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#2934104 01/15/20 09:29 AM
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New from Roland: Nice size for gigs:

https://www.roland.com/global/products/rd-88/

[Linked Image]

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Looks like a great stage piano for gigs indeed, as I wrote in the other thread about NAMM. If I started purchasing gear for gigs (before I already got a SL73 and a MODX6), that would be my choice.


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Is there any info about the sound engine?...they say 'Supernatural'. It sounds, from the harsh metallic clanking in the demos, like the sample based original Supernatural pianos. Although they also state "newly developed" piano sounds. If the piano sounds are okay, i.e., don't have either the synthy fakeness of Roland fully modelled pianos or the metallic twanging of the original Supernatural pianos, it would be a very attractive product indeed. Here's hoping they've tweaked the piano sound problems out of it.

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Sorry Gene, did not see you post. But I think this was a good move on Roland's part meeting needs of giggers and buskers for sure. The small onboard speakers are nice touch for practice and traveling.

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Originally Posted by Marko in Boston
Sorry Gene, did not see you post. But I think this was a good move on Roland's part meeting needs of giggers and buskers for sure. The small onboard speakers are nice touch for practice and traveling.


Seems like stage pianos with built-in speakers are becoming a bit of trend. First the SV2, now the RD-88. Who's next ?

Last edited by ChrisGoesPiano; 01/15/20 09:49 AM.

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EssBrace #2934120 01/15/20 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Is there any info about the sound engine?...they say 'Supernatural'. It sounds, from the harsh metallic clanking in the demos, like the sample based original Supernatural pianos. Although they also state "newly developed" piano sounds. If the piano sounds are okay, i.e., don't have either the synthy fakeness of Roland fully modelled pianos or the metallic twanging of the original Supernatural pianos, it would be a very attractive product indeed. Here's hoping they've tweaked the piano sound problems out of it.

Indeed, the acoustic piano in the demos sounds a bit metallic which is probably the non-fully-modeled SN-piano (what a mouthful!) from the past 😒 Also, the Rhodes piano has that rubbery/plinky quality that's also a shame since it's the modeled Rhodes they started using instead of their previous great sampled Rhodes 😡 There's no perfect board I think. I hate the sampled Rhodes in my MODX and I was at the verge of getting rid of the MODX after being frustrated with it at many fronts but I discovered Yamaha had released a free 400MB sample library with sampled Chick Corea's Mark V and I experimented with it the last night and was really pleasantly surprised by it, so for the moment I'm staying with it. But this RD88 is a very tempting instrument.


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Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano

Seems like stage pianos with built-in speakers are becoming a bit of trend. First the SV2, now the RD-88. Who's next ?


True, Not to get off RD88 topic, but I like the trend. The RD88 speakers look exceptionally small compared to other slabs, yet onboard speakers are still "ok" for monitoring and practice, especially when travelling. Maybe even some slabs good enough for small gig in classroom, retirement home, or coffee shop. My Kawai ES7 speakers filled a small-to-medium room nicely. I think there always has been and will be a market for stage pianos with onboard speakers. I would really like to see the king of onboard speakers gets a long overdue update. I am referring to the Yamaha CP300. Those speakers could fill a room for sure. Still see that board out there at a lot of places.

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Hmm? You can't judge the sound by that video. Anyone notice in the demo it is plugged into mainstage?


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CyberGene #2934156 01/15/20 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Is there any info about the sound engine?...they say 'Supernatural'. It sounds, from the harsh metallic clanking in the demos, like the sample based original Supernatural pianos. Although they also state "newly developed" piano sounds. If the piano sounds are okay, i.e., don't have either the synthy fakeness of Roland fully modelled pianos or the metallic twanging of the original Supernatural pianos, it would be a very attractive product indeed. Here's hoping they've tweaked the piano sound problems out of it.

Indeed, the acoustic piano in the demos sounds a bit metallic which is probably the non-fully-modeled SN-piano (what a mouthful!) from the past 😒 Also, the Rhodes piano has that rubbery/plinky quality that's also a shame since it's the modeled Rhodes they started using instead of their previous great sampled Rhodes 😡 There's no perfect board I think. I hate the sampled Rhodes in my MODX and I was at the verge of getting rid of the MODX after being frustrated with it at many fronts but I discovered Yamaha had released a free 400MB sample library with sampled Chick Corea's Mark V and I experimented with it the last night and was really pleasantly surprised by it, so for the moment I'm staying with it. But this RD88 is a very tempting instrument.


It's hard to say from the video. It looks to me like this is a scaled-down descendent of the RD-800. I've managed to customize the acoustic and tine pianos into pretty usable versions. It stays in my studio due to weight and size, but the RD-88 may be a giggle version of the 800. Same action, which is pretty enjoyable to play and relatively accurate for a digital instrument.

The form factor, weight and simplicity are plusses for live play. Speakers seem tiny, but we will have to wait until they get out into the wild.

The MainStage integration is by design according to the website. Interesting move.


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I'm glad to see a real button interface, a move away from either scrolling or using the piano keys as controls, as has gotten so common on the lightweight slabs. Probably has real (5-pin DIN) MIDI, too.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Mike
...but the RD-88 may be a giggable version of the 800. Same action, which is pretty enjoyable to play and relatively accurate for a digital instrument..


But is it the same action? What's in RD-800 - PHA-IV Concert? If RD-88 has PHA-IV Standard then it's a completely different action with much shorter pivots and would be the same as FP10 and FP30, i.e., Roland's current cheapest action. It's perfectly fine for what it is but not the same as RD-800 (if my guess is right).

