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Watching a rehearsal of the Prokofiev PC #2 at the Cliburn today I realized how much of the piece is written this way.

I could only think of two solo pieces where the entire piece is like this... Chopin's e flat minor Prelude and the last movement of his Sonata #2.

Can anyone think of some other pieces(solo or not)where the entire piano part is composed in this fashion?

How about pieces(solo or not)where major sections are composed this way(like the Prok No.2)?



Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/01/09 06:11 PM.
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Look at the second movement of Chopin's F minor Piano Concerto. Measures 42 through 72 are written entirely in unisons, an octave apart. Don't be mistaken, though, it doesn't make it any easier to play!

Regards,


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Wasn't there a thread about this very subject some time back? Seems like you were the OP, too. confused

Anyhow, I think Alkan wrote an etude along these lines, IIRC.

Ah, here it is:

Pieces written in unisons


Last edited by Horowitzian; 06/01/09 06:14 PM.

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Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Wasn't there a thread about this very subject some time back? Seems like you were the OP, too. confused
[...]Ah, here it is:
Pieces written in unisons


It's somewhat disheartening to think that pianoloverus doesn't read responses to his posts or that he has short-term memory problems. I thought the latter was reserved for those of my vintage, because I responded with the same response as the one I gave in October without remembering that I had already given it! Then, I was about to add the snippet about "Nights in the Gardens of Spain," and I see that I had already done that, too!

Let's drink to memory lapses!

Cheers!


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Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Wasn't there a thread about this very subject some time back? Seems like you were the OP, too. confused


I have no idea. I can't remember.

Aha, I see V. Horowitzian has given me the link. It's interesting the way the mind works. I don't mean the part where I had forgotten about my post last October, but both times the thought came to me while watching a performance. In October it was a live performance of one of the movements of the Vine Piano Sonata by one of our esteemed members.


I have NEVER had a memory lapse while performing.*







*because I have used the score for the last 20 years.


Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/01/09 06:41 PM.
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Wasn't there a thread about this very subject some time back? Seems like you were the OP, too. confused


I have no idea. I can't remember.

Aha, I see V. Horowitzian has given me the link. It's interesting the way the mind works. I don't mean the part where I had forgotten about my post last October, but both times the thought came to me while watching a performance. In October it was a live performance of one of the movements of the Vine Piano Sonata by one of our esteemed members.


I have NEVER had a memory lapse while performing.*







*because I have used the score for the last 20 years.



I had a memory lapse just the other night....WITH THE SCORE.
Danger: playing the piece from memory (because you always have) in a performance with the score in front of you for security reasons or whatever....and then I still blow it. I had been warned about this, mad


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Originally Posted by Barb860
[...]I had a memory lapse just the other night....WITH THE SCORE.
Danger: playing the piece from memory (because you always have) in a performance with the score in front of you for security reasons or whatever....and then I still blow it. I had been warned about this, mad


I sympathize with you. I've seen the following happen a couple of times, recently, usually with pianists with limited performance experience and still insecure in the work they are playing..

1) bring music to the piano
2) open the music on the music stand
3) begin playing with eyes riveted to the keyboard
4) have a memory lapse
5) forget (?) to look at the music (too terrified to look away from the keyboard?)
6) stumble, and try again, still not looking at the music
7) begin the piece again, from the beginning, still not looking at the music
8) etc.,
9) etc.,

I'm sure this wasn't your case, but your comment reminded me of this. What these people need to do, if a work is not solidly memorized, is to practice more reading from the music as they play rather than trying to play from memory.

Regards,


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Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Wasn't there a thread about this very subject some time back? Seems like you were the OP, too. confused



A while after that first thread was done, I remembered another piece with a lot of this kind of writing that I wished I had mentioned. But now I can't remember what it was! Arrghh!


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Rach 3 opening

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The start of Bach Toccata in D Minor BWV565.
Considered to be written for a small organ lacking in duplicate higher-octave stops, so the 'fullness' was to be added - manually.

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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Barb860
[...]I had a memory lapse just the other night....WITH THE SCORE.
Danger: playing the piece from memory (because you always have) in a performance with the score in front of you for security reasons or whatever....and then I still blow it. I had been warned about this, mad


I sympathize with you. I've seen the following happen a couple of times, recently, usually with pianists with limited performance experience and still insecure in the work they are playing..

