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Well, this post could be called "How to NOT Learn to Tune Pianos"!

Full disclosure: I am a Registered Piano Tuner, and I teach piano tuning, both in person, and online through Skype and Google Hangout.

I have been doing this for a while. I love teaching and thought, "Wow, the internet might just be the way to get my name out there and build a good following of loyal people searching for information and tips on how to effectively and efficiently learn to tune pianos."

With my seven years of experience teaching piano tuning and also my background in engineering, teaching high school, and professional playing experience, along with the many positive reviews I've received, I thought this would be a great business to start.

Also, I've found that the internet is full of people searching for information on how to tune pianos. These forums have hundreds of posts with different tips and suggestions on how to tune pianos, and I have responded to a great many.

However, under each post is my signature, (which is attached to this post as well) with links to my websites that include information on learning how to tune pianos, and also my courses webpage, http://mrtuner.com/courses.htm, and I have received virtually no interest or inquiries on the subject or the courses.

So, I am totally confused.

This leaves me to believe that, one, the vast majority of people interested in this subject are trying to learn this skill on their own. Or two, this is just a bad idea. And I've persued enough bad business ideas and I don't need anymore experience with that, thank you very much.

That is why I've created this post; to get feedback on what others think about this situation.

I am concerned for a number of reasons, that individuals are trying to learn this skill on their own. Here are some of them:

1) Obviously, it is a difficult skill to learn on your own, and personal guidance is required for any performance task/art that one wants to learn. Most musicians understand this.

But also, there are other serious reasons why a person is making a big mistake (IMHO) if they are trying to do this without any personalized instruction.

2) Money.

This is a skill that could create another opportunity for someone to make a few extra dollars. That means the students are training to provide a skill. Without proper guidance, they are risking learning bad habits, which will translate into bad service.

Also, as a potential revenue generating skill, the cost of the course should not be a consideration.

3) The current state of piano tuning information on the internet.

The internet is full of awful, incorrect, and sadly misguided instruction on how to tune a piano. From people hawking cheap chromatic tuners with no stretch, to one professional looking website with an online testimonial by a so-called "graduate" of the program, who is actually the owner of the course!

Even well known and regarded correspondance courses that teach antiquated and out dated techniques, as well as techniques that were never considered efficient or effective.

How many unsuspecting individuals are spending money and time trying to learn from these static sources (reading, videos, etc) and ending up more confused than before, with no apparent advancement in technique or skill.

It is my opinion that this field, the field of piano training, because it is small, and there is no obvious way to learn it, has created a far too large selection of incorrect and dishonest sources of information, and students are believing, possibly because of the lack of live teachers, that this is the preferred way to teach the skill.

Or, nobody really cares about learning this skill at all.

So, what is it? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Should I do as my wife says and quit piano tuning and go back to engineering? (That'll never happen, but you're free to suggest it.)

Anyway, I've done this before; pleaded to this community for insight; and received some invaluable and insightful responses, so I am doing it again.

I'm interested in everyone's opinion, not just piano tuners or musicians.

Thank you, in advance, for your time.

Mark, take out an ad.

Marty,
Smarten up. I am struggling here with no teaching business, so stop your whining about someone trying to get some marketing insight.

I've always fancied having a go, I do have a good ear, can spot an out of tune instrument from a mile off and can tune my guitars quite easily. I do wonder how one goes about getting into it!

Hi Mark,

To be honest, your post sounded more like an advertisement for your tuning course than merely asking for opinions on the subject.

My opinion? Learning to tune pianos is not at all easy, as you say; there is probably not a great deal of interest from younger people; we are living in the golden age of distance learning (on line/internet). And, as bad as I hate to say this, it seems that digital pianos are becoming more and more popular with individuals, churches and other institutions.

One thing I do know for sure… a good piano tech/tuner earns their money and is appreciated by serious piano players/musicians/performers.

Rick

Mark, I gave you some insight. Take out an ad and stop using the forums to promote your product.

Stop thinking you are so insightful. I imagined your post before you wrote it.

Also, I have tried for three years to post an ad, but an ad would not allow me to experience the abundance of valuable and helpful information that I am about to get. Isn't that what this forum is for?