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Is it slimmer than Privia PX-S? Is it? 😉

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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Is it slimmer than Privia PX-S? Is it? 😉

RD-88
1,284 (W) x 258 (D) x 159 (H) mm
50-9/16 (W) x 10-3/16 (D) x 6-5/16 (H) inches
13.5 kg / 29 lbs 13 oz

PX-S3000
1,322 (W) x 232 (D) x 102 (H) mm
52 (W) x 9 (D) x 4 inch (H) inches
11.2 kg (exclude batteries) / 24.7 lb (exclude batteries)


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Originally Posted by Marko in Boston
New from Roland: Nice size for gigs:

https://www.roland.com/global/products/rd-88/

[Linked Image]


Yet another SuperNatural. Someone should tell Roland engineers that the SuperNatural piano sounds like an advanced toy piano sound. LOL yet another repacking done by Roland.


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Roland lists their stage pianos in this order, which leaves a lot of room for replacement products above and below the RD-88's US$1200 price point. I wonder if we'll see an RD-64 again?

1. V-Piano
2. RD-2000 US$2500
3. RD-800
4. RD-88 US$1200
5. RD-300NX

Interestingly, the FP-60 at US$1500 is very competitive with the RD-88. Though the FP-60 does emphasize 'piano' features while the RD-88 emphasizes features for the 'stage'.


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Abdol #2934252 01/15/20 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Abdol
LOL yet another repacking done by Roland.

Keyboard development is almost always evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Especially at lower price points. The last Roland piano that was truly new was the $7000 (?) V-Piano over ten years ago. But that's still better than most other companies. What was the last piano from Yamaha, Korg, Kawai, Nord, or Kurzweil that was not largely a repackaging of something they had done before? Still, over time, the small changes add up, and the current boards are generally better than the boards of 20+ years ago. Not different from most other tech, really.

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Abdol
LOL yet another repacking done by Roland.

Keyboard development is almost always evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Especially at lower price points. The last Roland piano that was truly new was the $7000 (?) V-Piano over ten years ago. But that's still better than most other companies. What was the last piano from Yamaha, Korg, Kawai, Nord, or Kurzweil that was not largely a repackaging of something they had done before? Still, over time, the small changes add up, and the current boards are generally better than the boards of 20+ years ago. Not different from most other tech, really.


There is no point in introducing a new keyboard if it is the same thing as the already existing ones. Reducing the price of the old keyboards will do the same thing. This is called ripping off costumers in my dictionary. How many lines of keyboards one company needs?

It has nothing to do with evolution and revolution. It is all about making money and maximizing the profit from an already retired technology.

The price tag isn't going to make an instrument sound good. V-Piano was great a decade ago. Any demo I've listened to so far, from high to low-quality sounds synthesized.

Instead of throwing keyboards like spaghetti noodles at the wall, Roland can focus on improving SuperNatural sounds and offer better sounds but it constantly fails in this very important department.

Last edited by Abdol; 01/15/20 02:48 PM.

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Abdol #2934286 01/15/20 03:21 PM
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Abdol, it’s the most compact and lightweight RD (i.e. professional, in contrast to home pianos from the FP-series) Roland stage piano that also adds speakers. The closest Roland piano is RD-300NX which is longer, wider and much heavier without even having speakers. It’s a very welcome addition to their RD-line and the price is very good.


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Abdol #2934294 01/15/20 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Abdol
There is no point in introducing a new keyboard if it is the same thing as the already existing ones. Reducing the price of the old keyboards will do the same thing. This is called ripping off costumers in my dictionary.

If they could just reduce the price of old keyboards, there would be no point to spending money on the R&D and fabrication costs of a new model. Obviously, this is not the same as any existing model.

I'm not in the market right now, but if I were, to me, this is the most appealing piano Roland has come out with in probably 10 years. Heck, in terms of a piano that's under 30 lbs, you'd probably have to go back almost 20 years to the RS-9 for a decent really lightweight 88 (and that didn't even have a hammer action). Even the slightly heavier FP-4 is I think 13 years old, and that was the last "light" Roland piano that had any interest for me whatsoever. I won't know until I see a manual and get my fingers and ears around one, but potentially, this looks like the best gigging piano Roland has ever made. Lightweight, speakers, pitch and mod controls, MIDI master keyboard functions (presumably MIDI zoning and assignable controls), what looks like a decent number of direct patch selection buttons, line input, DIN MIDI as well as USB, multiple pedal support, and whether it's to your particular taste or not, a perfectly usable piano sound and a variety of other sounds. It may not be something you care about, but to me, on paper, this is pretty killer.

Originally Posted by Abdol
Instead of throwing keyboards like spaghetti noodles at the wall, Roland can focus on improving SuperNatural sounds and offer better sounds but it constantly fails in this very important department.

You're making a lot of assumptions. There's no calculus that says that, if they didn't do this kind of repackaging, they would have been able to come out with better sounds. They may still be working on better sounds, or conversely, they may not know how to make supernatural any better than it is (at least with current technology at marketable prices). Or maybe they found that the number of buyers choosing a non-Roland DP because they didn't like the sounds was smaller than the number of buyers choosing a non-Roland DP because Roland didn't have something light enough with a usable live interface. We're just not in a position to know these things. But we'll know whether they made a good decision once we see whether or not it becomes a strong seller.

