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Hi, I just received my piano and have been playing it for a few hours.

While I recalled that you mentioned about the break-in period, I do find that some of my keys are weirdly soft, or muffled when playing. I can't really put the right words to it. There were instances were I felt weird when pressing 2 or more keys sounded the same volume level as just 1 key, and times where I feel that certain keys weren't expressed correctly.

I can't tell if it is me not being used to the instrument, or if the sound made through the speakers during real time playing is not the "full" sound due to the break-in period. However, when I tried playing some classical music through the built-in music list, it sounded much better and sounded like the speakers were alive, closer to my memory of when I tried it in store.

If it helps, my CA99 is set pretty far away from the wall, >1m from it, and I was using the SK-EX Rendering.

Have cycled through some settings while I tried to get the sound to sound alive: Wall: Off/Wall1/Wall2, Open3/2/1, Closed/1/2, Ambient Off/Natural/Small/Medium/Large Room. Doesn't seem like these help much in figuring out this disparity.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
If this is a new piano then contact your dealer for a remedy.
You need not care whether this is a software problem or a hardware problem. It's simply a problem and Kawai owes you a fix or a replacement or a refund.
Originally Posted by xchen
Just got my CA79, beautiful instrument and wonderful action, but unfortunately I am plagued by the buzzing sound coming from the left speakers. I've read through almost every post on this thread and it seems that it is unclear whether this is a software or hardware issue, and that the beta firmware does not alleviate the problem. Furthermore I've seen several instances where techs from Kawai come and troubleshoot and/or replace parts with no success. To be candid I expect better from a 4000 dollar instrument, and I'm not going to be satisfied with workarounds involving changing the tone of the instrument and "just wait for a firmware update," especially since all of the proposed solutions do not seem to completely solve the problem and it's still plenty audible at full volume. Has anyone had success getting a refund due to this issue?

Thanks, that does seem to be the logical course of action. I've contacted my dealer and they are going to reach out to Kawai for next steps. It is intereting to me that for such a widespread issue, the dealer has not heard of it.

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Hello avss01,

I'm glad to read that your CA99EP has arrived problem free, and that you were well looked after by your dealer.

Regarding the UI concerns, I believe the points that you raise have been mentioned by one or two other CA99/CA79 customers, but I will pass on this feedback to the development team for their consideration.

I gather that a number of UI improvements and fixes are in development, however I'm afraid I cannot provide any concrete release schedule.

Thank you in advance for your patience.

Kind regards,
James
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Hello Cactus7,

Originally Posted by Cactus7
Could someone please, who downloaded the LCD(1.06) and SYS(1.08) software some month ago do a binary comparison to the software which is currently available on the Kawai website?

The LCD and SYS files have not changed since originally being uploaded.

I believe the reason some users report hearing noise and others do not, is likely because some people have more sensitive hearing than others. It's possible that the noise is caused by hardware (e.g. a defective speaker, or a loose screw/panel).

Kind regards,
James
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello Cactus7,

Originally Posted by Cactus7
Could someone please, who downloaded the LCD(1.06) and SYS(1.08) software some month ago do a binary comparison to the software which is currently available on the Kawai website?

The LCD and SYS files have not changed since originally being uploaded.

I believe the reason some users report hearing noise and others do not, is likely because some people have more sensitive hearing than others. It's possible that the noise is caused by hardware (e.g. a defective speaker, or a loose screw/panel).

Kind regards,
James
x

Thank you Kawai James for the information about the software provided on the Kawai web site.

What about the currently produced CA79/99. Are they getting equipped with the software released in April or with the recently modified version?

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Originally Posted by Cactus7
What about the currently produced CA79/99. Are they getting equipped with the software released in April or with the recently modified version?

I have a new CA79 and it came with the April version.


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Originally Posted by Cactus7
What about the currently produced CA79/99. Are they getting equipped with the software released in April or with the recently modified version?

To my knowledge, new CA99/CA79 models are shipping with the April software.

When R&D issues a software update to the factory, the files are typically uploaded to the Kawai Global site a few days later.

