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Would like to hear from other VPC1 owners if you are encountering what I would call excessive keytop "digs" or scratches.

I've had my VPC1 for about a year and a half and have nicked many of the white keys with what are clearly fingernail gouges in the plastic. Now we can go into discussion about my nail hygiene regiment as you please but I can tell you I'm up to par with all that.

I don't have this issue on my upright or on a number of other plastic "synth" type keyboards including my 20 year old Roland A-90 - so I don't think I have a arm/hand/finger/nail control problem and wondering if this is a keytop problem in general.

Thanks for your input.

JB

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JB, welcome to the forum.

The Ivory Touch key surface material is found on a number of Kawai DPs, however I can only recall one or two reports of scratches caused by fingernails. That's not to say that it can never happen, just that it's extremely rare.

My suggestion would be to contact your Kawai dealer/distributor to explain the situation and ask what they would recommend.

Kind regards,
James
x


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Hi JB,
I have a Kawai CA67 for 22 months and since 2 or 3 months ago I started to notice the same. Maybe the surface material on the CA67 is the same as the VPC1 so they share the same problem.
(some photos of the keys here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxRZcgmTYwADMGxpTkYwVjBER3M)
I wouldn't mind if the problem was only aesthetical. The thing is it is a very strange and disagreable feeling playing on a keyboard with this problem.

I wish you a better luck than me with the Kawai customer service. I send the photos and received the following response from the Kawai customer service:
“This kind of traces are known in a few cases. Those are traces of usage and not covered by the warranty. There are two possibilities to remove those traces: One can either try to polish the keys which has the disadvantage that the surface of the keys will look glossy afterwards. Or, the keys can be replaced.”

Like you, I have played on other keyboards an none have the same problem. I have an acoustic piano with more than 100 years (ivory keys), a Yamaha digital keyboard with more than 25 years, and a Korg digital keyboard with almost 6 years. On all these other keyboards the keys are OK and don't show any traces of usage like the ones shown on the Kawai.

I dont know what other people say about Kawai customer service, but for me, this king of attitude is regrettable.
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Ummm, cut your fingernails...?


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Finger nails, finger grease, constant use is going to discolor and wear just about any surface. But it shouldn't happen quickly, and for the most part it shouldn't cause etching or roughness. Certainly not cracks or holes. Check with your Kawai dealer/service center and see if they think these specific key tops were not up to their standards and are willing to replace the keys.

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My Roland's ivory-feel (white) keytops started showing signs of wear after nearly two years of heavy use (I practice around four hours a day), the surfaces roughening slightly. It didn't affect playing (in fact, the grip even improved slightly because of it), but the keys no longer looked pristine.

When I contacted Roland, they replaced them for me under warranty, with their plastic keytops which don't wear at all. They came and carted my digital away in their van, and brought it back within a few days with the replacement keytops. The whole thing was at no cost to me.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
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Tkx for the pix Joaoxana - Your wear/tear isn't as far along as mine is but mine started out very similar. And yes, it's disagreeable to run into these pot holes while playing. Again, I don't have this on any of my other keyboards or my acoustic upright so it's not me.

Agreed on the Kawai (US) support, same response and the reason I posted this question to this forum. They seemed grumpy I would suggest such a thing. I asked about replacement keys and they said that new keys are not available - only those taken from VPC1's that had been returned/repaired - no guarantee of finish quality - which begs the question - why do you have so many used keys available and no new ones?

Here's some of my photos and a shot of my finger (yeah, the middle one) for those who can't get past the obvious.
[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/62n1fhbshdcrfwo/kawai%20pothole.jpg?dl=0[/img]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/acygrbhw21sf0np/AAB0FuFapVicUq7RC0G4sx4ea?dl=0

And the pedal is crap - but thats been covered elsewhere.

Cheers,






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My VPC1 has some of those scratch marks on the white keys. I think it's a materials problem with the Kawai keys. It isn't exactly the most-used keys that show it - it's random among the most-used keys (none at the extremes of the keyboard).

Another thing I note is that the black keys, which came with a nice matte surface, have gotten glossy from use. This is exactly on the most-used keys.


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I have the same scratches on my Kawai CA17, one year old now.

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Hello João,

Thank you for bringing this matter to my attention.

I have checked your pictures and this appears to be a slightly different issue to that shown in jbcb's image.

Originally Posted by joaoxana
I wish you a better luck than me with the Kawai customer service.


May I ask which Kawai customer service centre you contacted, please? If Kawai America, did you purchase the instrument in the US?
If possible, may I kindly ask you to send me a PM with the correspondence you sent/received from the Kawai customer service centre, please? I shall try to investigate this matter and forward your claim to the individual responsible.

Kind regards,
James
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Hello jbcb,

Thank you for the pictures and additional information.

As with joaoxana, may I kindly ask you to PM me the correspondence sent/received from Kawai America so that I can investigate this matter and see what can be done to try to resolve the situation.

Kind regards,
James
x


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joflah, Timpskie, if you have any concerns with your instrument my advice would be to raise them with the Kawai distributor in your country.

Just to reiterate my initial response to jbcb, Kawai manufacturers and sells 1000s of digital pianos each year, many of which feature the 'Ivory Touch' key surface material. I've been an active member of PW for several years, and attend Kawai's digital piano QC analysis meetings every month, however I can only recall seeing a handful of reports of such key wear. Again, that's not to say that it will never happen, just that from my experience, these occurrences are very rare.