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It's always interesting to read a Roland thread online. They're extremely popular in the real world, I see them everywhere and honestly feels like I see them in YouTube videos more than any other brand besides Yamaha and yet on forums everyone seems to hate them and call them "metallic" and "synthy". V-piano sounds great to me in most videos (especially played by marasy) though I've never heard one in person, and so does the RD-2000. RD-88 sounds okay to me. Not the best but not awful. Most interesting thing about this to me is that it's compatible with Zen-Core https://www.roland.com/us/company/press_releases/2020/ROLAND-UNVEILS-ZEN-CORE-SYNTHESIS-SYSTEM/

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With the forthcoming system updates, owners of FANTOM 6/7/8 Synthesizers (Version 1.50*), JUPITER-X Series Synthesizers (Version 1.10) and RD-88 Stage Pianos will be able to start using the same compatible sounds across all models, adding a new collaborative capability to their instruments. An update for the MC-101 and MC-707 GROOVEBOXES will also be available in Q2 2020, with an update planned for AX-EDGE later this year.

ZEN-Core base engine tones created on one instrument can be shared with other users or transferred into completely different compatible Roland hardware. Performers can take sounds made on a FANTOM and play them in the spotlight on an AX-Edge Keytar, or perform a JUPITER-X synth patch on an RD-88, dramatically simplifying setup and expanding tonal options. Sounds are easily shared with a bandmate or co-creator, even when using different compatible Roland hardware. With ZEN-Core, users have access to the sounds they want, in the format they want, wherever they produce or perform.

Last edited by Kougeru; 01/15/20 04:10 PM. Reason: Added quote from the site I linked
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Abdol, it’s the most compact and lightweight RD (i.e. professional, in contrast to home pianos from the FP-series) Roland stage piano that also adds speakers. The closest Roland piano is RD-300NX which is longer, wider and much heavier without even having speakers. It’s a very welcome addition to their RD-line and the price is very good.


RD-300NX is a much nicer keyboard. A good amp and a nice set of speakers are definitely heavy. Just by reading the weight I can tell you that those speakers are toys. RD300 is 3kg heavier and Roland could make a refined version of it instead of RD-88.

Originally Posted by Kougeru
It's always interesting to read a Roland thread online. They're extremely popular in the real world, I see them everywhere and honestly feels like I see them in YouTube videos more than any other brand besides Yamaha and yet on forums everyone seems to hate them and call them "metallic" and "synthy". V-piano sounds great to me in most videos (especially played by marasy) though I've never heard one in person, and so does the RD-2000. RD-88 sounds okay to me. Not the best but not awful. Most interesting thing about this to me is that it's compatible with Zen-Core https://www.roland.com/us/company/press_releases/2020/ROLAND-UNVEILS-ZEN-CORE-SYNTHESIS-SYSTEM/

Quote
With the forthcoming system updates, owners of FANTOM 6/7/8 Synthesizers (Version 1.50*), JUPITER-X Series Synthesizers (Version 1.10) and RD-88 Stage Pianos will be able to start using the same compatible sounds across all models, adding a new collaborative capability to their instruments. An update for the MC-101 and MC-707 GROOVEBOXES will also be available in Q2 2020, with an update planned for AX-EDGE later this year.

ZEN-Core base engine tones created on one instrument can be shared with other users or transferred into completely different compatible Roland hardware. Performers can take sounds made on a FANTOM and play them in the spotlight on an AX-Edge Keytar, or perform a JUPITER-X synth patch on an RD-88, dramatically simplifying setup and expanding tonal options. Sounds are easily shared with a bandmate or co-creator, even when using different compatible Roland hardware. With ZEN-Core, users have access to the sounds they want, in the format they want, wherever they produce or perform.


It doesn't actually say anything about what ZEN-core is and I really don't want to waste my time with any articles from Yamaha, Korg, Roland etc anymore.


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I thought it was pretty clear what it was but if you don't want to read that's your decision.

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Originally Posted by Abdol
RD-300NX is a much nicer keyboard. A good amp and a nice set of speakers are definitely heavy. Just by reading the weight I can tell you that those speakers are toys. RD300 is 3kg heavier and Roland could make a refined version of it instead of RD-88.

It's a 4 KG difference, plus bulkier (about 6" wider and 3" deeper). And it has the Ivory Feel G which I consider the worst feeling hammer action Roland ever made. And it has fewer front panel controls. And no speakers (toy speakers can still be more useful than no speakers).

In a sense, this IS a refined version of an RD-300NX. A much improved version, as I see it.

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About the speakers, it may be that those apertures are for the tweeters. The specs say it has two 2cm tweeters (dome?) and two 12cm "full-range" speakers, probably pointed downwards.


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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Rusty Mike
...but the RD-88 may be a giggable version of the 800. Same action, which is pretty enjoyable to play and relatively accurate for a digital instrument..


But is it the same action? What's in RD-800 - PHA-IV Concert? If RD-88 has PHA-IV Standard then it's a completely different action with much shorter pivots and would be the same as FP10 and FP30, i.e., Roland's current cheapest action. It's perfectly fine for what it is but not the same as RD-800 (if my guess is right).


PHA-4 Standard action is the same of FP-10 and FP-30. Some of the cheapest models. Perhaps would be better to purchase an FP-10.


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So, ZEN-Core is a PCM + VA synth engine that allows patches to be interchangeable and the RD-88 allows for installing these patches. It remains unclear whether that means memory for additional waveforms or just reconfiguration of the existing ones and the VA-parameters. But even the presence of configurable VA-engine in a lightweight stage piano in the $1000 price range is already a serious thing. So, it’s much better than a RD-300NX.


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Roland gets a lot of flak in the synth community for not bending their knee to the analog/re-issue revival (and to some extent in the piano community for not using pure sample approach) but I have to admit I admire their tendency to not look back.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
even the presence of configurable VA-engine in a lightweight stage piano in the $1000 price range is already a serious thing. So, it’s much better than a RD-300NX.

Yes... it looks like this will be the least expensive 88 that includes any kind of VA synth engine. The next ones up would be Kurzweil SP6 and Roland FA-08. Each will have its unique benefits, but besides price, this will probably have the best action of the three, and is the only one with speakers.

