2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
74 members (bob@pei, babooshka, AJB, anotherscott, Abdol, Animisha, BMKE, B3boy, 20 invisible), 662 guests, and 276 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 800
fingers Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 800
I often hear/read that German scales, strings, hammers etc. are something special. In fact, one dealer told me that a particular non-German piano they sold was superior beacause it had a "German scale"- But, they couldn't explain exactly what was "German" about it and why it was better. What is it that makes various German piano parts so coveted?

fingers


Playing piano at age 2, it was thought that I was some sort of idiot-savant. As it turns out, I'm just an idiot.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 634
J
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 634
"You know the Germans always make good stuff."...Vince from ShamWow...LOL!


PTG Associate Member

"There is always room above; there is only the ground below."....F.E. Morton (with props to Del F.)
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,604
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,604
For generations, many brands of pianos from Europe in general and Germany specifically have been coveted as top performance and quality, much like Mercedes Benz. As a result, many Asian manufacturers tout German strings, scale designs, actions, etc. to trade off the German reputation.


Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop.
Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,534
M
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,534
German pianos have the historical idea of quality like the Japanese have with cars like Toyota...

Crap, never mind...:)

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 83
L
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 83
What about Grotrian-Steinweg??

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,216
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,216
Originally Posted by leomtodd
What about Grotrian-Steinweg??


Their German and generally considered to be phenomenal. What was your question?


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,940
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,940
Everything made in Germany is amazing and perfect.

BMW cars
Mercedes (with the exception of the chrysler ownership years)
Miele vacuums
Grotrian Steinweg
Bach ha


______
Home -
1905 Story and Clark Art Case smile

--NEW!--- 1964ish Conn 640 vacuum tube theatre organ! (with leslie!) smile

Grandmas- New Hyundai petite baby grand

Church (the organ I practice on)-
1998 Bedient (Built about 45 minutes from me!) 2m/pedal 24 rank Cavaille-Coll style pipe organ
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,216
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,216
From speaking with German piano makers & part makers (on occasion), it starts with their cultural identity. People associated with piano manufacture, repair, even sales are expected to have a...culturally mandated high level of training and expertise.

Here, we can't even get people to agree that you shouldn't try to voice your own piano. I've seen a few people sell pianos one week and cars or refrigerators the next. Most countries have a wider level of acceptance, but I believe that the cultural standard drives German excellence in manufacturing. I think it is hard for most people to understand this unless you are in a culture with similar values. I compare it to the way most people respect their physician. Any Germans or Ex-Pats wish to comment?


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 746
S
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 746
Most pianos made in Germany come with a simple statement: "Made in Germany." That's all!

Most pianos that boast this and that German part a million times in their advertisements usually come from Asia.

Last edited by SeilerFan; 02/21/10 09:02 PM.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15
K
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
K
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15

Having just bought an 80 year old Lipp upright I can say it is because of the heritage and history. If you've been making pianos for 150 years like alot of german makes then things have been perfected over time. Also alot of those makes are hand made so their is a level of workmanship and individuality to those pianos.

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3
M
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3
Having lived in Germany for 18 years, I can tell you it is all about the culture. Germans that decide to embark on a career in manufacturing instruments (or any other trade)generally make that decision for life. They train and study for years, just to earn the basic qualifications, sometimes decades to earn the status of "Master". Their heritage and pride dictates that they produce exceptional quality products. Their political system of mild socialism allows them to focus solely on quality, not merely on profits. Workers of any guild are well taken care of and need not focus on finishing their work first; it being flawless suffices.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,940
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,940
I totally forgot about other german greats

There are the pipe organs of course!

Some of the worlds best and oldest organs are in germany.

Arp Schntiger
F.C. Schnitger
Gottfried Silbermann
Hinz

Oh and it goes on and on and on!

http://www.glogerfestspillene.no/images/stories/faste/orgelfasade1_3Dframe.jpg
http://www.die-orgelseite.de/pict/A_StFlorian_Stiftskirche1.jpg
http://www.die-orgelseite.de/pict/D_Berlin_Dom1.jpg


*****And perhaps the most incredible, absolute most ornate musical instrument ever built****
http://www.die-orgelseite.de/pict/D_Weingarten_Basilika.jpg

Beat that america. ha That organ was built in 1750- and is one of the largest organs in the world


______
Home -
1905 Story and Clark Art Case smile

--NEW!--- 1964ish Conn 640 vacuum tube theatre organ! (with leslie!) smile

Grandmas- New Hyundai petite baby grand

Church (the organ I practice on)-
1998 Bedient (Built about 45 minutes from me!) 2m/pedal 24 rank Cavaille-Coll style pipe organ
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,940
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,940
Did I tell you I am moving to germany as soon as I hit college!?!?! ha

I picked out my place too. In the hills of Heidelberg! I went there and fell in love with it.


