Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum upright piano fallboards/music desks.

I'm playing piano after piano in my so-far unfruitful quest after a used vertical piano -- and the superficials are generally unimportant. But.

What is up with 4-6 screws attaching a (usually short) shelf to the underside of the raised fallboard of most (non-practice-room) verticals? In what way are the needs of the home player so different from those of the practice-room user, that the music desk has to be a. so different, as in, smaller; and b. (to all appearances) so fragile? It even looks like it would be easy to accidentally lower the fallboard without folding up the music shelf.

Maybe I'm different than other people. I like to spread my stuff out.

Is this just the current fashion? I guess it won't be a deal-breaker, but the things are so identical that it seems odd.

Are you listening piano manufacturers??? ARE YOU???!!!

This design has been used on various upright pianos for more than 120 years. It is out-dated and one of the most stupid piano-related things ever.

I know what you mean about the little dinky, fold-down music desk. I've read that this is a traditional, European upright cabinet style, and quite common on uprights, new and old.

I like the un-common music desk on my older Kawai K48A. I don't read music that much, but I do need a music desk on occasion. (Sorry for the large pic... I'm not that good at editing photos ).

Rick

It's because it's sleeker and slimmer than the old full-length music rack. Minimalism is in, and clunkiness is out. The needs of the interior decorator outweighs the needs of the musician in the piano world. It's not too bad, providing it's long enough. My K3 has it, and I don't mind it too much. I have accidentally closed the fallboard with the rack down, but that's not too often.I must say that a full-length rack is very useful, especially if you are recording vocals.

I used to have a Kawai US-50 (in ebony) that looked much like your K48. It had that same music desk, the biggest and best I've ever had. It held everything, from single sheets to over-sized books ... and at least three of each, side by side. Superb!

My YC Pramberger has the same music desk that's independent of the fall board as Rick's Kawai. There are "tone ports" behind it. I had a small problem with it. The lip was held on by #4 brass screws in the "end grain" of mdf. My son used to rest his elbows on it when was bored or frustrated at the piano and it pulled away from the vertical section. I called Hollywood Piano about how to fix it and they handled it as a warranty issue which I thought was quite gracious of them.

That was gracious - and Smart!

What was the outcome with your son?

Yikes. Well, it's at least nice to know I'm not alone in thinking it's not a very good design. Sadly I believe you are probably right, SBP. Outward appearance seems to be wagging the dog.

It now seems to me that the fallboard design may be determining what the shelf has to be. It's a first-year-design-student-simple solution to the problem, but the result is that the board has to be very deep front-to-back to extend far enough to cover the keys. That results in the fallboard when raised obscuring the lower half of the ideal spot for music. Result: Shelf screwed to underside of fallboard. Seems like more of a kludge than real design intention.

On the subject of sleekness -- I have to say it would force me to change my behavior to *become* sleeker. I spread out and don't mind music clutter. That would become impossible. So yeah. Sleek. Yark.

Upon a second look at Rick's Kawai (thanks for posting the photo btw -) I see that the fallboard area is very tall. But it obviously works, and it looks fine. But when lowered, I bet the back edge tucks into the cabinet like some kitchen pull-out cutting boards, which might complicate the design a bit. The built-in music stand isn't technically schmancey, but would use additional material -- heaven forbid. No one has wanted to do *that* since probably 1980.

I'm kind of hosed here because I want a pre-owned instrument, but to echo Eric's appeal...

Piano manufacturers: *Are* you listening?

I don't know. I can't think of one good reason for the short fold down shelves. I don't think its so much a matter of interior design as lack of intelligent design. When I was shopping I found them very aggravating. But that's because I usually don't play without music. And for shorter pieces, I don't like to turn pages, so I copy music on hard stock and lay it all out. Particularly when I'm accompanying someone. I don't have a picture of it, but I love the music desk on my vertical-the petrof 131. It is built right in and is up there where the music would be on a grand. Manufacturers need to offer more options on music desks---but how to get the message across? This would make for a good little article in the on-line piano book supplement.