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Originally Posted by dihelson
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Rusty Mike
...but the RD-88 may be a giggable version of the 800. Same action, which is pretty enjoyable to play and relatively accurate for a digital instrument..


But is it the same action? What's in RD-800 - PHA-IV Concert? If RD-88 has PHA-IV Standard then it's a completely different action with much shorter pivots and would be the same as FP10 and FP30, i.e., Roland's current cheapest action. It's perfectly fine for what it is but not the same as RD-800 (if my guess is right).


PHA-4 Standard action is the same of FP-10 and FP-30. Some of the cheapest models.

And the FP-60. Not one of the cheapest models.

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Which action is it?


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Originally Posted by rintincop
Which action is it?

“PHA-4 Standard Keyboard: with Escapement and Ivory Feel” Same as on the FP10, FP30, FP60 and A88 MKII


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Originally Posted by Fleer
Originally Posted by dihelson
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Rusty Mike
...but the RD-88 may be a giggable version of the 800. Same action, which is pretty enjoyable to play and relatively accurate for a digital instrument..


But is it the same action? What's in RD-800 - PHA-IV Concert? If RD-88 has PHA-IV Standard then it's a completely different action with much shorter pivots and would be the same as FP10 and FP30, i.e., Roland's current cheapest action. It's perfectly fine for what it is but not the same as RD-800 (if my guess is right).


PHA-4 Standard action is the same of FP-10 and FP-30. Some of the cheapest models.

And the FP-60. Not one of the cheapest models.


Not the same action of RD-800, which have PHA-4 CONCERT. RD88 has PHA-4 standard, the cheapest one installed on FP-10, FP-30. RD 800 is another level.


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It looks like the RD-88 uses a tweaked version of the older SuperNatural sounds (sampling+modeling). But the Zen-Core engine can run the V-Piano/PureAcoustic piano models - on the Fantom series. Perhaps it's also true for the Zen-Core engine on the RD-88; which would be an interesting choice by Roland to make the V-Piano models optional ...

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ZEN-CORE EXPANSION | V-PIANO | (FANTOM SERIES)
Natural. Seamless. Perfect. Piano.

Featuring Roland’s unique piano modeling technology, the V-Piano ZEN-Core Expansion for the FANTOM Series allows every note played to respond and evolve naturally, seamlessly, and perfectly. With V-Piano technology on the FANTOM, there is no velocity switching and it provides a smooth, natural decay that must be heard to be believed.

The V-Piano ZEN-Core Expansion offers unparalleled personalization of each Piano tone. Using the language of acoustic piano, V-Piano technology provides for customization of various overall resonance elements including string, damper, sound board, cabinet, and key-off, as well as key-specific control of tuning, level, character, and more.

The V-Piano Expansion for ZEN-Core takes full advantage of the immense processing power of Roland’s proprietary BMC chip to provide full polyphony for rich, authentic, and perfectly accurate performance.


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And again, same action as in the $1500 FP-60.

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Actually the announcement today about ZEN-CORE has huge implications for this board. One of the things I liked about my Kurzweil SP6 is the fact that it can be loaded with sounds created for any Kurzweil from the Forte SE to the PC3 series. With ZEN-CORE the RD-88 can use patches for the new Fantom and Jupiter X and you can openly collaborate and share sounds from any product. And the AXE-Edge and MC101 & MC107 will have this with upcoming updates. That makes this stage piano a whole lot more flexible.

Last edited by Kbeaumont; 01/16/20 10:36 AM.

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Kbeaumont #2934708 01/16/20 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
Actually the announcement today about ZEN-CORE has huge implications for this board. One of the things I liked about my Kurzweil SP6 is the fact that it can be loaded with sounds created for any Kurzweil from the Forte SE to the PC3 series. With ZEN-CORE the RD-88 can use patches for the new Fantom and Jupiter X and you can openly collaborate and share sounds from any product. And the AXE-Edge and MC101 & MC107 will have this with upcoming updates. That makes this stage piano a whole lot more flexible.


Indeed! Actually it is now that I realize SP6 is similarly priced, lightweight and supports VA-synthesis (although that requires an external editor if you need to make your own synth patches). I'm not sure if the RD88 has sample memory for user libraries or it will allow only for patches using the present waveforms.

As to the keyboard action, one should not forget it's an entry-level and lightweight stage piano. Yamaha do the same, their CP73 also has the cheap GHS keyboard. And honestly, when testing GHS pianos against FP-30 in a store, purely from touch point of view to me the FP30 is superior than GHS-equipped pianos.

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/16/20 10:41 AM.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
As to the keyboard action, one should not forget it's an entry-level and lightweight stage piano. Yamaha do the same, their CP73 also has the cheap GHS keyboard. And honestly, when testing GHS pianos against FP-30 in a store, purely from touch point of view to me the FP30 is superior than GHS-equipped pianos.


The CP73 has the new BHS keyboard, Balanced Hammer Standard. What exactly that is, I'm not sure.


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Originally Posted by torhu
Originally Posted by CyberGene
As to the keyboard action, one should not forget it's an entry-level and lightweight stage piano. Yamaha do the same, their CP73 also has the cheap GHS keyboard. And honestly, when testing GHS pianos against FP-30 in a store, purely from touch point of view to me the FP30 is superior than GHS-equipped pianos.


The CP73 has the new BHS keyboard, Balanced Hammer Standard. What exactly that is, I'm not sure.

It's not graded like the GHS emulating a piano. Simple as that.


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Originally Posted by JoeT
It's not graded like the GHS emulating a piano. Simple as that.
Simple? If only...


