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If you dance with the Devil, don't be surprised when you get burned.

I'm like Mik...I would assume that what can be done, is being done...although I do feel sorry for people who lost money.


TNCR. Over 20 years. Over 2,000,000 posts. And a new site...

https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club

Where pianists and others talk about everything. And nothing.
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In another thread, turandot suggested resurrecting this thread with further information.
Well, that's not what I said, but no matter. :rolleyes:

Monica,

It would be a good thing if the woman who posted that Ripoff Report knew how to file with the court overseeing the bankruptcy. I couldn't see a way to communicate with her through any link on the Ripoff site or I would have done it. Perhaps you could figure something out. That would probably be more useful than simply updating the body count.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
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rip off can happen anywhere...

for example if i bought CitiBank at 10Lots at $25, now is $15 oh O......

I'm poorer by $10000 booo hoo hoo ...


Is there anyway to got to the physical store to salvage anything??


Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
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WTH? I'm away for a month and look what happens. Someone PM me and give me all the details...


Kenny Blankenship
Selling anything anyone will buy as the "Walmartizisation of the industry continues. (Still making a fair living and still having clients like me)
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TW's businesses in bankruptcy.
TW's customers seeking help, some showing up here.
No cash or foodstamps offered here, only rhetoric.
No. Carolina court in control of TW assets. Shorted customers need to file court claims.
TW muzzled by lawyer.
Some PW members state TW's lawyer attempting to muzzle them as well.
PW posse fractured, some building a bonfire while others advise patience.
Ken Knapp placed in thankless position of PW referee.


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In other words, business as usual.


Michael

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He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
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If you have been ripped off by Terry Wilson a/k/a Asaph a/k/a The Piano Superstore please contact Lieutenant Rick Parker of the Rutherfordton City Police Dept at 828-287-5062

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Rebecca,

Are you a customer of PSS who has filed a complaint? Your use of the term "ripped off" hints strongly at this. Do you have any other information to give the board other than a reference to the police?

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The BBB report is now up to 20 complaints, and the BBB says their mail to Terry is being returned as undeliverable. They're advising people with complaints to seek legal advice.

Welcome to the forum, Rebecca. smile Thank you for providing the contact information for those with standing in this matter.

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Hey,

I made a bunch of posts on this board in March and ending in early april when I got my refund. I uh... shed some light on this topic with many copies of emails from the above mentioned business and info direct from the police and other primary sources in the idustry. I can tell you, this can be a rough forum for victims.

my posts were removed for Terry's saftey, It seems either of two things happened, some forum members could not control their anger and began to harras Terry and his family, or Terry contacted the forum with claims of harrassment in order to give reason to remove the posts. It does not matter which is true, the fact is the documentation I provided on this forum is now locked. For those of you who remember I posted under the name Rob.

For those of you who believe you have been victimised but are told here you will have to accept pennies on the dollar due to bankrupty, dont accept it. I didn't accept it. In fact I knew there was a bankruptcy and disclosed it with supporting contact information for verification and was still attacked for "spreadng rumors" in March of 08. It's nice to see the forum now accepts this as the truth. It certainly does not pay to stand up for yourself or for the public here even when spoon feeding info and sources to this forum.

So how did I get my money? Well bankruptcy does not protect businesses or individuals if certain conditions are met. I believed these conditions were met in my particular situation and had the supporting documentation to back up my claims. I contacted the local police department with the information I had which I disceminated months ago on this forum. Within days, I had my money sent certified mail on April 1st 2008. Keep in mind this was after the bankruptcy was filed.

do not believe for a second that bankruptcy is any protection if you have been wronged. Unfortunatly, this post will probibly be removed as my others have been if I elaborate any further. And as the rest of you who remember me know, I can elaborate for pages on the topic.

I'm breaking my silence to make sure no one listens to those who tell them there is no way to seek justice here. These are forum members who post with out checking the facts. They have never seen any source documents for this business' inventory or their orders. They know nothing. There most certainly is a path to justice if not money. I do however admitt you may not see money any time soon if you have been wronged. That turnip thin again.

