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It could be, but it's a 20 year old piano, so it could also be an awful deal if it's worn out and in need of new hammers and a lot of work. I've seen a 3 or 4 year old P22 sell for around $2000, so honestly, that seems pretty high for a 20 year old one. Of course, if they listed it for 1600, maybe you could get it for 1000 or even less. Someone else may know the market for those.


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Originally Posted by hello my name is
I just found a P22 Yamaha, they are asking 1600 and say that they purchased it in 1996. Does this sound like a good deal?


It all depends on the condition of the piano. The year of manufacture is really irrelevant. If you are really interested in the piano after playing it, have a technician check it out. It would be worth the money spent either to confirm that the piano is in good condition or to find out that it's in need of extensive (expensive!) work.

Regards,


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I just found a P22 Yamaha, they are asking 1600 and say that they purchased it in 1996. Does this sound like a good deal?


Bruce is right: have it checked out!

Having said that, the P22 was IMHO one of the finest pianos by Yamaha.
The ones I have seen were in great shape and sounded beautiful.

Best of all, they hardly were ever grey-market pianos...

Norbert smile


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The best price I've seen for a P-22 in good shape was $500 . $1600 is about average in my market for a clean piano with good cabinet and bench. Craigslist has been the biggest piano store in town since the recession hit. And you can bet the piano salesman has Craigslist open during his work day, looking for that great deal that he can have the movers pickup right away. Got to be quick to get those great deals. And open on the salesman's other computer would be nothing other than PIANO WORLD !

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Thank you all! I'll have to see if I can get my hubby on board. I dearly would like an acoustic if I can find a good used one, but will settle for buying a new digital if I must. But the thought of sinking money into a technician and what if the piano is no good! What are the chances? That would be awfully disappointing.


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Originally Posted by hello my name is
But the thought of sinking money into a technician and what if the piano is no good!

That's actually why you sink the money into a technician: to find out if the piano is no good, because...

Originally Posted by hello my name is
What are the chances? That would be awfully disappointing.

...sinking 1600 plus the cost of moving it to your home and finding out it's no good would be even more disappointing.


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Also, any acousitc piano will need maintenance, even if you buy new. Work with a tech during the buying process and you're developing what will become an important relationship over the life of the piano.

When you buy from a store (esp a reputable one and one that you trust) you often get intro'ed to a tech there, but when you buy on your own you don't have that relationship starter.

It makes sense to limit the number of pianos you pay a tech to look at, so you limit that outlay of money, but if you have a tech look at one or two, I think that's very reasonable.

And a good existing relationship with a tech may help you in the future when you're looking for a new piano as well.


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Originally Posted by Bob
The best price I've seen for a P-22 in good shape was $500 . $1600 is about average in my market for a clean piano with good cabinet and bench. Craigslist has been the biggest piano store in town since the recession hit. And you can bet the piano salesman has Craigslist open during his work day, looking for that great deal that he can have the movers pickup right away. Got to be quick to get those great deals. And open on the salesman's other computer would be nothing other than PIANO WORLD !

Bob is right-on-target, in my view. Althought Craigslist is frowned-upon by many, by the same token, many techs and dealers use it often. And, he's also right that, quite often, when a really good bargain comes along on CL, the dealers are usually the first ones there; they know what a piano bargain is and what they can make a profit on.

Before my hearing injury, I would surf Craigslist daily, first thing in the morning and last thing in the evening, looking at pianos for sale. Not that I needed or wanted another piano, but just because it was fun and interesting. And, once in a blue-moon, I'd come across a super bargain. I've actually bought a couple of em' over the years; but like Bob said, you do have to act quickly on that bargain piano, or someone else will.

Also, many (most?) dealers use Craigslist to advertise their pianos. Some under the guise of being private sellers. I won't call any names, but I've seen CL ads for pianos by most of the dealers who frequent this forum. And why not? It's free advertising and a lot of exposure to the buying public.

As far as buying a piano from a piano tech, many piano technicians supplement their tuning income by buying, fixing up/repairing and then selling pianos. I think it would be a good source to purchase a piano, if the tech is honest and has a good reputation.

Okay, I guess I've run out of something to say at the moment, which is rare. My morning coffee hasn't quite kicked in yet. grin

All the best!