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What kind of keybed do the Roland FA-08 and Juno DS 88 have ? Is this also some version of the PHA-4 or something else ? For what it's worth, both the FA and the Juno get praised a lot for the quality of the keybed, the 'Ivory Feel G' keybed...


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It's the replacement for the Ivory Feel G, basically. But I haven't tried it yet.


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The FA-08 & DS88 have the Ivory Feel-G Hammer-action. The RD-88 has the PHA-4 Standard Keyboard with Escapement and Ivory Feel which is the same as the RD800. I much prefer this action to the action on my FA-08! The action on those are the lower level, while the PHA-4 is in the middle between the Ivory G and the PHA-50. The key bed on the RD-2000 & FP90 have the PHA-50 keybed (weighted Progressive Hammer Action) but would be too heavy to be described as a light weight piano, FP-90 weighs 52lbs . Personally I like the PHA-4 better.

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The rd800 has the PHA-4 Concert, which is different from the PHA-4 Standard in the RD88


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Okay so what is the difference between PHA-4 Concert Keyboard: with Escapement and Ebony/Ivory Feel & PHA-4 Standard Keyboard with Escapement and Ivory Feel?
According to this from user Shawncou.zx not much:
[Linked Image]

It certainty isn't their cheapest action.


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Originally Posted by Fleer
And again, same action as in the $1500 FP-60.


And the HP702 (and some other models if you want to include home pianos).

Peculiar - rather than realising that Roland has put a good action into it’s most affordable pianos... some people are calling it their ‘cheapest’ action.

So imagine Roland had put PHA-50 into the FP-10 (just as an example), instead of being excited that a very good action is in their most affordable model, people may complain that the FP-90 has the ‘cheapest’ action.

I guess perception works both ways... but there are more components/elements to a DP than its action.

PS - Personally, I found the PHA-4 standard a bit hard on my fingers but there are people out there who like it.

PPS - The action they chose to put in it may well have been to keep the weight down for portability. I’m not sure their plastic/wood hybrid action (I know, now I’m going to get shot for using the H word) would have been light enough.

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Hadn't realised that the PHA-4 had escapement as well as triple sensor... In conjunction with the RPU triple pedal, it might be something to consider for a DP to complement my MP11SE... Will need to buy a stand with a second tier to accomodate some kind of music rest, though...
Only thing to find out is if the speakers would be up to scratch for use for practice in a home environment...
Although, 2x6W, that's weaker than the PX-S1000.

Sigh, guess I'd better get the Casio, to tide me over until I move to my appartment in a couple of years. I'll sell both the Kawai and the Casio then and probably get a hybrid smile

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If the RD-88 has 3000 sounds (as I read somewhere) and is able to run Roland’s newest Zen Core engine (and, who knows, even SuperNatural strings and brass) then I’m all over it.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Actually it is now that I realize SP6 is similarly priced, lightweight and supports VA-synthesis

Yes, SP6 would be a significant competitor here. But at current U.S. prices, the Roland costs about 20% less. And it has speakers, and probably better action. (The SP6 has other advantages of its own, of course.)

The closest direct competitor might be the Casio PX-560. Same price (U.S.) for a lightweight board with speakers and a wide variety of sounds. Each has some significant features the other does not. Roland has much better MIDI controller functionality, and when it comes to splits/layers, you can put independent insert effects on three parts (vs. only one part being able to have its own effects on the Casio), and of course the VA synth function you mention (PX-560 lacks even a monophonic synth mode). Casio has advantages of its own, though, including more split/layer parts (4, which can even be extended to 24 with hexlayers, whereas Roland is 3), full on-board sound editing (it looks like the only deep editing on the Roland might be to own another zen-core board that has editing), and built-in sequencer.

Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano
Although, 2x6W, that's weaker than the PX-S1000.

The difference between 6 watts and 8 watts does not tell you which speakers will have better sound quality, or better highe end or low end frequency response, , or even which ones will play louder (even if they're both measuring watts the same way, which may or may not be the case),since differences in speaker design (efficiency) can mean that some speakers can be louder than some other speakers at half the power (or less). People will need to use their ears to make a real comparison here. (Same when it comes to the actual qualities of the piano sounds, for that matter.)

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Actually it is now that I realize SP6 is similarly priced, lightweight and supports VA-synthesis

Yes, SP6 would be a significant competitor here. But at current U.S. prices, the Roland costs about 20% less. And it has speakers, and probably better action. (The SP6 has other advantages of its own, of course.)

The closest direct competitor might be the Casio PX-560. Same price (U.S.) for a lightweight board with speakers and a wide variety of sounds. Each has some significant features the other does not. Roland has much better MIDI controller functionality, and when it comes to splits/layers, you can put independent insert effects on three parts (vs. only one part being able to have its own effects on the Casio), and of course the VA synth function you mention (PX-560 lacks even a monophonic synth mode). Casio has advantages of its own, though, including more split/layer parts (4, which can even be extended to 24 with hexlayers, whereas Roland is 3), full on-board sound editing (it looks like the only deep editing on the Roland might be to own another zen-core board that has editing), and built-in sequencer.

Hmm, well, that makes it a tough choice then. Seems like the RD-88 might not be so easy to be reconfigured with new patches (no external editor?) and depending on the quality of the internal patches one may end up disliking them and unable to upload new ones easily. SP6 has caught my eye for quite some time and to some degree I'm sorry I didn't research it a lot before spending on a SL73 and the MODX. To me it seems now that just the SP6 would have been better and cheaper for my use-case than these two boards. However the SP6 is also not easily programmable and would require an external editor on the computer which I'm not sure is something I'm keen of. On the other hand I don't create my own patches, I only need to be able to easily split and layer existing patches which I guess is possible on the SP6. On the other hand, I'm not sure I like the Rhodes patches in the SP6 and there's no memory for expansion to add external libraries. I don't like the ones on the MODX either but Yamaha released Chick Corea's Rhodes and I uploaded it to the MODX which solved the issue, something apparently not possible with the SP6. Am I a grumpy old man already? laugh Or there's no perfect board...