Kind regards,
James
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Originally Posted by xchen
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
If this is a new piano then contact your dealer for a remedy.
You need not care whether this is a software problem or a hardware problem. It's simply a problem and Kawai owes you a fix or a replacement or a refund.
Originally Posted by xchen
Just got my CA79, beautiful instrument and wonderful action, but unfortunately I am plagued by the buzzing sound coming from the left speakers. I've read through almost every post on this thread and it seems that it is unclear whether this is a software or hardware issue, and that the beta firmware does not alleviate the problem. Furthermore I've seen several instances where techs from Kawai come and troubleshoot and/or replace parts with no success. To be candid I expect better from a 4000 dollar instrument, and I'm not going to be satisfied with workarounds involving changing the tone of the instrument and "just wait for a firmware update," especially since all of the proposed solutions do not seem to completely solve the problem and it's still plenty audible at full volume. Has anyone had success getting a refund due to this issue?

Thanks, that does seem to be the logical course of action. I've contacted my dealer and they are going to reach out to Kawai for next steps. It is intereting to me that for such a widespread issue, the dealer has not heard of it.


Yep, you may have seen my posts already but I got my CA 79 like 2 weeks ago and I got the same left speaker buzzing problem. Its super annoying and very sad that I spent nearly 5k for this CA79. The firmware update helped like 80% of the buzzing, you can still hear it at max volume but I wouldn't play at that volume anyways. I don't know if I can tell if there is a tone difference since I am not a professional. I also don't like the way my speakers sound. I asked my dealer if there was someway I can exchange up to a CA99. Hopefully there won't be problems there if it happens. But yeah xchen, really sorry you have this problem too. Its really disappointing.

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Hey, hey, hey: Will you please stop it? My piano started having this buzzing problem too... last night... in my dream!

This is haunting me. Arrgh! :-)


at home: Kawai MP11SE; Yamaha LG800; Yamaha HS7; Ultimate MS-100B; Sennheiser HD558 | office: MP7SE; K&M 18820; Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro

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Hi!

Are you using HD650 without any additional headphone amp?

I’m interested in buying either the 600 or 660 to have with my CA99 and want to know if the pianos headphone amp is sufficient to drive a pair of high quality cans without any additional gear.


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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello Jeff,

Originally Posted by Jeff L.
I set the startup instrument option to "Power Off", pick the harpiscord, play a few notes, then turn it off. I turn it back on and it plays the SK-EX piano sound until the UI fully initializes and then it switches to harpiscord. But the UI still shows the SK-EX piano screen.

Ah, I see. Thank you for the additional information.

Originally Posted by Jeff L.
Maybe that's because I have my startup screen to show the piano menu...

Yes, that's the reason - using a Sound mode sound as the default startup sound, but using the Piano mode screen as the default startup screen. This UI-related mismatch bug has been reported by one or two other customers and logged with R&D. It should be fixed with the next software update. In the meantime, it should still be possible to select the preferred Warm Grand sound from the Piano screen (swipe the preferred Piano, then open the piano editor and select the variation). If the Startup Setting is still set to "Power Off", the instrument should store this sound as the default, re-select it when starting up, *and* show the correct screen.

Kind regards,
James
x

It is good that the UI-related mismatch bug will be fixed.



Originally Posted by Jeff L.
Originally Posted by kailord
I'm almost getting a CA79 but hesitating due to some of the UI issues. Starting up piano, based on various posts, it sounds like it's safe to start playing immediately but the sound might switch to the previously saved one after full bootup is complete in about 20+ seconds. Won't damage the piano. Is that right ?

The touch screen regions aren't easy to use so often u hit a setting u don't meant to hit.

Any other peeves?

That is correct. A few seconds after pushing the power button, you get the SK-EX piano sound until full boot-up a minute later, then it changes to the startup sound you set it to use.

I wouldn't worry about the UI on the CA79. It is a version 1 UI/touch screen, that's for sure, but mostly, I play piano, I don't play the touch screen. So it works well enough even if it's not perfect, plus they can fix a lot of it as time goes on.

It's an amazing keyboard, really, it's a joy to play. My only regret is that I couldn't afford the CA99.

Will this bug also be fixed? I would consider it as a bug because of the following possible scenario:

-> You select your prefered settings (instrument type, sound settings etc.)
-> You select as Startup Setting "Current" or "Power Off"
-> In most of the cases you switch your piano on and after a view seconds the sound system is ready and you start playing
-> Half a minute later, when the LCD system is started, suddenly the instrument type or sound setting changes while you are playing

I think this behaviour can be eliminated, if all settings are stored in the sound system and not in the LCD system.