I will not repeat the what I posted in March and April. I'm not here to be abused or to warn others about the company as it no longer appears to opperate (Note: I was doing both of these in March and April, that is, being abused by the forum and warning others). I'm just posting to unequivically refute any statements to the tune of "accept defeat because a bankruptsy was filed".

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Rob,

There is a certain irony in hearing that that there is no way to seek justice here. In a technical sense, of course one cannot seek justice in a forum. That's what the courts are for.

But when you argue that 'the forum' protects TW, and others argue that 'the forum' (or the posse, take your pick) harasses and defames TW, some of us just feel a little whiplash!

There is a diversity of opinion here. The 'forum' is not an intellectual monolith. If you have more information, please do give it. A wealth of information and opinion about the PSS saga remains available in the archives. It isn't all locked up.

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Your right, Dad.

There was plenty of warnings about the PSS business practices. I'm not saying that anyone got what they deserved, but anyone who cared to read were warned.


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Not sure where you were going with the irony bit about not beinag able to seek justice here. Do you mean the forums? Do you think I'm complaining about not being able to seek justice on the forums? if so, you may want to reread my post.

There is justice and I got with the help of the law, it's still there to be had through the law. Justice is certainly not what forums are for and vigulanty actions are reprehenible. That being said it is false to believe a forum cannot help the hand of justice. This type of forum can post necessary information that will help bring true resolution to victims ( the stuff that can do that is locked now) and warn others if they have a chance to read. It's also where you can find contact information like Lieutenant Rick Parker of the Rutherfordton City Police Dept at 828-287-5062. This is where you need to go to see justice served if you believe you have been wronged.


The primary sources and emails I gave that led to my refund immediately after handing it to the police are indeed locked on this forum. The other information available on the forum seems to be mostly speculation. Note: my posts were locked but I got my money. There was hard information in those posts that lead to this justice despite the bunkruptcy.

I don't think I ever argued PW protects Terry Wilson, In fact I think I commented on how forum members here have allegedly harassesd the man. You are indeed very hard to follow if logic has anything to do with interpreting your written word. I'd like you to cite where I argue this forum protects TW. This is where you totally lost me.

Oh, and Im sorry if any of you feel I got what I deserved. I had not read the forums untill long after I ordered And I ordered online because I was in sector with an infantry company 6 days a week 24 hours a day when I ordered. I thought more of American business men at the time and I will not make that mistake again. Sorry for not doing more reseach while doging bullets and IEDs.

None of the above responses change the absolute truth that bankruptsy was filed but it had no effect for me because I had the cold hard facts in my hands that are now locked on the forums This is the purpose of the post.

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Rob,

You have completely misunderstood what I said. I guess I was too cryptic and made too many assumptions.

Let me elaborate:

You said this directly.

Quote
do not believe for a second that bankruptcy is any protection if you have been wronged. Unfortunatly, this post will probibly be removed as my others have been if I elaborate any further.
This seems to me a pretty clear statement that you think it was YOUR posted information that CAUSED the thread to be pulled, and that the forum itself (presumably Ken and/or Frank) is unwilling to countenance negative information about PSS based on your experience.

I seriously doubt that simply posting factual information about how people could seek redress in ways that have not already been discussed or tried would warrant pulling your posts.

The point I was making (seconded by Steve) is that there is a tremendous amount of information about PSS available here in the archives. A number of us have been quite skeptical about PSS and have made that clear. Some have questioned us and our motives. It's all there to be seen.

Indeed, some threads have been locked (but are still available). But very few have been pulled completely.

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Well what a coincidence. I have been away playing about on boats for months, and one of the last things I remember reading before I left was Rob telling us about how he had been blown up and shot at, whilst railing against American business practices.

Next thing I know, Terry of the made up German Ellenburger (or something like that) brand fame, is apparently in Chapter 13.

Is the lawyer guy who posted here and bought one of Terry's pianos, still representing him? I can't recollect his name.

Glad to see that Monica and P*D are still alive and kicking.

Kind regards

Adrian


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I do not think that it is about body counts here, or useless private vengeance from the one or the other.

It is about a lesson that can be learned and to give this sort of information is one of the things for which a forum exists, and one of the most useful.

