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Hello everyone

I find my 5yo Yamaha Clavinova keys to be somewhat heavy/stiff. A simple coin test shows ~88g for middle C.
I find it very hard to play anything fast or repetitive, like for example 'Rage over the lost penny' by Beethoven: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQsay5mL1n4
The left hand will exhaust me in seconds. I've tried wrist technique, but my wrist alone does not have enough power to push a chord all the way down.
I measured another clavinova, using coins, and I *think* that the weight is the same, BUT I felt a lot of difference, the keys felt stiff just in my piano.

So to my questions,
1. Is that possible that two pianos which shows the same weight in coin test, will still feel very different? I wonder if it is just me, or I just have a bad technique, I don't know. I just feel it is impossible to play anything articulated/fast in my piano.
2. What can be done, in Yamaha clavinova, to make the keyboard 'lighter'?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks

I was seriously considering the purchase of a CLP 535 since they are so cheap at the moment, 'till they're all gone. The keys are heavy compared to my Roland, but I found I could play fast passages easily enough as long as I gave it the weight.
Consequently, i too would run out of steam, so i had a rethink about the buy.
I didn't!
I can easily fly through some easy fast passages on the Roland, but lightly. And it doesn't sap your energy. Must be some technique or other, since I'd been trying and failing; failing and trying for ages.
Others will offer better advice, but it may be time for a change . . ..certainly it'll be interesting to hear what others say about this. Good luck . . . .

Maybe it's time for a lube job. Mine seems to need it every year or two.

It's hard to say, but chances are there is some work on your technique you can do.

How loud is your volume? You should have it set to about 75-80% (less with headphones). If it's not loud enough, you will usually end up playing heavier than needed to get the desired volume.

Have you played that Beethoven on other digitals and acoustics to see if you still have issues?

Explore these a bit before concluding that you need a new instrument.

I don't think that the volume is an issue, but anyway I play with headphone at about 50%.
This Beethoven piece is just an example, every fast passage is very hard to play.
And as I've said in the post, I've compared with the same model as mine, and mine felt heavier/stiffer. So I assume it is a problem in my own keyboard. I also think that releasing a key is actually what makes the stiff feeling, not just pressing it.
So any ideas are welcome, I can disassemble the keyboard if necessary

Normally yamaha has a very light key action. Strange.

Eh?
The Clavnovas generally have a very heavy action. Even when new, unworn.
Much heavier than the Rolands I tried.

I do own a Yamaha Clavinova, model CVP509. Usually I feel a difference when I change a setting under the function button, probably somewhere
under 'controller', but I'm not sure and don't know if that function is available for every model.


For repeated chords you could take a look at youtube videos by Graham Fitch. I think he mentioned for repeated chords something like
a wipe forward movement otherwise it will sound ugly.
I don't know what you mean by "wrist" technique where you use only your wrist?

Yes I mean using only the wrist. I don't know a function which related to this in my CLP 430. Only the touch sensitivity (soft, hard, medium, fixed) - but it is useless.
Seen the video, and many others, yet I feel my keyboard is simply too heavy. Maybe I should just check more pianos.

I must be misunderstanding something here; you surely don't mean if moving exclusively from your wrist, you literally cannot push the notes all the way down?? Even someone who has never touched a piano or seen the inside of a gym can do that (as one-off, i.e. on a single chord in isolation) on even the heaviest piano action; the touch weight of a piano key varies considerably but is on average around 50g. If you really can't push them down with your wrist on your piano, and in particular if you *can* do that on another piano (including another Clavinova), then I would suggest a fault of some sort with yours.

In my opinion, Clavinovas, or at the least the 5xx series ones that I've tested, have excessively strong resistance part way as the hammer is throw up, but then somewhat collapse in the lower part of the movement. I would imagine the hammer mechanism would be where any problems of excessive resistance would occur. The key presses are also remarkably consistent across the keyboard (leaving aside the intention grading) on Clavinovas, so that's something else to check (hammer problems seem highly unlikely to occur everywhere).

