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I would really appreciate information which you technicians have about your experience with teflon in Steinway actions. Do the actions always start to rattle and make noise? Do they always have to be totally replaced? Is it possible to just replace the teflon with felt? Any other information you want to pass along will be appreciated.

Thanks. Ansley

The answer to each of your questions is no. However, if you are going to do other work to the piano, you should consider replacing the parts with teflon.

Rather than replace the parts with Teflon perhaps replace the Teflon parts?

I would suggest that it is difficult to make any sweeping statements as to how any individual piano will behave in any particular environment....as it is the environment and the changes that occur that can and have caused the issues with these actions.
There are clients that I see that have had no issues at all.

The best solution is to replace the whole action with a New York 'Improved' available through your local technician specializing in this field.

It is NOT possible to replace the teflon bushings with felt as the hole size is not appropriate for this procedure.

I suggest you seek the best advice possible by making a call to the customer service dept at the Steinway and Sons Factory.....and ask for a recommendation.

800 366 1853 is the number to use.

Good luck

Steinway & Sons pianos were shipped with Teflon bushings from 1962-1982. During this 20 span some of the world's greatest concert pianists played on S&S Ds, with Teflon, with rarely a complaint.

The premise behind Teflon bushings was to creat a uniform and self lubricating action center that would outlast and out perform traditional felt action center bushings.

S&S help technical clinics across the country and did much inservice training through the factory and the PTG. Some seasoned techs refused to attend the training and some refused to spend the $ on the replacement tool and supplies.

When the pianos were well cared for and in stable conditions there was rarely a problem with the Teflon parts. The rub came from pianos that were neglected and out of regulation and/or instruments exposed to big humidity swings causing the action parts to change dimension. The precision hole in the bushing became oblong rather than round and the action center began to click. Often the problem was intermintent.

Often, then center became slugglish unschooled techs applied their traditional potions and lotions to the centers and exasorbated the situation by partially disolving the Teflon and making the center gummy.

If one pops out the Teflon bushing, the whole left is too big to bush with felt. The only option is to service the Teflon according to manufacturer's instructions with the kit or to replace the Teflon bearing parts with traditional ones.

I'm pretty sure that what BDB meant to say was to replace the parts which contain teflon with new parts.

Is not it possible to drill the hole (if a recess) and use a thick enough bushing cloth to use standard centers ?

What is the diameter of the teflon centers ?

I also like to know if you experiment on NY Steinwya 2 dimensions for the jack (49 -50 mm) depending of the era ? modern whippen is less tall than the German one, to me.


Marty, are you sure it have been a so long period 20 years ?

I was thinking of a may be 10 years range in the 70's

being in Europe, I've seen only one, barely one note clicked, but some centers where sluggish.

the action generally speaking was more noisy (more wooden noise) than with usual bushing cloth, I believe that was the most noticeable problem eventually.

The problem with replacing the teflon with felt is that there are no bird's eyes on the static parts, so that they will slide from side to side if they are not replaced, and those are the parts which are the bulk of the replacement. So if you are going to replace the teflon with felt, you might as well replace everything.

OK I get it, thank you.

If the hammers and/or knuckles are worn, you might consider a complete rebuild.

New hammers, shanks, flanges, and whippens with a complete regulation is pricey. But if the strings have good tone and the finish looks good, it will be almost like getting a brand new Steinway - "if" and "almost' being the key words.

Rebushing with felt won't work as the whole is too large. The required thickness of a felt bushing would be out of ratio to the diameter of the pin and give a very imprecise mushy feel and motion.

The issue with rebushing with felt is that the whole is too large. The thickness of the felt bushing would be out of ratio to the diameter of the pin and would give a mushy and imprecise feel and motion.

The diameter of the teflon bushings is the same or slightly smaller than that of felt bushings.

I had to go look at some of my replacement Steinway parts, and I'd have to agree with BDB. The hole size doesn't appear to be a problem, but the lack of the "birds-eye" on either side of the non-flange part would present a problem unless you wanted to mess with some small nylon washers to space the part in the center of the flange.

Looking at the parts, I realized that I hadn't used any of the Teflon replacement bushings in years, and would likely have trouble remembering the procedure. Yikes!

I am really wondering was UHMWPE ever tried for the bushings in piano. It seems to me really superior material for this purpose. UHMWPE is much harder and tougher, compared to Teflon (which makes the latter hardly suitable for the job), extremely low moisture absorption, a very low coefficient of friction plus self-lubrication, highly resistant to abrasion and much more!

It was not the teflon that was the problem, it was the wood. The teflon stayed the same size, but the wood would change. The early bushings were more of a problem than the later ones, where they added ribbing to the outside of the bushing, which could compress or expand according to the movement of the wood.

BDB,
I see, it makes a lot of sense! I would still think that a great part of the problem is with the softness of Teflon, which yields easily to the dimensional swings of wood. UHMWPE is significantly harder and tougher, so with sufficient thickness of the bushings, it may very well be able to successfully resist the wood changes. Perhaps, softer outer layers of the bushing would be helpful to relieve the stress or replacing the wood altogether.
(I am not a piano technician by any means, so I apologize for my potential misconceptions).

I too have seen them working just fine and other clattering away. I've repinned some with sucess.