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Joined: Jun 2013
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Thanks so much Almaviva!
I will go to some of the stores to try the different brands out!
so excited!!
But I just noted that they are all ~$100,000 or close to it?
Last edited by Koyuki; 07/09/13 05:32 PM.
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Stating that Estonias tend to have better fit and finish than Steinways is not necessarily badmouthing Steinways. After recently completing work on a new 6'10, he called piano one of "most impressive" he's ever worked on. Gently avoiding words like "better" or "superior"... A man of class. Norbert  I would love to know who this "Official" Steinway tech is in our area. Could you please share his name. Thanks!!!
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I would love to know who this "Official" Steinway tech is in our area. Could you please share his name. Thanks!!!
Understand: not in our city of Vancouver Rod - your doubt is justified. In case of interest we're shipping Estonias all over Western Canada Strange that local Steinway techs here seem reluctant to ever check things out with us. No Estonia, no Sauter, nada. Too dangerous due to "local politics" perhaps? Norbert 
Last edited by Norbert; 07/09/13 05:34 PM.
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I would love to know who this "Official" Steinway tech is in our area. Could you please share his name. Thanks!!!
Understand: not in our city of Vancouver Rod - your doubt is justified. In case of interest we're shipping Estonias all over Western Canada Strange that local Steinway techs here seem reluctant to ever check things out with us. No Estonia, no Sauter, nada. Too dangerous due to "local politics" perhaps? Norbert Fair enough,. What is a "Official" Steinway tech?
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Thanks so much Almaviva!
I will go to some of the stores to try the different brands out!
so excited!!
But I just noted that they are all ~$100,000 or close to it? Of the instruments on that list and in the size class of the B (or one size down as you are also considering), only Bösendorfer, Fazioli & C.Bechstein are likely to be substantially more than the B you were offered. Some will be similar and a few will be noticeably less. Fair enough,. What is a "Official" Steinway tech? I know you are teasing Norbert, but have you really been able to avoid distinctions like these? Steinway does have training open to the dealership techs, but sometimes the stamp is wielded more politically customers or dealers than "officially" by Steinway. It's not a well known program, but years ago we sent two techs for "official" Bösendorfer training in Vienna and now they get to carry a seal next to their RPT logo on their business card. The training was valuable.
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I am sure that, like in our area, Technicians associated with the local Steinway dealer usually refer to themselves as "official Steinway Technicians." Whether or not it has any real meaning is another question, but certainly means that they have, well, "drunk from the Kool-aid" (so to speak)  Rod, you well know that Norbert can NOT reveal any names on this forum, because, if he makes his living by working with Steinway's for the local dealer or concert hall, the retribution to the technician by Steinway would be instantaneous and severe. For some reason, they don't like their associated techs saying nice things about other brands . To the OP : Certainly go try all the other pianos of similar size to the B, and Estonia 210. Then go back an play the B and 210 again, and let us know which fits your budget and is the best value. But please don't forget to let us know... several of us already have a bet going as to which one you end up with 
Russell I. Kassman Technician -Consultant FORMER/Semi-Retired: USA Rep.for C.Bechstein & Sauter; Founder/R. KASSMAN Piano; Consultant - GUANGZHOU Pearl River Piano Co. www.RussellKassman.com
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Right, Master, I'm sure your bet must be on the B. OP--there's a lot of sales talk to go through here. As Marty says, try as many pianos as you can. I too will be very interested in what your tastes are...but that is what it is ....your tastes.
Last edited by gutenberg; 07/10/13 06:33 AM.
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By putting the question to me, Rod appears to imply that "Steinway technicians" cannot offer other opinions other than those touted by company. If this is true or not is a different question: company people will always be company people....my own dad *was*  My statement was simply that the tech in question after finishing extensive prep work on the new 6'10 called it one of the "most impressive pianos" he had ever worked on. He did not use words like "superior" "better" or "best" It is somewhat disconcerting that challenging that simple, factual, realtively harmless statement would come from someone who for long time has seen Estonia as competitor to his own business interests. The record for this unfortunately going back a long time in our B.C. area..  Wondering if same question would have been put forward if the tech in question would have called Charles Walter one of the "most impressive" pianos he's ever seen or worked on. It's certyainly nice to hear from someone out of town who's truly independent not belonging to the local fold. Guessing he's not exactly the only one... Peace. Norbert
Last edited by Norbert; 07/09/13 09:43 PM.
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I always use a factory trained Ellenberg tech. They are the most skilled and can really evaluate a piano! 
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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I always use a factory trained Ellenberg tech. They are the most skilled and can really evaluate a piano! "Ellenberg"? That's a new brand for me, Marty. Or did you mean "Altenburg", which would explain the grinning emoticon?
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By putting the question to me, Rod appears to imply that "Steinway technicians" cannot offer other opinions other than those touted by company. If this is true or not is a different question: company people will always be company people....my own dad *was* My statement was simply that the tech in question after finishing extensive prep work on the new 6'10 called it one of the "most impressive pianos" he had ever worked on. He did not use words like "superior" "better" or "best" It is somewhat disconcerting that challenging that simple, factual, realtively harmless statement would come from someone who for long time has seen Estonia as competitor to his own business interests. The record for this unfortunately going back a long time in our B.C. area.. Wondering if same question would have been put forward if the tech in question would have called Charles Walter one of the "most impressive" pianos he's ever seen or worked on. It's certyainly nice to hear from someone out of town who's truly independent not belonging to the local fold. Guessing he's not exactly the only one... Peace. Norbert Just trying to figure out what an "official" Steinway tech is. Have a great week ahead.