Rick


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Originally Posted by Rickster
Bob is right-on-target, in my view. Althought Craigslist is frowned-upon by many, by the same token, many techs and dealers use it often. And, he also right that, quite often, when a really good bargain comes along on CL, the dealers are usually the first ones there; they know what a piano bargain is and what they can make a profit on.
If a dealer or tech buys a piano off Craigslist, then they don't have to be concerned if they personally like the tone and touch. They only have to be concerned about the condition and price. But an individual, unless they are not at all fussy, needs to be concerned about their personal preferences for touch and tone. So even if a tech inspection says the piano's condition is OK, that may not be enough to justify buying the piano without playing it personally.

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Remember that our OP is in the Los Angeles Area. It may the worst place for tuners, technicians and dealer snapping up the best deals. I sat across the desk from one dealer who was directing his truck driver, who had cash in hand from piano to piano and was buying on sight as long as no major faults were found. Also, Hello My Name Is, you're going to find a lot of bait and switch with pianos (from Craig's List) that seem to be cheap for how new they are. Good luck. I gave up on CL in L.A. raised my budget a little and bought from a dealer.

Kurt


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How does one find a reputable tech? It seems to me like conflict of interest if a tech/tuner(is it the same thing?) is selling a piano.


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Best way is word-of-mouth. Maybe some folks who know the LA area can suggest some technicians. If not, you can search at www.ptg.org

You're right: there can be a conflict of interest. You want a technician who represents your interests.

You don't have to have every piano inspected, and the more you learn the more easily you'll be able to rule out pianos, but when you find the one you want to buy, you should definitely have it inspected.

KurtZ paints a different sort of picture of the CL market in Los Angeles...not because it's "bad," but because it's very active!


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Originally Posted by hello my name is
How does one find a reputable tech? It seems to me like conflict of interest if a tech/tuner(is it the same thing?) is selling a piano.

It can be a gamble either way...

At some point, if you buy a used piano, (or a new one) you are going to have to trust the seller/tech/dealer/private-seller to some extent. It's not always easy to tell who to trust. I guess you could follow your gut-instincts, or follow someone else's recommendation.

The bottom line is to buy a piano you like. It may not be your dream piano, or the last piano you buy, but you need to like the tone and touch, and appearance enough to justify buying it.

Not to make any of the dealers here mad at me, but I'd be inclined to buy from a private seller more so than a dealer (in terms of a used piano and not a new one). A dealer, whether a used piano dealer advertising on CL, or a piano tuner advertising on CL, are out to make a profit. Yea, the best dealers/sellers want to make the customer happy, but still make a profit. The private seller quite often wants to git rid of the piano, which may or may not be a very nice instrument at a substantially lower price than from a dealer.

My suggestion? Try to strike a balance between what you are looking for, how much you want to pay, and how confident you feel about the seller. And, even if the seller is a jerk, if it's a nice piano at a nice price, you never have to see or interact with the seller again.

Disclaimer... I'm by no means an expert on giving piano buying or playing advice (but I still like to give it... and, it's worth what it cost). smile

Good luck!

Rick

P.S. After I re-read my post I decided to add this; piano dealers are in business to make a profit. There is nothing wrong with that. I meant no criticism, in case some took it that way. In fact, we are all entrepreneurs in some form or fashion. smile


Last edited by Rickster; 08/11/16 08:06 PM. Reason: Add clarity...

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Originally Posted by Rickster
P.S. After I re-read my post I decided to add this; piano dealers are in business to make a profit. There is nothing wrong with that. I meant no criticism, in case some took it that way. In fact, we are all entrepreneurs in some form or fashion. smile


Rick, there is another way of looking at this. When you buy from a dealer, part of the money is for the goods, the piano, part of the money is profit for the people that work there. When you buy from an individual, that person has typically expensed the cost of the piano long ago when they first bought it. In effect, all the money you give to the individual is profit.

I think the real issue here is not related to profit, but to what kind of buyer one is. You are a knowledgeable buyer who enjoys fishing for a great piano. I on the other hand am the kind of buyer who goes to a fish market because I can compare a variety of fish and listen to the person behind the counter talk up the merits of each fish in his selection. In the end, I value the time I save and the selection someone else labors to make available for me. You may value the hunt, the meeting of new people and the chance to find a gem. I will no doubt pay more, but with somewhat lower risk of being disappointed . You will no doubt pay less, but with somewhat higher risk. I don't think profit has much of anything to do with these transactions. It is actually very good for everyone that there are different kinds of buyers supporting two separate supply lines. It is what helps keep prices competitive and more fundamentally, it defines what a competitive price is.