My friend had similar issues with his Clavinova, we changed the "Touch Sensitivity" setting and he's much happier now, it made it feel much lighter to play. (I forget exactly the name of the setting but it's in the manual.

The top model Clavinovas have counter weights in the keys, presumably to reduce the high initial inertia of the GH/GH3 derived Yamaha actions (whether wood or not).

You described exactly the issue. With my wrist alone, I can't push a chord all the way down, so I it doesn't produce a decent sound.

And as I've said, the 'Touch sensitivity' setting is useless, every value which is not 'normal' will make it hard to play with good dynamics

I disassembled the keyboard and I see white grease bellow some keys, maybe it's related to the issue? Bellow the key there are yellow weights, and they seem to be very heavy. The keys seems fine.

You need arm weight, not wrist weight. Movement of the wrist is a part of it, but if you need more power that's not what you use. Fo the Beethoven LH, I'd be using less wrist, actually. The wrist is a shock-absorber, not the thing that gives power, but reduces the stress of the weight once the sound has been produced.

I actually enjoy the 'heaviness' of the Clavinovas, but if you are still having problems first check other pianos, and if the problem still exists, then it might be your technique. I would suggest getting a good teacher to test your clavinova and compare with others and see if it is the action, or actually the way you're doing it... Even if you past the advanced level and can play this kind of stuff, it's nice to be heard and seen by someone else.

Sometimes even when I think I'm playing okay, I might be using too much tension - even if doesn't actually hurts me. This is why I still get to play to my old piano teachers as well as my piano professor at University. We have Kawai's digital pianos (CN line) in the Group Piano Lab, which are so soft that most of my classmates use the setting on Heavy and quite literally bang around the keyboard - I use on light but because sometimes when playing with the Heavy setting I get to use force and not weight or lose control on weight transfer and after I find troubling to go to our Steinways - this is my problem with every light action I get to play, weight transfer on those is a pain in the soul. This is a part of why I prefer heavier actions - I feel more comfortable with them and not afraid of letting the weight rest on the bottom of the keys depending on what I am playing.

And I'm with Morodiene on wrist. My Piano Professor always emphasize how wrists should be supple and very light in feeling (to contrast tight, heavy), they absorb shock and make small adjustments to help finger action on weight transfer, try to use your weight from the forearm and arm. Being supple in the wrists means that you're not building up tension on the forearm muscles, and coordinating better... and this can be done in any action - although I prefer to do it on heavier actions.

I did compared it with the same model as mine, and my keys are simply way more stiff. Even other heavy keys which I tried did not exhaust me like my own keyboard. So at least I'm fairly sure it is my keyboard, not (just) me. Even though the keys might weight the same, it seems there is some friction, weird resistance in my keys.. : (

So, it's time for a keyboard service on your Clavinova. Playing MUST NOT be painful, or stressful at any given chance. You cannot risk your body apparatus at any cost. If you are a tech geek, like opening stuff and like trying new stuff there might be a service manual out there, but I don't recommend doing that unless you're very sure of what you are doing or at least are a professional in doing technical services on digital keyboards. I don't have a clue on what might be causing this havier feeling. Might be friction, but not only friction. How old is your clavinova? I heard that you have to exchange the felts from time to time. Have you ever replaced the felts?

I have that problem every year or two. The keys need lubrication. (Just a few keys need it, but I lube them all.)

Could you please elaborate more? I've already opened the keys and removed some. I see there is some white grease there, not on the keys themselves, mostly bellow the keys. So how is that related to the weight of the keys?


My Clavinova is around 5 years old. I don't think I risk anything, I know my limits, some pain happens occasionally but not something serious. And for the felts, as I see inside, I think they are there to absorb the key hammer action noise.The keys "rest" on the felt strip. I don't think that's my problem here.

Would've thunk that wear and tear at the pivot would make the action faster . . . .looser, . . bit noisier maybe. Where and why should grease come into it? Maybe that induces swelling in the plastic . . . .