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Am I a grumpy old man already? laugh Or there's no perfect board...

Both are probably true ...


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
On the other hand, I'm not sure I like the Rhodes patches in the SP6 and there's no memory for expansion to add external libraries.

As I understand it, the SP6 can load programs from some other Kurz models. They use the same samples, but they can sound quite different, and would provide a range of additional EPs to an SP6 owner. I don't know all the details, though. Master Kurz programmer Dave Weiser has also programmed additional sounds (including EPs) for the SP6, see https://www.weisersound.com/kurzweil-sp6

Kurz recently added the SP4 to the line, which does all the SP6 does and a whole lot more, including that ability to load up to 2 GB of new sample data. Other differences from the SP6: a lot more front panel control and rear panel connectivity, aftertouch, FM synthesizer, better display, on-board editing, more polyphony, sequencer, more built-in programs, more space for user programs, 16-zone MIDI control instead of 4.

Originally Posted by CyberGene
I don't like the ones on the MODX either but Yamaha released Chick Corea's Rhodes and I uploaded it to the MODX which solved the issue,
Also for the MODX, check this out... https://www.purgatorycreek.com/index.php/montage-modx/ - I think those might be the best EPs for the MODX.

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^ anotherscott, thanks, that's useful. I see you have great knowledge about these keyboards. I have a more specific question related to my exact style of usage and music and wondering which keyboard will give me that in the best way.

- I need a great Rhodes sound where I can easily add/remove phaser and/or chorus on the spot. I also need to be able to easily add a delay with easily changeable free delay rate (not linked to tempo)
- I need to also have a pad sound layered with the Rhodes and be able to easily mix between them both going between solo/mute <-> mute/solo
- I need to be able to change the pad type easily
- I need to have various lead sounds that I can change during the performance including changing cut-off and resonance
- Preferably all in one keyboard in which case the lead would be a split in the upper part of the keyboard next to the Rhodes/pad and (would be great but I know is too much:) optionally being able to be muted and so the Rhodes would take the entire keyboard

As I have explained, the MODX splits and layers are awfully hard to program, they require programming at home, especially since I play the Rhodes/pad from the SL73 into a multiple zone setup on the MODX (one single pad is actually multi-part and the part MIDI channels are fixed) and even programmed at home there's no easy way to easily change the pad sound: I can put other pads in the same performance on other channels but that would require changing setup on the SL73 which I hate to do. Another way would be to create multiple performance with the same Rhodes and different pads and switch between performances. However when you add that I also need to change different leads on top and that multiplies into so many combinations and need for so many separate performances it looks like I need to be a robot and to spend days programming at home...

So, I was wondering whether a keyboard like the SP6 (and waiting for the RD-88 user manual) could make such a setup and task easier? CP4 is kind of too expensive though...

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/17/20 02:02 PM.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
- I need a great Rhodes sound where I can easily add/remove phaser and/or chorus on the spot. I also need to be able to easily add a delay with easily changeable free delay rate (not linked to tempo)
- I need to also have a pad sound layered with the Rhodes and be able to easily mix between them both going between solo/mute <-> mute/solo
- I need to be able to change the pad type easily
- I need to have various lead sounds that I can change during the performance including changing cut-off and resonance
- Preferably all in one keyboard in which case the lead would be a split in the upper part of the keyboard next to the Rhodes/pad and (would be great but I know is too much:) optionally being able to be muted and so the Rhodes would take the entire keyboard

Real-time effects controls, real-time split/layer, filter cutoff and resonance controls, that's a tough combination. All in one board, what comes to mind as best is the pricey Nord Stage 3! But looking for a low-cost option, I'd consider a Roland Juno DS, which I think can be set up to do everything you want (though it's always more effort to set up a board that has multi-purpose knobs as opposed to dedicated knobs)... the problem there being that I don't think Roland's Rhodes sound are all that great (even if you load in the EP expansion download). But that's subjective, so maybe you shouldn't rule it out. It is a very strong board for easy, quick manipulation of split/layer combinations, and you could probably define the knobs for all the effects/filter parameters you need.

The PC4 could probably do what you want... it does have the ability to load custom samples (well, technically, so does the Roland, but only a much smaller amount)... again it has controls you would assign rather than dedicated controls to do what you want, but I suspect you could indeed do it, andI think it has decent EPs. SP6 could do a lot of the same (though not the custom samples), but real-time control would be hindered by having far fewer simultaneously available knobs and buttons to manipulate during performance, which I think is something of an issue with the MODX as well. The split/layer operations are simpler/quicker on the PC4 than on the MODX, too.

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^ Thanks, really appreciate it!


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So, that $1200 RD-88 gets 3000+ Zen Core sounds. Color me interested.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
^ anotherscott, thanks, that's useful. I see you have great knowledge about these keyboards. I have a more specific question related to my exact style of usage and music and wondering which keyboard will give me that in the best way.