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Originally Posted by SoundThumb
Rick, there is another way of looking at this. When you buy from a dealer, part of the money is for the goods, the piano, part of the money is profit for the people that work there. When you buy from an individual, that person has typically expensed the cost of the piano long ago when they first bought it. In effect, all the money you give to the individual is profit.

I think the real issue here is not related to profit, but to what kind of buyer one is. You are a knowledgeable buyer who enjoys fishing for a great piano. I on the other hand am the kind of buyer who goes to a fish market because I can compare a variety of fish and listen to the person behind the counter talk up the merits of each fish in his selection. In the end, I value the time I save and the selection someone else labors to make available for me. You may value the hunt, the meeting of new people and the chance to find a gem. I will no doubt pay more, but with somewhat lower risk of being disappointed . You will no doubt pay less, but with somewhat higher risk. I don't think profit has much of anything to do with these transactions. It is actually very good for everyone that there are different kinds of buyers supporting two separate supply lines. It is what helps keep prices competitive and more fundamentally, it defines what a competitive price is.

Wow, there's a good lesson in your words, SoundThumb! smile

Economics and common sense at it's best. I took an economics course in college and had no idea it was so complicated. All the mathematical, statistical and model-theory-concepts actually challenged my intellectual ability.

Of course, learning to play the piano is pretty good challenge as well. grin

Excellent comments, and thanks for sharing that piano-buying wisdom!!!

Rick


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It also depends on where in the country you are buying. South Florida is particularly bad. If you are looking for a moderate size grand that helps filter out the near infinite number of poorly maintained spinets. Second, I'm usually looking for a piano core to rebuild with the minimum number of faults. If you are looking at an 80+ year old piano, even one only played by a little old lady on Sundays, you know you have some work in front of you. That being said, getting a Chickering 145 in good shape for a core price is definitely worth it. Yes I still need to rebuild the action, but the acoustics are nice, and I have an instrument worth it's name to play while I work through all of the issues.


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If you've decided you're going to look at a Piano you've inquired about on CL, of course be sure to go with someone else. If not your technician, someone else.

Caution and common sense is of course good advise, but beware that even that may not always be enough.

Of course most transactions will be fine, but there is a scam in every segment on CL, including musical instruments. The higher the ticket item, the more sophisticated the scam. You could play, inspect, love and buy a beautiful concert grand piano that has also been sold to 10 other people and the real owner of it is on vacation.

You can also find good deals smile

just saying ...


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Originally Posted by Greener
If you've decided you're going to look at a Piano you've inquired about on CL, of course be sure to go with someone else. If not your technician, someone else.

Caution and common sense is of course good advise, but beware that even that may not always be enough.

Of course most transactions will be fine, but there is a scam in every segment on CL, including musical instruments. The higher the ticket item, the more sophisticated the scam. You could play, inspect, love and buy a beautiful concert grand piano that has also been sold to 10 other people and the real owner of it is on vacation.

You can also find good deals smile

just saying ...


Words of wisdom, indeed.

Several years ago, when I bought my Yamaha C7, I agreed to travel with and assist the movers for a slight discount in the moving fee. I went to school with the mover, and played little-league bass ball with him, so we knew each other well.

The piano was owned by a large church just over the Georgia-Tennessee line, about a 3 hours drive one-way. The mover asked me if I was sure the piano would be there when we got there. I told him I was not sure of anything but death and taxes. I told him I was very confident that the representatives of the church was trustworthy and they promised to hold the piano for me, after I offered them earnest money.

The mover told me that he had driven hundreds of miles to pick up a grand piano that had been sold to someone else besides the person who hired him to move the piano. So, these kinds of things can happen.

However, my C7 was not a Craigslist piano and I found out about it from another source and rode up to look at it on a Sunday morning and attended the church services as well. Very nice folks...

Moral of the story? The only thing I'm absolutely, 100% sure of is death and taxes. smile

Rick


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How about Ebay folks?

Think they'd let me go try it? It's not exactly Craigslist.. Could it be "the one"? It's a Kawai 350, too old? They're asking 3200.

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I bought our first piano and sold it via Craigslist. I am happy both times because I met quite a few very nice people and families as sellers and buyers. If you have time to try and hire technician to check then I don't see using Craigslist is a bad idea. I would certainly prefer Craigslist to eBay because Craigslist is local and you can access the pianos easily. But as far as I know many private sellers post their ads in eBay as well as in Craigslist. I believe you can also search eBay by setting up the distance criteria.


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