Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum What clients hear...

We probably all run into clients that claim not to be able the difference between a piano that is tuned, and one that has never been tuned.

I've run into folks that will play a single note and say "can you hear that - it's not right" ... Which usually starts the conversation down the path to determine: tuning, voicing, other noises???

Today a young girl came over before I tuned and played G-B together in the 6th octave and asked if I could hear that... Her mom told me she hears it on the teacher's piano too, kindof a buzzing?

Tuned it up and called the girl back and did some testing around the area. Seems that she hears the Tartini tones between major thirds up there. http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/tartini-temperament.html

I've used them in the past, mostly between 4ths and 5ths in the upper octaves when I was tuning that way... Never really heard any discussions before from other techs. I'm not as sensitive to them anymore now that I'm of a more dignified age ;-)

Ron Koval

Thanks for this fascinating post, Ron! This is rarely talked about and thanks for bringing it up. I just went to my piano and was listening to major thirds in the 5th octave and could hear them! With minor thirds I could hear a tone a major 3rd below the lower note. With Major thirds the tone was a 4th below the lower note. With 4ths I could hear a tone a 5th below the lower note, and with 5ths the tone was an octave below the lower note.

It reminds me of how you can walk through your neighborhood for many years and still sometimes notice something that was always there but you've never seen it before!

As a brass player, I hear them much more and use them for intonation. Violinists, with the instrument right next to their ear, hear it easier. I know it as "difference tones".

Thanks Ron.

Did the girl say she wanted you to get rid of it? "But those M3's are just not in tune. Can't you hear that? You are a bad tuner." - paraphrase of actual conversation.

interesting link




I never realised this, I thought the unisons were tuned as dead on as possible.

Uh-oh. Here we go again.

(Sorry. Nothing derisive. We've just had numerous threads about whether unisons should be tuned dead flat, I mean beatless, or like the quote suggests. Not that I can do either ;-)

No, she just heard what she described as a "buzzing" - lower than the notes...

I did have "the talk" with a band director once that was working with the brass players and couldn't figure out why I wouldn't just make all the 5ths and M3rds pure...

Ron Koval

>Uh-oh. Here we go again.

Sorry for that, I did not see those discussions.

AGain our scientific mind confuse beats and frequencies, Marc ...