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#223363 08/08/07 04:12 PM
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Here's a locally-for-sale instrument (i.e. one I can readily try out):

"Pro-Series Baldwin Grand. This piano is in remarkable original condition. A piano with relatively few hours of playing on it!!! We will put a new "Pure Ebony Gloss" finish on it, regild the plate, new keytops. It needs nothing else."

Yes, of course I'd hire a tech to go with me but your comments are always valued. The seller asks $6500 for it, and I've just seen it advertised at an Atlanta shop for $17,000. Is anyone familiar with the model?


Yamaha C1 6231705
My other piano is a harpsichord.
#223364 08/08/07 04:15 PM
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Oh, the serial number is 63314, the seller says built in 1933.


Yamaha C1 6231705
My other piano is a harpsichord.
#223365 08/08/07 11:16 PM
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The Model G was one of Baldwin's first designs, a 5'4" baby grand. This would probably be one of its last production years.
You'll really have to have a tech look at it.
$6,500 souhds like a lot for a 73 year old piano.
On the other hand, there are plenty of posters on this forum who can attest to the durability of their Baldwin Model E's, etc.
It hardly seems possible that it only needs new keytops and a regilded plate.
Even the most well-preserved instruments of that vintage will likely need new strings, hammers, action, damper felts, etc., etc.
The tech will tell the tale.


Musical amateur with no professional pretensions or affiliations
#223366 08/09/07 09:27 AM
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If I'm not mistaken, the Baldwin "G" was 5'6" and is a predessesor of the modern "R" which is 5'8" though it's been a few years since we restored one. The "G" has the same bass string scale as the "R" though the shorter case. It had more of a vintage look with the boston fallboard, side molding and the framed music leaf. It looked vintage I guess because it was vintage.
They were a little more difficult to restore in that you had to use a universal style wippen which altered the action geometry from its original unavailable parts from Baldwin. I think we used Tokiwa shanks,flanges and wippens but used Renner Premium Blues as for Hammers. Touchweight was an issue with this restoration.
73 year old Baldwin G is definitely not gonna play like a new piano though to some it might be acceptable "as is" with minimal life left. I gotta watch what I say with John Pels around, eating to much crow lately.
Its very odd that a veteran piano professional would perform a high gloss finish on this piano which would cost between 5-10K dependng on the material (lacquer,polyurethane acrylic or polyester)but is gonna just put new keytops which would run $200 max and than reguild the plate which implies to me he is gonna tape off the top end and spray the plate without restringing it or addressing the soundboard,agraffees,bridges and the remainder of the top end.
A professional would put the $ into the internals
(action & top end) in preparing for resale.
This piano is worth $1000 max, the remainder of $ should be invested in the rebuild.


www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
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Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
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#223367 08/09/07 12:27 PM
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PB, I thought that the M and G shared the same stringing scale, but the M is 5'2". I did find a model G listed in an older (1961) stringing scale book as indeed being 5'6" though. The last vintage Baldwin that I restored was a while back and I sourced the wippens from Baldwin.That was a model H which was a predecessor to the R at 5'8". I know that Renner lists a vintage Baldwin wippen (913051). I was sort of assuming that this would work, as I have one of my college profs pianos in for service which is a 1909 Baldwin 6'2". I was hoping to not be playing geometry games with this instrument as she's a real player.

My impression from what Clav has said, is that at that price it would be a very good deal, but that assumes that everything represented was indeed accomplished. I made the assumption that if the plate was going to be resprayed, that the piano would be re-strung, new pinblock etc. I guess what really needs to happen, is that everything promised needs to be itemized. In that way, we can better inform Clav of what value is actually being added. The aforementioned model H continues to be one of the best playing pianos that I ever restored. The hammers were sourced through Baldwin as well, and I can assure you that there were no touchweight issues with that instrument. Baldwin hammers notwithstanding, I shaped and lightened all of the hammers though. The production date was 1925.In fact, after it was delivered, my student went to the Baldwin dealer and could find not one piano on the floor that even came close to playing as well.

The high tech finish would be somewhat problematic if you were doing a natural wood finish. If it were black, it would be less of a problem. Materials are more expensive, but with a high-build primer, you will find that time is actually saved vs. a lacquer finish. In fact if you choose to do a lacquer finish on top of the high build primer it will likewise save time. Another tech friend and myself restored a vintage M&H and applied an acrylic urethane finish. It looked awesome, but was so labor intensive, I would not do it again. And as far as that goes, I didn't think that it was appropriate on a vintage model A.

Clav, we need more info!

#223368 08/09/07 04:29 PM
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Hey John,Clav said the seller said it was in remarkable original condition which means...... plus the seller spelled reguild wrong (regild)How can you assume anything if he can't spell it. Let's trash this seller! All in fun!I have'nt had breakfast yet. Crow Mcmuffin sounds appetizing !
We do high gloss urethane acrylic(PPG base coat clear coat) and polyester. Urethane I find on wood takes a long time to harden(months) Easy to scratch but easy to buff out scratches. It is car paint and maybe dries faster on metal being outside etc. You're right, many refinishers would rather use polyester primer even though more expensive, it dries faster and doesn't drop like lacquer and sealer and it saves time. Labor intensive means more $. High gloss shows everything (black car) Hand rubbed finish has less reflection therefore more forgiving. In conclusion why is one gonna subject himself to this high gloss ordeal on a piano, people would expect to be a hand rubbed satin finish. Steinway appointment,gotta go! High gloss black Steinway M as a matter of fact!


www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE
#223369 08/09/07 08:28 PM
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gild 1 |gɪld| verb [ trans. ] cover thinly with gold.

Pianobroker is the one who cannot spell "regild"!


Semipro Tech
#223370 08/09/07 09:04 PM
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Oh oh.....


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
#223371 08/10/07 12:06 AM
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Man, I gotta eat crow for lunch again!
I gotta change that spelling error on 104 Steinway grand descriptions. Bummer! I wonder if anyone will notice


www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE
#223372 08/10/07 02:54 AM
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PB, we are talking the same refinish products. I spent my ill spent youth restoring sports-cars during the summers, and when I got into piano refinishing, used the same products. The acrylic urethane I was referring to was Deltron at the time, and is now "Concept." The materials are expensive, but labor is saved especially on black. It looks good on Jaguar and Lotus dashboards as well. To sufficiently trash another seller though, we need more info...you know...just enough to hang em!!

#223373 08/10/07 06:41 AM
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Quote
I gotta change that spelling error on 104 Steinway grand descriptions. Bummer! I wonder if anyone will notice
Broker,

No worries. They're Steinwuay people!


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#223374 08/10/07 06:38 PM
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I don't post much (I tend to listen more than talk, read more than write, etc.) but be assured I read what you all take the time to write. And the humor throughout PW is great fun!


Yamaha C1 6231705
My other piano is a harpsichord.
#223375 08/10/07 06:48 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by pianobroker:
Man, I gotta eat crow for lunch again!
I gotta change that spelling error on 104 Steinway grand descriptions. Bummer! I wonder if anyone will notice
There is nothing more painful than being hoisted on one's own petard.

And we've all been there.

Ouch.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'

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