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Joined: Feb 2012
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Yep, well laid out options. They make the call. You can even ask if they want to keep the compensator or not.

You to customer:
"New whippens with installation, etc. will cost $XXXX, while rebuilding yours and keeping this rather unusual feature would run $XXXX. You may not be able to tell the difference, but it is likely that the piano's touch could be a little faster and lighter without the compensator system, while costing you less."

Of course, adjustable stickers and the tinker-toy labor of them ain't cheap either. If you discard the compensator, you have to go with not only new whippens, but new stickers/abstracts, arms and flanges, too! I haven't priced them lately, but the last time I did check I was SHOCKED! Then, of course, the flanges probably won't fit the same as the originals on the whippen rail or on the sticker arm rail (auxiliary flanges). Plus you may need to make a new sticker arm rail for spacing to the capstan line, or redrill capstan holes in the keys.

Be $ure to think carefully about whether to ju$t keep the compen$ator $et-up.

Last edited by RestorerPhil; 03/13/12 10:30 PM.

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Originally Posted by RestorerPhil
Be $ure to think carefully about whether to ju$t keep the compen$ator $et-up.


Did you notice the rust on the parts shocked
Thick corrosion on the back check wires, bridal tape wires, spoons, springs, flange pins. And then there are the felts cry
The whippen assembly has 7 center pins.

New parts are a must forget about the compensator.


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Oh, so you ARE going to do the job?

Last I checked you can still buy all those parts. In fact, I think I have a set of all of them on hand. Can I make you a deal on them?


BUT I CAN'T FIND ANYTHING. IT IS ALL PACKED UP WAITING FOR MY NEW SHOP TO GET DONE!


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Originally Posted by RestorerPhil


Last I checked you can still buy all those parts. In fact, I think I have a set of all of them on hand. Can I make you a deal on them?


If your parts are older they are probably the old Pratt parts. They were less than desirable.
The Tokiwa parts from Japan are what are available today and the quality is so much better.

I hope WNG comes up with something in the future for uprights.


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Fire up the air compressor and blow it out. Everything will be fine.

Might want to wipe it down with ammonia while you have it apart.

Have fun. Your going to be busy for a while. Get a down payment so you can get that new coffee pot you've been wanting.

Don't forget to post the before and after pics...

Sometimes I have to ask, "You haven't tuned your piano in over 20 yrs; So you called me????".


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Originally Posted by Dave B
Might want to wipe it down with ammonia while you have it apart.


All kidding aside, didn't Dave B really mean lighter fluid. The more I look back at those pictures, I think he meant lighter fluid. smirk

(Poof)


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Mr Verhnjak,

You appear to be a respected piano technician in your area. But when I see a title of a thread that implies dealing with a customer who has not otherwise harmed you in any way as a hassle, I honestly would have second thoughts about using you as a technician.

I'm sure you realize that more than just technicians read this forum. Maybe I'm a little jaded or sensitive, but I believe this sort of thing just foments distrust between laypeople and piano "professionals".

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Rod- WN&G were showing an upright model with parts made by them at NAMM. Your wishes will come true soon. Call Nina.


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Originally Posted by daifanshi
Mr Verhnjak,

You appear to be a respected piano technician in your area. But when I see a title of a thread that implies dealing with a customer who has not otherwise harmed you in any way as a hassle, I honestly would have second thoughts about using you as a technician.

I'm sure you realize that more than just technicians read this forum. Maybe I'm a little jaded or sensitive, but I believe this sort of thing just foments distrust between laypeople and piano "professionals".


I'm sorry I don't know what may be offensive or wrong with my post confused
My question is more about what other techs would do in the situation. Would they walk away or take it on.
Nothing against the clients in any way. It's about the piano and meeting our clients desires to the best of our abilities.




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It's refreshing to see how the pervading sentiment toward old uprights within the industry has changed in the last few years. I've always seen them more as works of art worthy of saving if at all possible.

Rod, I think Del said it best.



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Originally Posted by daifanshi
Mr Verhnjak,

You appear to be a respected piano technician in your area. But when I see a title of a thread that implies dealing with a customer who has not otherwise harmed you in any way as a hassle, I honestly would have second thoughts about using you as a technician.

I'm sure you realize that more than just technicians read this forum. Maybe I'm a little jaded or sensitive, but I believe this sort of thing just foments distrust between laypeople and piano "professionals".


I don't see it that way at all. I see it as a professional who has enough concern about doing the right thing that he goes to his peers for advice. It's not as if a piano technician is omniscient.




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Originally Posted by daifanshi
...when I see a title of a thread that implies dealing with a customer who has not otherwise harmed you in any way as a hassle, I honestly would have second thoughts about using you as a technician.
This is a completely subjective (and for me: strange) way to interpret the thread title (as well as a needless conclusion). Of course anyone is entitled to their own interpretation, but one only needs to read into the thread a ways to understand that this is missing the mark entirely. The client is not perceived as a hassle at all. The situation with the rebuild throws up more than one dilemma. This is what is being discussed.