How is the current behaviour? Are all settings stored in the LCD system, or are some settings not stored at all?

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My CA79 has finally arrived. I've spent hours having fun with it, blasting music to burn in the speakers, configuring piano sound settings, and actually playing it.

The key action is as awesome as I'd remembered. The black keys aren't as heavily textured as I thought. The default SK-EX Classic/Classic2 sound (rendering engine) however is way too mellow for my taste (I don't remember any of the SK (5-7 ft?) acoustic pianos I tried recently sounding like this). SK-EX is known to be a wee bit more mellow than the competitions, as can be heard in recordings (e.g. on youtube) compared to other brands like Yamaha/Steinway, but nothing like from these CA79 speakers. Don't worry, if you're like me, keep on reading for how I "voiced" my Kawai CA79 to sound more like Kawai acoustic grands.

The C3-G4 range is quite recessed in general, so I select "Mid Boost" under Speaker/Headphone>Tone Control. Speaker Volume is changed from Normal to Low, and the physical Volume knob can either be set at maximum (in order to get the same sound level and dynamic range as an acoustic baby grand), or just a tad below maximum (0.5-1 notch down) for a more comfortable volume for longer practice.

Here are my custom piano sounds I've managed to use to turn my digital CA79 piano to really sound like an acoustic grand piano. I welcome your critique and input to further refine them.

SK-EX Rendering
Type: Rich
Ambience: Small Room
Virtual Technician settings ---
Voicing: Bright 1
Topboard: Open1
Half pedal: 3

EX
Type: Pop Grand
Reverb: Room
Virtual Technician settings ---
Touch curve: Heavy 1
Topboard: Open1
Half pedal: 3

SK-EX Rendering
Type: Full
Ambience: Small Room
Virtual Technician settings ---
Voicing: Bright 1
Topboard: Open2
Half pedal: 3

The first piano, SK-EX Rich, is as the name implies, has a rich (resonant) sound, the more mellow out of the three albeit voiced to be brighter, great for classical pieces (an all-rounder).

The second piano, EX Pop Grand, has a more V-shaped sound, bassy and bright, and yet mids not recessed like many other piano sounds. The default Pop Grand volume is louder than other pianos for some reason, so Touch curve is set to Heavy 1 to compensate for that.

The third piano, SK-EX Full, is a brighter and slightly bassier version of the first piano (SK-EX Rich), not as bassy as the second (EX Pop Grand).

The topboard is also used to control how bright the pianos sound where half-opening (closing it more) would dull the treble ever so slightly. Personally speaking, I prefer to have a clearer midrange without having the treble sound too sibilant. I wish I could control the brightness more finely (i.e. more than 2 levels). Ambience/reverb is set to personal preference and real room size (medium living room). Too little or too much reverb is unrealistic. I probably wouldn't go higher than Studio (ambience) or Lounge (reverb) unless your room is actually the size of a hall.

Half pedal set at the original 5 means I could easily miss the sustain. Either the sustain pedal is stiffer than I'm used to or I've always half-pedaled a lot of my playing in the past (using an acoustic grand). So half pedal was lowered to 3.

If anyone wants to emulate that extra vibration from the CA99 with your CA79, EX Pop Grand is the sound for you. Nevertheless, it does suffer from slightly hollow sounding bass notes.

Now I have three pianos that are sonally distinct to choose from. I plan to add another slightly more mellow sound, perhaps another one with non-ET temperament such as Werckmeister/Kirnberger, and some other funky piano sounds. I have yet to mess with user-defined tone control (EQing), but given I have to delete the old user-define sounds to add slightly changed new ones, it is a lot of work. It's hard to believe Kawai hasn't released any update to the firmware since April. Software development should be incremental, either the new update might have a lot of bugs if they tried to implement too many changes at once or they aren't which would be really disappointing.

The key noise is reasonably minimal. I haven't heard any noise from the bass notes yet. However, I did start hearing some strange resonance testing the SK-EX rendering sounds (too briefly before I had to switch it off), which I will investigate further tomorrow. I suspect it's coming from the samples rather than the speakers.