Hear, hear! *With* accompanying photos illustrating the struggle.

I like Rick's music desk but my old original upright that I got from my Grandmother used almost the entire front of the piano as a desk. The angle was even adjustable.

This first time I saw one of the new little fold down lips I was shocked. What kind of fool would actually put something like that on a real piano on purpose.

There are aftermarket solutions and I'd get one right away. I put one on my Roland Fp7 and it made my life a LOT easier. You might expect a crappy desk on a portable DP, but on an acoustic?

At some point you would think a designer would let "form follow function".

I have one of those sleek and minimalist stupid non-desks too. The sleek minimalist design is complemented by the stacks of music all over the floor.

I took the full trade in credit on an upgraded model.

K*

Let me guess, you traded in a teenager and got a college grad, with no school debts, and dating an heiress!

The music shelf design is one reason why I prefer grand pianos to uprights.
With some pianos, the music shelf is wide enough to hold a large score; but also rather deep (front to back), so big books can fit on it.
Problem: When I play, sometimes my fingers hit the music shelf. And I don't like it.

With grand pianos, this problem is nonexistent.

I'm not a big fan of Schimmel, but when I studied music there were lots of Schimmel pianos there, and they usually had shelves independent from the fallboard; the fallboard sort of folded into the case.
Schimmel School Piano

That's why I like the design of the Yamaha YUS5, the August Förster 134K or the Young Chang Y116. And of course, lots of digital pianos don't have music shelf issues.

But if the issue is the width of the music shelf, then the Yamaha or the August Förster don't solve the problem. Try looking for used Schimmels or Young Changs; maybe there is an instrument you like.

The point though is that there is nothing inherent in the overall design of an upright that requires this trade-off. You shouldn't have to hit your fingers on a low short board just because you bought an upright rather than a grand.

I agree. I hate those things. Can't count the number of times music has fallen or doesn't fit. I've seen much better designs on some of the old ancient uprights. So much for the theory that piano designs are improving over time (not that I really bought that sales pitch anyway.)

@patH: Hah! My mother-in-law observed the likelihood of finger-whacking events on some of the music shelves we've seen. It hadn't crossed my mind as a possibility before that, but I can totally see that happening.

Hilariously, at the suggestion of my spouse, I am now looking at 6" grands as well as a verticals. May the best instrument win.

If I end up with a grand, well, I've always known that we would be able to cram such a thing into our 13' x 16'6" living room with 8' ceilings if we really wanted to. There's no way I was going to agitate for that because it's ridiculous.

But since spouse is ok with it -- and in fact he was the one to note that it'll be easier to get it into the house -- sure. Whatever. I'll turn the living room into a practice room, if a grand turns out to be the best value.

Now watch the music desk be the deciding factor.

[facehand]

This is the music area on one of my pianos.


Here it is with 8 pages of 8.5x11" sheet music spread on it.


That's my absolute minimum standard for size and non-flimsyness of a music desk on ANY piano, vertical or grand. (You listening, manufacturers? if Baldwin can make good music desks why can't the rest of you?)

Also the piano I used to have (before the Hamiltons) had a decent music desk, too.


This is another piano whose music desk I also like.

(I wish some of the internals were configured differently, though, but that's outside the scope of this topic.)

Now I'd like to see a piano with a music desk like this (with the large scale that would fit in this piano - strings and soundboard going all the way from the floor to the top of the case).


I believe the Mammoth piano is tall enough for that (and I really love its tone in this youtube video - link for those like me on mobile who can't display embedded video), but its sorry excuse for a "music desk" just isn't good enough.


Also, while searching Google for a few pics, I found myself taking a stroll down memory lane in this topic from 2 years ago, and this one from 4 years ago.

I recently played a lovely 5/8" vertical but I don't remember who built it.

Hallmark, at Christmas, has the best 6" grands with the extra lid-loop.

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)