- I need a great Rhodes sound where I can easily add/remove phaser and/or chorus on the spot. I also need to be able to easily add a delay with easily changeable free delay rate (not linked to tempo)
- I need to also have a pad sound layered with the Rhodes and be able to easily mix between them both going between solo/mute <-> mute/solo
- I need to be able to change the pad type easily
- I need to have various lead sounds that I can change during the performance including changing cut-off and resonance
- Preferably all in one keyboard in which case the lead would be a split in the upper part of the keyboard next to the Rhodes/pad and (would be great but I know is too much:) optionally being able to be muted and so the Rhodes would take the entire keyboard

As I have explained, the MODX splits and layers are awfully hard to program, they require programming at home, especially since I play the Rhodes/pad from the SL73 into a multiple zone setup on the MODX (one single pad is actually multi-part and the part MIDI channels are fixed) and even programmed at home there's no easy way to easily change the pad sound: I can put other pads in the same performance on other channels but that would require changing setup on the SL73 which I hate to do. Another way would be to create multiple performance with the same Rhodes and different pads and switch between performances. However when you add that I also need to change different leads on top and that multiplies into so many combinations and need for so many separate performances it looks like I need to be a robot and to spend days programming at home...

So, I was wondering whether a keyboard like the SP6 (and waiting for the RD-88 user manual) could make such a setup and task easier? CP4 is kind of too expensive though...


1- MP series Rhodes sounds better than Yamaha. You can add/remove the phaser chorus on the spot. You can add remove effects, also you can instantly access any parameter just by holding any of the effects buttons. All of these can be done without any cutting in your voice, which Yamaha recently added to CP88!
2- You have 4 sliders right under your fingers.
3- You can do this in MP series easily
4- The lead sounds in MP series have better punch and stereo image to them compared to any Yamaha stage keyboard. To set the ranges you only need to press one button and you have access to all 4 zones ranges individually, they all have their own specific button!
5- MP7SE is a great MIDI controller, quite powerful and you can do splits instantly on it.

Read the MP7SE's user manual. That's why I bought it. It does so much that leaves Yamaha behind.

The action beats any Roland, Yamaha or Korg in its price range and its piano sound is beautiful.

Overall, MP7SE is a badass master MIDI controller. I would highly suggest to try it out if you can find a used MP7SE or even MP7 it will beat CP4 in terms of functionality.

I don't think you can import samples into CP4. It's a static keyboard. Maybe anotherscott knows something, but as far as I know, it is not designed to load samples.


Last edited by Abdol; 01/19/20 03:10 AM.

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I’ve had a MP6 and the only good sound in it was the piano, the Rhodes and the pipe organs. Everything else: leads, pads, strings and other sounds I didn’t like. The interface was dated too and needed a lot of browsing/scrolling through. I don’t think MP7II improves much upon it in terms of sounds. It doesn’t even have any synthesis engine, just PCM samples. And no knobs, just 4 faders. I don’t see how I will easily balance between two sounds in a split and also control effect depths to many parts, etc with only 4 faders. And it was also quite heavy.

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/19/20 03:30 AM.

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P.S. Actually MP7 SE has 4 programmable knobs. Not bad. But still the non-piano sounds were not the strength of MP6 and I’m not sure if MP7 SE is any better. No extensibility for adding samples...

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/19/20 03:44 AM.

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Originally Posted by rintincop
Which action is it?


PHA-4 Standard Keyboard, according to the specs.


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Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
Okay so what is the difference between PHA-4 Concert Keyboard: with Escapement and Ebony/Ivory Feel & PHA-4 Standard Keyboard with Escapement and Ivory Feel?


I guess this wasn't covered yet.

Well, the table isn't without mistakes.

PHA4 Standard vs. others vary (at least) in the key length. So, in the table PHA4 Standard should be in the "Slightly long" category.

And "Ivory Feel S" should be in the "Long" category. It's a variant of the older PHA3 family and was last used in the already discontinued FP80. The "short" version of PHA3 was the Ivory Feel G.

(Or something like that. Maybe they are only related by their lifetimes.)

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Kurz recently added the SP4 to the line, which does all the SP6 does and a whole lot more

That was supposed to say PC4.

Originally Posted by Abdol
1- MP series Rhodes sounds better than Yamaha.

I agree, though you can add better to the MODX (e.g. the purgatory creek EPs I linked to), whereas you can't add new sounds to the Kawai. But the Kawai is a great board, and yes, the action is better than MODX as well. It also has a better clonewheel organ implementation, and a pretty nice interface all around. MODX has generally better non-piano sounds and more total flexibility, and of course, is a lot lighter to carry around. As for MIDI zones, MP7 series supports 4, MODX supports 8, PC4 supports 16.

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Kurz recently added the SP4 to the line, which does all the SP6 does and a whole lot more

That was supposed to say PC4.

Originally Posted by Abdol
1- MP series Rhodes sounds better than Yamaha.

I agree, though you can add better to the MODX (e.g. the purgatory creek EPs I linked to), whereas you can't add new sounds to the Kawai. But the Kawai is a great board, and yes, the action is better than MODX as well. It also has a better clonewheel organ implementation, and a pretty nice interface all around. MODX has generally better non-piano sounds and more total flexibility, and of course, is a lot lighter to carry around. As for MIDI zones, MP7 series supports 4, MODX supports 8, PC4 supports 16.



I'm not comparing MODX with MP7SE. I'm comparing MP7SE with CP-4 and CP-88.

MODX only has the edge for FM based sounds. Yamaha never had good pads and synth sounds in its recent synths. Good fat synths and pads can be found in other brands like Roland or Korg.

I would personally buy a keyboard that has satisfying onboard sounds in it already. It is very unlikely that I can find better samples. I never purchased any library for my MOTIF as I found the internal samples good or better.


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MP7SE is a nice stage piano with an emphasis on “piano”. It excels in piano duties due to a fantastic action and excellent acoustic and Rhodes piano sounds. I remember I loved the Rhodes in my MP6. However in terms of pads and leads it has around 10 of each. And it has one insert effect per part with 4 total parts. I know I’ve bashed the MODX and to a certain extent I *hate* it but it’s much more of a synth/workstation. And despite being kind of awkward and difficult to program it is light years ahead compared to MP7SE in terms of flexibility, sounds, effects and features for the music I currently play where I’m not sure I even need weighted action and acoustic piano sounds. Even Rhodes sounds are used more as a dreamy kind of sound with a lot of effects rather than any jazz/pianistic instrument.