Last edited by deadlymajesty; 12/19/20 10:33 AM.
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@deadlymajesty,

Can you describe the room where your piano is located? My living room has a bare hardwood floor, and is rather closed in with a high vaulted ceiling. I haven't had a chance for in-depth tweaking, but my inclination for this room is to turn off all ambiance and reverb. Is your piano on a carpeted floor? I'm guessing the floor and room would make a difference.


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No carpet or hardwood flooring at all. High-rise apartment building, concrete walls (& ceiling) with no wallpaper and only a thin layer of wall paint (repainted after removing the original filler and without adding back any filler). Medium-height ceiling (about 2.5m), the whole floor is tiled which is probably ceramic. The floor is also concrete beneath the tiles.

I would listen to the decay (reverb) of each ambience/reverb type after hitting and releasing the notes. My theory is since we don't actually have the physical grand piano to reproduce the reverb naturally, no reverb would be like playing a piano in a semi-anechoic chamber (basically miked directly from the strings, aka close-miked) unless the digital piano is housed in a grand piano shell and speakers positioned to emulate how the sound is produced from the strings so that we could let our room be the main reverberator.

Obviously, our room will certainly introduce additional reverb, but since we are listening so close to the speakers, I'm not sure that would really make that much difference. The reason for selecting larger room reverb types for actually being in a larger room is merely psychological. We expect bigger rooms to produce more reverb. There's no reason why you can't pick concert hall even if you use it in a small bedroom if you simply want to feel like a concert pianist (or you're actually rehearsing for your concert and need it to sound similar to when you finally play in a concert hall).

Turning off reverb completely seems to produce a less complex sound (less resonance), perhaps a cleaner sound if you prefer that. But the decay after you hit the keys is almost non-existent. Just select whatever sounds reasonable to you. Close your eyes and imagine you're playing a grand piano (or open your eyes to feel if there's any disconnect between the sound and what you'd expect).

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Hi All.

Picked up a CA79 recently to replace a Casio PX series I wasn't using since it was about as inspiring as a brick. Was looking for an MP11SE in case I needed a spare portable board, but not easy to find in NZ.
I also use Nord for piano, clonewheel etc and Roland for other stuff........ moved away from Roland pianos after supernatural and V modelling which (IMHO) sound like they are trying to sound more like a piano than a piano does.

To be honest I wasn't expecting to like the Kawai as much as I did. Apart from the great action, the sample based modelling seems to get pretty close to the mark and the pianos breathe analogue goodness with the damper down. Like the EPs as well.

I would be happy to record with this ahead of the Nord, but horses for courses, the Nord dynamics and presence are great for cutting through in a live setting.

There are some significant development opportunities for features and UI and agree with all the suggestions previously made in the thread, particularly around user patch editing, naming (upper/lower case) etc.

I haven't experienced some of the other issues mentioned so much other than the occasional slight click from one or two keys when you haven't used it for a while.

Overall seems like a great instrument and looking forward to seeing the development potential.

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EX
Type: Standard
Reverb: Room
Virtual Technician settings ---
Voicing: Bright 1
Topboard: Open2
Half pedal: 3

I think I'll replace the EX Pop Grand (whose bass notes are a bit too echoey), with the EX standard with more conventional bass notes.

I now hear the metallic resonance (which could well be the noise everyone's talking about) from the SK-EX rendering, but not from EX or other piano sounds as far as I can tell. I haven't had time to check the non-rendering SK-EX sound yet. It is present even when resonance depth is turned to the lowest possible (1). I can consistently make it produce the metallic resonance by hitting E2 and E3 once in quick succession, and hold them down or use the sustain pedal. The "noise" comes after the initial attack, almost like reverb when you release the notes but without releasing the notes.

I have yet to test the CA79 with headphones, which I will in the coming days. It's a real shame that I probably have to set my default sound to be EX using the old sound engine since the new rendering engine and SK-EX do seem to produce the annoying resonance that we can't turn off or get rid of. I might actually have to try the beta firmware. I really thought I was immune. I wonder if I can get used to it over time.

Kawai really should investigate issue at the sample level or rendering engine level, instead of just a firmware that uses EQ to fix it. Or did they realise it's a hardware issue that they can't fix?