______
Home -
1905 Story and Clark Art Case smile

--NEW!--- 1964ish Conn 640 vacuum tube theatre organ! (with leslie!) smile

Grandmas- New Hyundai petite baby grand

Church (the organ I practice on)-
1998 Bedient (Built about 45 minutes from me!) 2m/pedal 24 rank Cavaille-Coll style pipe organ
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
Not everything German is great. This German Behringer digital piano is inferior to Yamaha and Roland. It has the reputation of being not reliable and the keyboard action is definitely far behind Yamaha and Roland.

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,864
F
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
F
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,864
Originally Posted by Brandon_W_T
Did I tell you I am moving to germany as soon as I hit college!?!?! ha

I picked out my place too. In the hills of Heidelberg! I went there and fell in love with it.


Smart boy! You could do a lot worse!


Amateur Pianist and raconteur.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by Brandon_W_T
Everything made in Germany is amazing and perfect.

BMW cars
Mercedes (with the exception of the chrysler ownership years)
Miele vacuums
Grotrian Steinweg
Bach ha
These days, after owning three Mercedes (non-Chrysler years), I drive Fords.

German made, although good, isn't what it used to be. At least, with regards to Mercedes.


Mason & Hamlin AA -- 93225
Casio XW-P1 Synth
Fender Stratocaster HSS
Epiphone Les Paul Special
Epiphone Viola Bass


http://hallmarkchannel.com
http://twitter.com/ericwgray
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 419
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 419
Originally Posted by 4evr88
Not everything German is great. This German Behringer digital piano is inferior to Yamaha and Roland. It has the reputation of being not reliable and the keyboard action is definitely far behind Yamaha and Roland.

Everything by Behringer is inferior to almost any American-made counterparts wink

And ahh, the hills of Heidelberg, my hometown, I definitely miss them. You could do a lot worse!

Anyway, I am not really sure what it is about German pianos.
My theory would be that it's not really any magical reason.

German pianos have a stellar reputation, which makes people pay premium for them, which allows a lot of diverse German manufacturer to survive and spend money on building quality pianos.

Any one German manufacturer would never stand heads and shoulders above Shigeru Kawai pianos, especially if you do the comparison on a price parity level - there just isn't more than 3-4 other premium manufacturers in the world altogether.


aim for the moon - if you miss, at least you'll be among the stars.
[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 365
mjs Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 365
As far as I can see, Behringer Germany is only the distributor for products from Behringer Intl. Singapore. Possibly, there is still some R&D left there, but with less than 60 people in Germany, there isn't much scope for that.
Manufacturing appears to be entirely in China (including Hongkong and Macau). So hardly anything to compare with the German premium piano manufacturers.


Steingraeber D-232 # 45 777
Neupert Telemann harpsichord
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,070
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,070
Originally Posted by MattMontana
Having lived in Germany for 18 years, I can tell you it is all about the culture. Germans that decide to embark on a career in manufacturing instruments (or any other trade)generally make that decision for life. They train and study for years, just to earn the basic qualifications, sometimes decades to earn the status of "Master". Their heritage and pride dictates that they produce exceptional quality products. Their political system of mild socialism allows them to focus solely on quality, not merely on profits. Workers of any guild are well taken care of and need not focus on finishing their work first; it being flawless suffices.


Haha, I'm from Germany and I like this statement! It helps our economy!

BTW I have a KAWAI DP (made in Indonesia) and am very happy with it! A completely German made DP would have cost at least 5 times as much as the KAWAI, maybe better build quality, but who cares given the price tag!? Nevertheless, I own a lot of other stuff that was made in Germany, and compared to US products (I can tell since two of my brothers live there) many (not all) of them are superior build quality but of course with a superior price tag! It's (like almost always): You get what you pay for!

Last edited by kawaian; 02/22/10 08:09 AM.

<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,103
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,103
Back to the opening poster:

The more times "German" is mentioned, the lower the quality of the piano.

Germans do make quality products, but are not the innovators.

There really is no such thing as a 'Renner' action for instance. There are Renner made copies of Steinway actions and Schwander actions, for instance. The modern piano is an American invention. The Germans execute it well. As mentioned, it is cultural too, whereas a piano builder or technician take the career seriously and study for years. There are no correspondance technicians there. On the other hand, this leads to a rigid orthodoxy and less questioning. There are no Del Fandrich's or Ari Isaac's either, to name a couple. The questioning of what we do, how we do it and the materials we use is more American (and Canadian, of course!)

Hope this helps

Steve

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
Piano Buyer - Read the Articles, Explore the website
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
What happened to ONKYO
by Abdol - 08/17/22 09:23 AM
Shiedmayer Grands?
by russmagi - 08/17/22 09:16 AM
Which would you recommend and why - K8, K20 or U3?
by plumberpw - 08/17/22 08:00 AM
C2X Silent (SH2)?
by Jadam - 08/17/22 12:25 AM
Happy Birthday, Bill Evans!
by Dfrankjazz - 08/16/22 10:52 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
FREE June Newsletter is Here!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
-------------------
Music Store Going Out of Business Sale!
---------------------
Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics214,431
Posts3,216,947
Members106,103
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5