Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Chopin Scherzo 2 Can't reach notes

I agree, and it's also a non sequitur.

I don't agree, quod est demonstrandum

You don't agree with what?

That it's a non sequitur.

Well, I disagree that it isn't a non sequitur (what?) - look back to his original post. We're discussing specifically the chords in the scherzi. I don't see where the preludes come into it.

Sorry dolce, but it was a non sequitur.

Thank you for your inquiry. Okay, I will make a few suggestions.

First, I assume that you can play an octave comfortably in your left hand. And if you cannot, you do not have any business playing this piece.

Second, if you can, first play the octave, and then place your hand in your lap. The octave, as all following notes, should be played with arm weight alone. Do not push down on a key.

Next, in a quick arm weight/lap motion (relaxed!), play the octave adding the next note of the chord, using a staccato strike (hand in lap after each additional note). Do this until you fill out the chord.

Finally, then you repeat this exercise (arm weight alone!) using a non-staccato strike, remembering to strike and release with your hand ending in your lap after each note.

After that, (I couldn't resist) it is perfectly permissible to roll the entire chord, left and right hand together. You can also roll the left hand, and then play the right hand as a block chord, as instructed by Leschetizky (Malwine Bree, 1903).

Regardless of what Mikuli, supposedly wrote. Most pianists of the day (19th century) did just exactly that.

I usually ignore these comments, but I can't allow you to perpetrate such glaring misinformation about this piece. Rolling that chord destroys the music.

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Thank you for your inquiry. Okay, I will make a few suggestions.

First, I assume that you can play an octave comfortably in your left hand. And if you cannot, you do not have any business playing this piece.

[/quote]


Come off it, get over yourself. Honestly, the OP just wants a solution, possibly isn't a professional pianist (if the OP was, the OP wouldn't be asking for suggestions here) and thus I guess the OP is playing for his/her own enjoyment. Don't kill it. You don't own the piece.

While I typically agree that, if someone wants to try a piece for enjoyment, they should be able to do so without fear of reprisal, there is another concern. If the person is obsessive and spends large amounts of time on a piece they can't possibly reach, and if their technique suffers (as cause or result), then there is the potential for injury. So, while I firmly believe that if you want to play a piece, you should give it a shot, there are some things to be mindful of that may not surface for months or even years.

Yup, I agree Derelux, but that's a different matter than someone else saying 'you do not have any business playing this piece', which is a harsh statement.

I wouldn't recommend the amateur to jump in playing Chopin Etudes or Rachmaninoff Preludes without first gaining the necessary souplesse in the hands to pull them off, not as a matter of business or right, but to prevent injury and because it will be a far more rewarding and enjoyable experience.

I've seen too many people - some of my own pupils - end gaining, and with terrible results. My advanced pupils have asked me 'is it REALLY necessary to practise in this way?' meaning, is it really necessary to practise in a way that means you are paying attention to every single movement you make in order that you have the physical equipment to play the piece. My answer is always yes, if you want to play well, this is necessary, and it's going to be far quicker for you to do it this way than to hack away at it and get it sort of right and never really be able to play it.

People get so impatient, that's a problem, and that impatience leads not only to bad playing but to injury, and desensitizes the ear to poor tone.

I am not a fan of harsh black/white statements, either. There's usually a lot of ground between the two extremes.

I don't like non sequiturs, I don't like statements that are so rock-solid that they don't allow any counterreactions, I don't like narcism, I don't like things/people/thoughts that don't move, I love music, that's the one and only artform that excludes all the above mentioned not-likes, it moves, from one point of view to the other, from one moment, nay, second, to the other, from centuries ago to now and tomorrow, let's keep it moving.

Exactly. No good teacher would phrase things that way to a enthusiastic amateur when the same result can be accomplished with different phrasing.

When I was in high school my piano teacher took me to hear Rubinstein play at Carnegie Hall. I heard Chopin's Ballade No.4 for the first time, liked it, and not having the slightest idea how difficult it was asked my teacher if I could learn it. Although I don't remember what he said and didn't study that piece, I know he just didn't respond in a way that indicated it was a ridiculous question. A few years later I asked my college piano teacher if I could learn the Goldberg Variation, again not having the slightest how difficult they were. Although that was 50 years ago, I actually do remember what he said: "Oh, you can study that by yourself if you want to but we will continue learning pieces from the WTC."