Why can't we change the default piano sound at startup to one of the presets so that it can be at least close to our custom sound when the piano finishes the full bootup sequence? Ideally, it would be nice to start with our custom sound after 5-10 seconds instead of waiting for almost a minute for it to load. This is another major quality of life improvement Kawai can implement for us.

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Originally Posted by deadlymajesty
I now hear the metallic resonance (which could well be the noise everyone's talking about) from the SK-EX rendering, but not from EX or other piano sounds as far as I can tell. I haven't had time to check the non-rendering SK-EX sound yet. It is present even when resonance depth is turned to the lowest possible (1). I can consistently make it produce the metallic resonance by hitting E2 and E3 once in quick succession, and hold them down or use the sustain pedal. The "noise" comes after the initial attack, almost like reverb when you release the notes but without releasing the notes.

I have yet to test the CA79 with headphones, which I will in the coming days. It's a real shame that I probably have to set my default sound to be EX using the old sound engine since the new rendering engine and SK-EX do seem to produce the annoying resonance that we can't turn off or get rid of. I might actually have to try the beta firmware.


The CA79 noise has been variously described as a buzzing, rattle, hiss, ringing, metallic. I'm fairly convinced that people are talking about at least 2 different issues, since one is low frequency and one high.

I think I hear the "metallic resonance" that you describe, equally in the speakers and headphones. However, I wouldn't call it "metallic", so in the following I'm maybe not describing what you're hearing. Please let me know.

I _do_ have the beta firmware installed. I'm told that the firmware EQ change affects high frequencies, not low, and speakers only, not headphones.

With volume fairly high or at maximum, if I strike E2 and E3 either together or slightly broken, I clearly hear what I would call a "ringing". It starts after the initial attack. I can hear it if I hold the keys down, but also if I hit a strong quick staccato attack and release (pedal NOT down).

The SK-EX is the most pronounced. The frequency of the ringing is B6.

The non-rendered SK-EX resonates at G#6 instead of B6.

The EX and SK5 ring at the frequency of G#6, but I don't hear it much if I hold the keys down (it blends in), but I do if I release right away.

The upright doesn't ring much at all.

Similarly, if I hit D#6 hard, it rings at D#7. The SK-EX the most, the others quite a bit less.

G2 and G3, struck hard staccato, rings more at G#6 than when I hit G#2 and G#3! That was a surprise.

Is any of this what you hear? I can't help thinking that most or all of what I've described is overtones and sympathetic vibrations from the piano they sampled. I don't have access to an acoustic piano, or the experience, to know what to expect.


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Hi RickM

Your observations are very interesting and detailed. As a CA99 owner I will admit that I have not deliberately pushed the volume to limits nor conducted many tests. At the volumes I play at, which is fairly quietly (the very reason I sold my acoustic upright complete with blankets stuffed between soundboard and wall, and the hammer rail adjusted closer to the strings and re-regulated action) I don’t hear any buzz or metallic ringing other than the actual types of resonances I would hear in my upright particularly with sustain pedal. I am more preoccupied with the UI issues.

I just wonder though, can anyone who is lucky enough to have access to an acoustic grand piano comment as to whether or not if you were to loudly and deliberately strike various notes and then stop and listen you do in fact hear all sorts of perhaps pleasant and not so pleasant overtones and ‘noises’? Because I certainly could in my upright. Could it actually be an incredibly realistic sample or less ideally just a poor sample or fault?

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@RickM

I'll check the specific notes you mentioned later.

I'm not so sure they are two separate issues. The cause may well be from bass notes, but the resultant resonance or overtone can be in the higher frequencies as you have specified.

It really sounds like a rattle, buzz, ringing or whatever, or as I prefer to call it, metallic resonance. Like striking an acoustic guitar's metal strings, and they produce a buzzing noise due to strings touching the frets (either top of fretboard too low or frets too high). I do suspect it's from the sampling and it could be more exaggerated than it should be, which would the result of processing or rendering or modeling, etc.

Remember we don't usually listen to the piano as close as how the piano is sampled using sensitive mics at close range.

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I don't hear it much if any using headphones, like others have reported. Nothing that would be out of the ordinary.

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