Sorry Marty, this thread isn't for you.

My 2 cents without really knowing much about the market. And I am trying to be practical, not snarky.

I sometimes look at the articles about tuning, and perhaps even pose a question or two. That's a long ways off from actually having any motivation or intent to learn how to tune a piano.

My belief is that vast majority of piano owners are primarily players, and would get a tuner to tune their piano. If they want to save money, they would reduce the frequency of tuning rather than learn the tuning process (at least that applies to me). And honestly, the annual cost of getting the piano tuned by a competent tech is very small compared to the cost of a competent piano teacher. Those who want to be professionals would likely opt for going to a local school where they can learn the trade hands-on, and plug into the local network to start getting referrals. The level of motivation needed to learn the art as a hobby is very high and restricted to a small set of people. I think your target market is this group -- that small group of individuals who are passionate about tuning and take a part-time approach to learning the art just for their own pianos.

The marketing problem is: how do you identify and target this segment? Its a small market, with no obvious actionable attributes. Your best bet to identify this segment may be figuring out who are buying tuning tools / books online. That requires doing deals with a few vendors to get access to this data (I don't know who they are, but you do). All in all, if I were to try to develop a business plan for this, I would question the scalability of the business for anything except a fun hobby.

Just my 2 cents.

Reasons why I would not take the course, even though I'd love to learn how to do tuning.

1. Cost, I'd have no intention of tuning anyone's piano but my own. I know how long it takes my tuner to tune my piano, the thought of doing that for free trying to learn is just more time than I have. I don't find enough practice time as it is.

2. I like my piano too much to subject it to my trying to tune it when I have someone that has tuned pianos for years and does a great job.

3. I like the anticipation of the tuner coming, working on my piano, and then leaving it all fresh and new feeling (sounding).

4. Cost again, for the time and money it would take, and not wanting to do it commercially, I can pay for a lot of tunings from my current tuner.

5. All courses are five consecutive days, Monday to Friday, inclusive, 4 hours each day, unless otherwise noted.

Perhaps if my tuner retires and I can't find anyone decent nearby to do it for a reasonable price, I'd consider getting into it. I don't know how much I'd care for doing it via Skype though. Would rather do it via a well thought out online course with videos and written lessons. I would imagine that type of course would cost less to deliver as well.

Thank you Rickster,

The vast majority of my content is free, so advertising my websites has little or no benefit for me financially.

That is the reason for these posts; do I keep slugging away, or quit? Some cynical people, like Marty, like to think of this as some fancy marketing trick, but I can't be bothered with that. I have a family to feed and I can not be spending energy in an area that will not produce results. Piano tuning, and teaching, is a business first, and I am always confused when people like Marty seem to attack others who are trying to make a living. Doesn't he know we are still in a recession, and in a dying trade?

Anyway, enough of that. Concerning technology and teaching methods, check out my recent classes in Basic Piano Tuning. I have posted the entire classes for free (hear that Marty!) at http://youtube.com/howtotunepianos

If you have time, let me know what you think. (I appologize for the long pauses of silence, I am still trying to figure out the technology)

Hi Larry,

You can find a lot of good information on this forum, but I'm more interested in your opinion on the future of teaching piano tuning. Do you think someone can learn to do it by themselves, with a few books, videos, and tools. Even sending in a few mp3's for critique, as one other school suggests?

Thank you Troy for that exceptionally well thoughout answer!

I actually wrote an article about the future of piano tuning and the anticipated difficulty of finding a good tuner. You may be more accurate in your prediction than you thought. (You can read it at http://howtotunepianos.com/category/current-state-of-piano-tuning/)

Concerning learning online from videos, this is what I am most concerned about. You are confirming to me that there are people that believe that this static approach to learning is sufficient. I believe that as a hobby, you may be right, considering that a hobby may be more about the means, than the ends.

For those interested in learning the skill efficiently and effectively, I am still convinced that in-person or Skype type classes are essential.

I am just concerned that the overall desire to learn this skill at a reasonable enough level to require in-person instruction, and the knowledge that in-person instruction is essential, is just not there.