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Almaviva, You're a relative newcomer to this neck of the woods. I shall attempt Yodaesque wisdom to enlighten you. A long time ago, in a far and distant piano galaxy, a force known as the E11enberg shook the entire musical universe. Even the Knights Tempo, crusading with all their might, couldn't quell the uprising which occurred. At the same time, the Knight piano disappeared from the market by being sucked down the Reverse Well. With it went the E11enberg, never to affect the force again. So it is best left to history and all of us ol' coots who reside here. To do otherwise would cause all of the Piano Forum to be banned. I do trust that this has answered all of your questions. 
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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Unlike certain dealers here who sell competing brands, I've never heard my "official" Steinway technician say a bad word about any piano. She was trained at the Steinway factory, so that makes her "official"?
She's trying very hard to make my Kohler and Campbell sound as good as it can. She only says nice things about it. So far, she hasn't been fired by Steinway.
But any day, right fellas?
Gary
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Just trying to figure out what an "official" Steinway tech is.
It's the person who is consistently hired by a local Steinway dealer to prep his pianos. Including doing all major concert work in town. Missed anything? Why is this point so important to you? And why the "have a nice week"? Norbert 
Last edited by Norbert; 07/10/13 10:58 AM.
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Shouldn't you be in bed now?
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.
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Do you think the Estonia is better or similar to the Steinway? like in what ways?
I'm not qualified to say; I've tried quite a few Steinways over the years but only two Estonias. I loved both Estonias in terms of both touch and tone. The Steinways have been all over the map. I think an Estonia has a sweeter, more singing tone, perhaps. As for the ability to produce an "angry" tone or percussive sound, maybe the Steinway has an advantage there. Maybe someone else can chime in here; I've often wondered how to characterize the difference between how pianos sound. Does the Estonia have a classic "European" sound or is it somewhere between European and "American" as I've read somewhere? What is the best way to describe the tone of a piano? One thing is certain: an Estonia does indeed sound different than a Steinway. But HOW? These are very good questions- I don't mean to revive an old thread but I also love reading how the tone is described from piano to piano, in the same way fine wines are characterized by the flavors they have.
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The question of "Steinway versus Estonia" needs to be answered by those who are checking out both pianos as possible candidates for themselves. This, of course is not fundamentally different from comparing any other number/makes of pianos: may 'best one' win... However, it's been long way for Estonia to even be compared to Steinway - a special accomplishment for sure. Not too long ago nobody ever heard of the make and my competition was busy poking fun at it. It would be nice to find out what the conclusion was for OP in her own shopping saga. Happen to know, but it's not my business to say.. Norbert 
Last edited by Norbert; 04/02/14 09:10 PM.
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Do you think the Estonia is better or similar to the Steinway? like in what ways?
I'm not qualified to say; I've tried quite a few Steinways over the years but only two Estonias. I loved both Estonias in terms of both touch and tone. The Steinways have been all over the map. I think an Estonia has a sweeter, more singing tone, perhaps. As for the ability to produce an "angry" tone or percussive sound, maybe the Steinway has an advantage there. Maybe someone else can chime in here; I've often wondered how to characterize the difference between how pianos sound. Does the Estonia have a classic "European" sound or is it somewhere between European and "American" as I've read somewhere? What is the best way to describe the tone of a piano? One thing is certain: an Estonia does indeed sound different than a Steinway. But HOW? These are very good questions- I don't mean to revive an old thread but I also love reading how the tone is described from piano to piano, in the same way fine wines are characterized by the flavors they have. I would suggest (timidly) that Steinways vary their tone throughout the dynamic range, but Estonias aim for a consistent tone across the dynamic range. From the top to the bottom of the scale, both pianos try to have a clear, ringing tone in the top half, and a warmer, smoother tone in the bottom half. My speculation is that Laul patterned his piano after Steinways, but changed it in ways he found to be an 'improvement' (that is, ways he liked better). Another way of looking at it, the Steinway sound grew up around Rachmaninoff and Horowitz, and is good at producing a sound that impresses and intimidates your listeners, just as those two pianists did. Estonia is more straightforward and intimate. Either of these pianos can be brilliant under the right hands.
Poetry is rhythm
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Hello Marty. I see you are in Rochester. I live here part time with my husband (and work in Minneapolis). I'm wondering what brands you might recommend I try as I consider grand pianos by Yamaha, Boston, and Steinway (the latter used). Are any worth traveling to "audition"? I'm thinking a 6-3 Estonia, for example. Heavy turns me off immediately, but something too fast (like the old Yamaha C series) is equally unappealing.
Are you a serious player? What do you play and how do you like it?
Cheers!
David
Mason & Hamlin AA
Learning Mozart's Fantasie K.V. 397
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Marty died some time ago.
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