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Originally Posted by Rod Verhnjak
Originally Posted by daifanshi
Mr Verhnjak,

You appear to be a respected piano technician in your area. But when I see a title of a thread that implies dealing with a customer who has not otherwise harmed you in any way as a hassle, I honestly would have second thoughts about using you as a technician.

I'm sure you realize that more than just technicians read this forum. Maybe I'm a little jaded or sensitive, but I believe this sort of thing just foments distrust between laypeople and piano "professionals".


I'm sorry I don't know what may be offensive or wrong with my post confused
My question is more about what other techs would do in the situation. Would they walk away or take it on.
Nothing against the clients in any way. It's about the piano and meeting our clients desires to the best of our abilities.



Like I said maybe I'm jaded or sensitive. But that's the impression "I" got. Which like everybody else's impression means absolutely nothing in the greater scheme of things.

But I personally would have given the thread a different title since most would say it is open to interpretation. Good luck in your work.

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I agree with the thread not seeing the customer as a hassle, but I also think that the phrase "How would you deal with..." can have the connotation that a problem is going to come next. At least that's how I would use it.

For example, "How would you deal with a flood?" "How would you deal with your car breaking down?" I wouldn't say "How would you deal with winning the lottery?" unless I meant to emphasize the problems that might come with winning the lottery.

So when what comes next is "a client like this", the unintended impression can be given that the client is a problem.


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As a customer, I would rather hear a vendor tactfully decline my job rather than proceed with a project that is really a bad idea, or that is beyond their help.

Worse pianos than this one have been brought back, that is a fact. Who knows, the fact that you could buy ten--- maybe twenty--- better pianos for the price of the restoration is beside the question for the owner. Some people really do have more money than they know what to do with.

It's the guy who thinks he can do anything that you have to watch out for, more than the one who recognizes a healthy boundary. I can take "No," for an answer... but I don't ask for advice unless I think the person I'm asking knows.


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Originally Posted by PianoStudent88
...So when what comes next is "a client like this", the unintended impression can be given that the client is a problem.
...until you read the thread thumb


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Originally Posted by PianoStudent88
I agree with the thread not seeing the customer as a hassle, but I also think that the phrase "How would you deal with..." can have the connotation that a problem is going to come next. At least that's how I would use it.


Correct, the problem is with the piano. And the "problem" is how do you explain the issues to the client.

I guess if I could change the tittle I could have wrote How do you deal with a piano like this..... if the client wants it rebuilt?. But I know how to deal with the piano. I also know how to deal with the client. Just looking for some fun discussion and see how many would say I be ripping off the client or crazy to tackle the project.

Like I wrote the retail industry has destroyed the vintage piano market and I'm putting a feeler out there how it has effected the minds of my peers.

I'll be teaching this year at the 55th Annual Piano Technicians Guild Convention in Seattle. I'll be talking about some of these issues. I'll also be doing a class with Jude Reveley touching on some similar issues.


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Originally Posted by Supply
Originally Posted by PianoStudent88
...So when what comes next is "a client like this", the unintended impression can be given that the client is a problem.
...until you read the thread thumb

Yes, indeed. But a thread title can give an impression that can colour the initial reading of a thread.


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It seems an innocent enough question to me and one not loaded with any unpleasant intent.

I'm not really qualified to speak about technical matters in THIS forum, but as a pianist and teacher, I've encountered the occasional personality that is quick to take offense and often in the most oblique and/or tangential way. And, it's no respecter of persons. Brahms’ letters are filled with constant imagined slights of one kind and another.

As for the character of the particular house to whom this work has fallen, circumstances have recently put me in the position of researching three highly respected concerns in the great Northwest, one in Oregon, another in Washington state and the last in British Columbia. I've been quite overwhelmed by the respect, admiration and one can even say affection that these artisans enjoy. Rod Verhnjak is certainly not the least of these. A family business such as his could not be sustained without sterling customer service and RESPECT for same.

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Originally Posted by Rod Verhnjak
Originally Posted by PianoStudent88
I agree with the thread not seeing the customer as a hassle, but I also think that the phrase "How would you deal with..." can have the connotation that a problem is going to come next. At least that's how I would use it.


Correct, the problem is with the piano. And the "problem" is how do you explain the issues to the client.

I guess if I could change the tittle I could have wrote How do you deal with a piano like this..... if the client wants it rebuilt?. But I know how to deal with the piano. I also know how to deal with the client. Just looking for some fun discussion and see how many would say I be ripping off the client or crazy to tackle the project.



I "guess" you really should change the title or have it changed to reflect what you really meant (which I'm still not sure about.) And in the meantime you can explicitly mention in your original post that you are looking for opinions on whether you should rebuild it or not instead of steering the discussion towards the condition of the customer's piano and its history. But you've just stated you already know how to "deal with" the customer and piano. So what was the original post about again?

So that leaves the "fun" part. Is that the same as mocking? Or is that having "fun" at the customer's expense? Like having fun discussing how crappy the piano is that they consider to be an heirloom? smile

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