1) bring music to the piano
2) open the music on the music stand
3) begin playing with eyes riveted to the keyboard
4) have a memory lapse
5) forget (?) to look at the music (too terrified to look away from the keyboard?)
6) stumble, and try again, still not looking at the music
7) begin the piece again, from the beginning, still not looking at the music
8) etc.,
9) etc.,

I'm sure this wasn't your case, but your comment reminded me of this. What these people need to do, if a work is not solidly memorized, is to practice more reading from the music as they play rather than trying to play from memory.

Regards,


This subject would make for a good thread of its own. But in response to you, I did have this piece memorized and know it well. However, I struggle with performance anxiety that I continue to (try) to work through. It can be debilitating for me. What I have been told is that you either play from memory or you don't, one or the other, don't put the music up there and expect to play the piece both ways. That said, you bring up solid points and I have also performed under those conditions as well. Perhaps there is a thread out there on this...


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I think what Bruce may mean is that it is important to practice playing and looking at the score more than one expects to if one has a piece memorized more or less or very well.

If one has a piece basically memorized (but uses the score so as not to worry about memory slips...as I do)but does not practice looking at the music much, than it can be hard to find one's place if one does want to refer to the music. I also practice the page turns and decide exactly where they'll be very carefully so I can avoid having to omit any notes during a clumsy page turn.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think what Bruce may mean is that it is important to practice playing and looking at the score more than one expects to if one has a piece memorized more or less or very well.

If one has a piece basically memorized (but uses the score so as not to worry about memory slips...as I do)but does not practice looking at the music much, than it can be hard to find one's place if one does want to refer to the music. I also practice the page turns and decide exactly where they'll be very carefully so I can avoid having to omit any notes during a clumsy page turn.

Exactly. If we plan to perform a piece using the score, we need to practice doing that. I did not and am mad because I knew this going in. I just....put the score up there anyway frown


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parts of the tchaikovsky piano concerto

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Shostakovitch concerto #2 1st mvmt.

(sorry to have gotten off topic before)


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Yes, as pianoloverus was saying - and contrary to what Barb860 was told - I believe that one can play it "both ways:" partly from memory and partly from the score. That is the way I perform most of the works that I currently perform - mostly from memory but with quick references to the score while playing.

The "trick" is to know the physical layout - the "geography" of the score very well. If you know that there are areas where you'll need to consult the score, then make sure you know exactly where and on what page those moments occur, so that your eyes can quickly find the spot when you need it. If you don't know that you're going to have a memory lapse, but might, then that's all the more reason to know exactly where on the page the music is that you are playing at every given moment in the piece.

This comes with practice at playing from the score. Even if your piece is almost completely memorized, playing it from the score will help with learning the score's "geography" and will also prevent, as a side benefit, from learning wrong notes, something that happens to those who think they have memorized a work and never consult the score subsequently.

Regards,


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Originally Posted by BruceD
Yes, as pianoloverus was saying - and contrary to what Barb860 was told - I believe that one can play it "both ways:" partly from memory and partly from the score. That is the way I perform most of the works that I currently perform - mostly from memory but with quick references to the score while playing.

The "trick" is to know the physical layout - the "geography" of the score very well. If you know that there are areas where you'll need to consult the score, then make sure you know exactly where and on what page those moments occur, so that your eyes can quickly find the spot when you need it. If you don't know that you're going to have a memory lapse, but might, then that's all the more reason to know exactly where on the page the music is that you are playing at every given moment in the piece.

This comes with practice at playing from the score. Even if your piece is almost completely memorized, playing it from the score will help with learning the score's "geography" and will also prevent, as a side benefit, from learning wrong notes, something that happens to those who think they have memorized a work and never consult the score subsequently.

Regards,





O.K. new thread on this topic coming up.


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There is another small piece in Chopin's Op. 28 besides #14 wherein a goodly portion is played in octave unisons. That is the recitativo-like #18 in F-Minor.


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There are a few measures in the middle of the 1st movement of Saint-Saëns piano concerto #2. Then it turns into octaves in both hands and it's hard not to get them entangled. frown

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Scriabin Preludes Op 11, No. 16


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