To refute some other points concerning my specific courses: (By the way, thank you for going to the website and reading about them)

The courses can be any length. I do not have enough demand that I have to stick to specific dates and times. I am also sure that any other technician who offers these courses works the same way.

As for the quality of Skype teaching, you can actually see and hear my classes uploaded at http://youtube.com/howtotunepianos.

Thanks again for your awesome post. That is exactly what I was hoping for.

My two cents:

I think some people would be interested in a course that didn't bother with repair, but taught them how to keep their piano in tune between tech sessions.

It would have to be inexpensive enough to produce a fairly quick return on investment.

No no no, like most things, actual hands on training would create the best tuner.

Is it true that the best tuners used to be blind people, or is that an old wive's tale?

I am very interested in piano technology and learning to tune and to play. To be honest, I’ve enjoyed learning to tune my pianos about as much as I’ve enjoyed learning to play.

Not to brag, but I have learned to tune my pianos well enough to say they are reasonably in tune. I use the TuneLabPro tuning software with my laptop PC. I have done some tuning aurally, from scratch, with an A440 tuning fork. But, the tuning software makes it a lot faster, and more precise; though there is still some aural tuning necessary, even the ETD.

I had our own Sally Phillips to tune my Yamaha C7 a while back, and she introduced me to a higher level of tuning than my own… her tuning was superior to mine, and I was thrilled with it. Plus, she taught me a few things about tuning, voicing and regulating while I watched her do it… so, there is some validity to the in-person mentor training. I hope to work with her again at some point.

What I like best about tuning my own pianos is basically four things…
1)Pianos can drift out of tune quickly due to humidity/temperature changes
2)Pianos can drift out of tune with hard and frequent playing.
3)I like a well tuned piano, even though I can’t really play all that well.
4)I enjoy tuning my pianos… it helps relieve stress (and can cause stress at times )

Rick

Mark,
I would say an "AMEN" to Troy's response. If I had clunker pianos, maybe I would have a go at it. However, I value my pianos too much to experiment with them, breaking strings or doing more damage. Perhaps, touching them up might be a consideration. But, would that lead to a disaster? I have tried to clean up unisons and had some success but always try not to get to ambitious. JMHO. :-)

I have been interested in learning and the thought of learning in my own home via skype appeals greatly to me. I even bought a good tuning hammer and mutes etc... but when it comes down to it, I am a little intimidated to tune a 3 year old piano. Maybe if I had a 30 year old upright with nothing to lose, I wouldn't be intimidated.

Mark, I find your post very useful as I have been toying around with the idea of tuning my own piano. Maybe not every time, but it would be fantastic if I knew how to so that I can "touch up" between professional tuning. So thank you for that post.

Marty, how many times do I have to tell you? You are not the moderator. Unless you think that Rickster is not doing a good job moderating, which I think he does - always being fair, civil, non controversial, non emotional, and willing to set aside his personal views and take other's people view with an open mind. Non of qualities which you seem to demonstrate in this forum.

That being said, I have something to add to the topic. I've always been "afraid" of learning how to tune, because from what I gather I would need to train my ear to hear vibrations right?
Once pandoras box is opened, it cannot be closed. My fear is that I would hear those oscillations when I play the piano for enjoyment and perhaps would never again be able to enjoy a piano that is slightly out of tune.

Ignorance is bliss in away, I can play a piano that is not perfect, and I may not even notice.

Hope that makes sense.
Thoughts?

Hello Mark
It has always occurred to me that a possible business would be remote purchasing assistance. Friends of mine have asked me to go along and 'have a look' at pianos they think are a bargain and might purchase. I suspect many find the prospect of making an unassisted decision at a dealer or private sale really intimidating. Could you as a piano expert use the quite high quality of an iPhone or iPad's mike and camera to evaluate a piano?. Perhaps this could be offered as a service. I once asked a very questionable dealer to remove the action of a grand offered at a good price, popped my phone under and photographed a pin block horror story. I did not actually touch the piano but I knew what to ask for. You see the idea : a Piano Buying Buddy. If the piano looked good you could recommend a full technician evaluation. Perhaps it is just a crazy idea.

How to Learn to Tune Pianos ?

I would want to learn first hand , from an experienced piano technician and definitely not online as my primary resource , skype or otherwise.