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I remember someone once posting here about the Symetrigrand.

If anyone's interested I noticed one for sale on Craigslist:

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/msg/5829639901.html

Disclaimer: I have no personal interest in this sale.

We have rebuilt several of these pianos, and interestingly, the original Mason design for this style of piano (Richard Gertz, 1902) called for a 6'2" cabinet. Many of the benefits of the symmetrical shape come to a fuller fruition n that size of piano.

The later 4' 11" symmetrical designs (like this one) are still very cool in style. Thank you for sharing.

Rich,
What would be the benefits to shaping the case of a grand like this?

Is the Mason butterfly grand the same as a Symmetrigrand but with the lid cut in half and two prop sticks?

hoechst interessant. thanks for posting it. the design did remind me of the 'butterfly grands' that were around in the early part of the 20th cent., didn't know that m & h ever made one. by no means an expert in designs, but this shorter variation didn't quite look like a richard gertz design just going by the plate. but his pianos have a blunter, wider end than many other grands so this just takes the notion a bit further.

In the 1860s, Blüthner made some symmetrical concert grands. These were known I think as "Glocken Flügel" because of their bell-like shape. No. 2451 was one of five instruments (nos. 2449 to 2453) for the City Hall in Leipzig.





Here is no. 4429:







And here is an especially elegant art-case instrument, presumably specially made as No. 5000:

Apology for my ignorance: is there any (dis)advantage to symmetrical concert grands, in terms of sound, scale, or others?

Any advantages or disadvantages would probably be minuscule. After all, just about every vertical piano is symmetrical.

What is really hard to grasp is the way that people would build enormous projects as experiments in those days.

Does that mean the bass strings have to be angled even more sharply than in a 'conventional' piano?

Seems to me that one disadvantage would be less soundboard area for a given length (assuming that a larger soundboard is always desirable), unless you compensate enough on the treble side. However for a short grand I would see an advantage in allowing slightly longer bass strings for a given overall length due to the increased string angle (which was the rationale behind the Astin Weight grand's design).

Funny you ask, ''cause I sort of expected to see the split lid.

Thanks for the pictures, David-G! It is a nice style, aesthetically speaking.

In terms of a downside, I wonder if they're harder to transport, since the case doesn't have the usual long flat side.

Most of the Sym. Grands made by Mason were built by The American Piano Company, or Aeolian. Their reason for making them ( and they were also available under the Knabe and Chickering names) was a design issue. They could fit into the same space as an upright if it were placed in a corner diagonally. I have seen an old ad or two that showed this.

However, the idea, original plans, (I should scan a copy of the Gertz sketches. I have them somewhere) and the first American Sym. Grands built were larger.

By the way, Gertz did not invent this idea, nor did Bluthner, or any of the early European makers, like Graf or Streicher (both of whom built symmetrical designs).

The earliest symmetrical keyboard instrument I have ever seen resides in the Ancient Musical Instrument Museum in Vienna. It was built in the late 1600's for Emperor Leopold I and is actually plucked. The maker, Kaiser, called it a Clavicytherium.

Here is a stock photo i found of it:
[img]http://cdn-2-wdh.habsburger.net/fil...._jahrhundert_original.jpg?itok=JVPIkFt1[/img]

The stringing looked very delicate - more like violin strings than wire.

I was also dying to open this thing up and see how the action dealt with plucking strings that in some cases were very far from the keys that operated them. Unfortunately, the instruments could not be played or touched by visitors.