PSS has repeatedly lied on this board by boasting sales that were not there and money that was not there.

In Italy to deceive your clients and business partners about your financial situation and to deceitfully stretch the point at which one declares bankruptcy is not "simple bankruptcy" (bancarotta semplice), but fraudulent bankruptcy (bancarotta fraudolenta): this is serious crime which can easily send one in jail for a couple of years.

I do not know how it is in the US, but it seems to me that Terry has continued to *actively propagate* a completely deceitful picture of his activity when the situation on the field was already desperate and it had to be obvious to him that it was.

The willful lying is a behaviour which cannot be justified in any way and the straits in which the business found itself at the times do not even begin to justify lies. On the contrary, it is honesty which begets business, and lies which beget troubles.

AJB, I do not whether you were being ironic, anyway the chap in question is Mark J, whom I found always attentive and in perfect good faith. I am uncertain as to whether he now regrets having accepted to help him, I'd rather think he deserves better clients.

When he accepted to work for terry/asaph, Mark J stated that his new vest would not allow him to post on the matter aymore.

Why he stopped posting altogether after that I do not know, but certainly these fora are a big time eater, I for myself have greatly reduced my time here just because, great as this forum is, there are so many more things to do and one must pay attention to how one allocates his own time and to not sit in front of the screen forever.
---------------------------------------------
One last thing I'd like to ask: if Terry pops up here again with his next piano venture, we are legally allowed to remind the other forum participants of the PSS precedent, aren't we? I think a forum is here also for such things: to allow every participate to benefit from the experiences of other participants and hear both sides of everything.


"The man that hath no music in himself / Nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds / Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils." (W.Shakespeare)

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I was not being ironic about Mark J. I agree he seemed a straight guy. I was being ironic about Rob because his tales of derring do in the service of his country were irrelevant to his complaint. Lots of people serve their country (and get paid for that choice they have freely made) but it does not mean they are entitled to different treatment as consumers. My message therefore was stick to the pertinent facts, and stay off the irrelevant stuff aimed at garnering sympathy.

I have poked fun at Terry many times in the past about his ridiculous piano branding. However, this board always enjoys a rolling bandwagon to jump onto and I suspect that the truth of Terry's business dealings is known only to a few.

Much of the sniping in the past was because of his blatant self promotion. But quite a bit of the crossfire was from other dealers. Some dealers seem to have a limitless capacity for causing further loss of consumer confidence in an industry that is in deep recession.

Kind regards

Adrian


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Some of the lessons learned through the PSS affair would should be kept in mind in re East Coast Piano's seeming reincarnation as World Wide Pianos.


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Quote
Originally posted by Innominato:
One last thing I'd like to ask: if Terry pops up here again with his next piano venture, we are legally allowed to remind the other forum participants of the PSS precedent, aren't we?
You can say anything you want, Innominato, as long as it is true. But it is also true that Frank and the other moderators can choose to close or move any thread to the restricted archives whenever they want. It's Frank's forum, after all. wink It is also true that anybody can choose to sue anybody, or threaten to sue somebody, for anything at all.

It's a great country. smile

However, I do agree with you that this forum can serve a useful purpose in educating people about pianos and piano dealers. In the past when people would post about the P$$, I would routinely link to relevant threads involving concerns raised about the company, with the goal that shoppers could read them and then decide for themselves whether they wished to do business with Terry. I also was roundly criticized by turandot, and others, for "dragging those old threads up again." I don't regret doing so, though, and I would do so again should circumstances dictate.

Welcome back, Adrian. smile I think you are being a little harsh on Rob2. I have tried to find his original threads, but I believe they are among the ones that didn't get merely closed but moved entirely to the restricted archives. My memory of those threads is that Rob did not raise the issue of his military service until he was criticized here for buying from P$$ without doing due diligence.

And, Rob, I do think you suffered more than your fair share of blaming the victim back when you originally posted. I am very glad you got your money back. I also appreciate your efforts back then, and now, to warn others of problems with P$$. On a happier note, did you ever find another piano elsewhere to buy? smile

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And Rob, regardless of any piano-related issues, THANK YOU for your service to our country! thumb


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Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
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