Kind regards,
James
x


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This is how the keytops of my CA17 look after one year of playing. I don't know if it's normal for keytops to look that way after one year, and how it will look 5 years from now. It doesn't bother me or affect my playing. My only concern would be if I would want to sell my piano when I'm buying a new one, people wouldn't buy a piano with keys full of scratches.

[img:left]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d...KXkekgdOnEsyyPfH2weyVL_Fg=w1825-h1027-no[/img]
[img:left]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/r...XKFor0ZRTWNfIDLuCWvJ_rinw=w1825-h1027-no[/img]
[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/h...NotUqghK4uylcrqDeE3Jh2Faw=w1825-h1027-no[/img]
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/W...jYQJk0Lh8AY3m7oDuGbsAt4oA=w1825-h1027-no

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Timpskie, I have something very similar on my MP11. I have been concerned about this for some time now. This is interesting that others have noticed the same. Originally I thought it was something that I could clean off (using a microfiber cloth). These "spots" don't go anywhere, they seem to get bigger with time. Hopefully they are okay going forward.


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Really odd...I use my MP11 as my main practicing instrument in the summers only, but I've had mine for 3 years now and have not experienced these issues. But definitely worthwhile bringing up to Kawai USA and seeing if they can replace or repair.

edited to add: and I wouldn't settle for them blaming you. That kind of wear is abnormal.

Last edited by Morodiene; 01/27/17 09:31 AM.

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I put almost a thousand hours in a year on my CA97 and the keys don't look as bad as in the pictures posted, I certainly do not have potholes. The wear is similar to Timpskie's keys but more superficial. I do regularly clip my nails but I play even when they're a bit too long.

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Hi, newbie here

I'm looking to replace my Kawai CN33 and I'm considering the CN37.

However my CN33's keytops are badly scratched as people have noted in this thread. I love everything else about the Kawai pianos, but the prospect of scratched keytops will make me reluctant to buy another.

Does anyone know if Kawai have acknowledged and/or solved this problem since the CN33?

I'm in Australia, Kawai provides a 5 year warranty but excludes transportation costs.

Thanks,
David

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This prob also happened to me, and it seems that Kawai's Ivory keytop wear out quite bad after time of heavy use, but with wooden key action, u can change the keytop pretty easy (but take a lot of time since we have to file the new keytop to their shape, and of course without professional filing machine our new keytop won't look as uniform as when they came out from box). I did change all of my white keytop to the normal plastic polish one, here are some picture, they look awesome and feel nice, cuz mine CA65 is an used one and the keys were scratched so bad
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b1H_kbZvAO_Z3ltf0pWSUsU2yVWSWBuW/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TzFUmW5ivtyOtIdNoOj4JCSqVWHAIJDQ/view?usp=drivesdk


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Hoang: Those links to google drive require permission. The target items are not accessible.

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Thanks Hoang (I can see the pictures). If the second picture is the end result then you've done a very nice job!
While it's good to know there's a solution, it's a pity that it's necessary.

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Originally Posted by HoangCosmic
...it seems that Kawai's Ivory keytop wear out quite bad after time of heavy use...


I'm not sure this is 100% accurate.
Certainly there have been some reports of key wear among Kawai customers, however the exact cause is unclear, and may depend on the player's playing style or possibly even their individual physiology (e.g. the composition of oils and moisture produced by their finger tips etc.).

If you felt the need to replace the key surfaces on your second-hand CA65, that's perfectly fine, however I don't believe this procedure will be necessary for the vast majority of customers.

Kind regards,
James
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Originally Posted by Harmless
Thanks Hoang (I can see the pictures). If the second picture is the end result then you've done a very nice job!
While it's good to know there's a solution, it's a pity that it's necessary.

Yes that's the end result
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Hoang: Those links to google drive require permission. The target items are not accessible.

I turned on the "linkfreigabe" option and I believe anyone with the link can view, you may try again?
Here is one more picture of my finished keytop, tryin to capture the "glossy" look
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RqtVIEQiyNX1Dl4pNZEvif2YU-nRrB9h/view?usp=drivesdk


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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by HoangCosmic
...it seems that Kawai's Ivory keytop wear out quite bad after time of heavy use...


I'm not sure this is 100% accurate.
Certainly there have been some reports of key wear among Kawai customers, however the exact cause is unclear, and may depend on the player's playing style or possibly even their individual physiology (e.g. the composition of oils and moisture produced by their finger tips etc.).

If you felt the need to replace the key surfaces on your second-hand CA65, that's perfectly fine, however I don't believe this procedure will be necessary for the vast majority of customers.

Kind regards,
James
x

Nah everything will eventually worn out, so that's normal I think? The CA65 is ~ 6 years old anyway, and I don't know what on earth the previous owner did. I deleted the picture of my old keytops so unfortunately I can't show you how bad they were, especially on the middle octave, and I was fine with it until it pull out dirt on my finger on some piece and that's so uncomfortable

Last edited by HoangCosmic; 08/22/18 01:12 PM.

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Thanks James for your response. I hope I don't have corrosive bodily fluids!

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Well everyone has, to some extent. Part of learning to play the piano (any piano, real or digital) is to learn washing your hands before playing.

I always do before playing my grand. I am less careful when it comes to my digitals...


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Did anyone get a resolution to this issue? I have a note into Kawai about excessive wear on many keytops on my instrument. I have had quite a few pianos/keyboards over many years and never had this issue before. Cheers Mike

Last edited by Michael Wright; 08/01/21 11:02 AM.
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My CS-11 was showing wear at around 3 years, and I don't play *that much. I'm disappointed to hear it can't be polished out. I'd rather have a homogeneous plastic key that can be polished, but at least the keytops can be replaced.

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