I think the RD-88 might come as a good middle ground although three parts are way too low but on the other hand it has so many sounds it might not even need many parts (on the MODX many patches are multi part in order to sound thick but they could have been internally represented/programmed as single-part instruments if the architecture allowed it and that would have solved what I complain most about: splits/layers between multi-part instruments).

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/19/20 06:51 PM.

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There was also the idea of going with two boards, which hasn't really been discussed. Since hammer action is not necessarily essential, the Vox Continental could be a good foundation. Or maybe even the less expensive Numa Compact 2X, which also has a MIDI controller function that would make it easy to add, for example, a sound from an iPad to your splits/layers. Then maybe any of a number of lead synths above it. Food for thought...

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And while we’re eating/thinking, I’m also wondering whether the RD-88 will have particle board underneath, like some of its predecessors (but not the RD-800, or the FA 08 I believe).

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
[...]As to the keyboard action, one should not forget it's an entry-level and lightweight stage piano. Yamaha do the same, their CP73 also has the cheap GHS keyboard. And honestly, when testing GHS pianos against FP-30 in a store, purely from touch point of view to me the FP30 is superior than GHS-equipped pianos.


I have the same opinion about you regarding the difference, however the CP73 (which uses BHS) is targeted more to the stage piano segment while FP30 is a "portable" digital piano. A closer comparison to the FP30 would be the CP88 which uses NW-GH, which I like the feel of under my fingers. But alas I had just purchased my FP-30 when these CPs came out.

Originally Posted by torhu
[...]The CP73 has the new BHS keyboard, Balanced Hammer Standard. What exactly that is, I'm not sure.


BHS has the same resistance across the board, i.e. not very piano-like. That said, being piano-like is not the CP73's targeted segment anyway.


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Back to the RD-88. I like its price, ability to set up 3 layers, and on-board speakers. I'm still undecided about the sample sounds based on the Youtube videos. But then again we still have until March when it hit stores in North America smile


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Originally Posted by rio197
Back to the RD-88. I like its price, ability to set up 3 layers, and on-board speakers. I'm still undecided about the sample sounds based on the Youtube videos. But then again we still have until March when it hit stores in North America smile


Has there ever been a properly priced Roland gear in Roland's entire history? Especially these days that all of these companies are comparing themselves with Apple and follow its lead!


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Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by rio197
Back to the RD-88. I like its price, ability to set up 3 layers, and on-board speakers. I'm still undecided about the sample sounds based on the Youtube videos. But then again we still have until March when it hit stores in North America smile


Has there ever been a properly priced Roland gear in Roland's entire history?

Why do you think this is over-priced? What about the Boutique modules?

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Originally Posted by anotherscott

Why do you think this is over-priced? What about the Boutique modules?


Because Roland is mischievous.


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Originally Posted by rio197
Back to the RD-88. I like its price, ability to set up 3 layers, and on-board speakers. I'm still undecided about the sample sounds based on the Youtube videos. But then again we still have until March when it hit stores in North America smile


That’s the thing - even the YouTube videos will differ.

Best to wait and try it exactly in the way you intend to use it (ie try line-out + monitors in store, if that’s how you’ll use it).

Nothing can be assumed via the on board speakers, or even the headphones.


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The overall design of Roland RD-88 make me think of Casio PX-5S, which is a very nice one.

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Bonners always deliver great demos... even in the chaos of NAMM.



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Originally Posted by David Zhang
The overall design of Roland RD-88 make me think of Casio PX-5S, which is a very nice one.

Casio (like most Yamaha) forces you to make a choice... you can get a model with good MIDI functionality or you can get a model with speakers, but not both. It's nice to see the RD88 as an exception to this pattern. I think that this Roland is the most capable slab with speakers that's under 30 lbs. I'll be curious to see how loud the speakers are. The 7 watt speakers on the FP4 were quite loud, much more so than the 8 watt speakers on the Casio, so you definitely can't just go by the numbers here.

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Originally Posted by Marko in Boston

Bonners always deliver great demos... even in the chaos of NAMM.


If you have never heard the sound of disappointment, you can buy RD0-88 by Roland and listen to how disappointment sounds...

The piano sounds awful. $600 Casio PX series has a better piano sound.

What a waste of everything.

Last edited by Abdol; 01/22/20 02:29 AM.

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You heard a Roland RD-88?

Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by Marko in Boston

Bonners always deliver great demos... even in the chaos of NAMM.


If you have never heard the sound of disappointment, you can buy RD0-88 by Roland and listen to how disappointment sounds...

The piano sounds awful. $600 Casio PX series has a better piano sound.

What a waste of everything.

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Actually, the RD-88 isn't really a pianist's board, but it might just be the thing for me. Will have to wait until I can try one, but I'm looking for a portable DP.
I was thinking along the lines of the Casio PX-S1000 or the Kawai ES110 but for my use case, I'll have to make too many compromises (especially with the ES110).

So, the RD-88 seems to have everything I'm looking for : audio in, it even has audio and midi over USB, support for Roland's RPU3 triple pedal unit, built-in speakers and a quality keybed with triple sensor and escapement.
Now, I have played the PHA50 on the Roland RD2000, and that's a very good keybed. Haven't played the PHA4 yet, but it's bound to be at least as good as the one in the PX-S1000 or ES110.
Don't know about the speakers, will have to see, but it's only for use in a home environment, so they should be sufficient.
No music rest, though, but that could be fixed with a K&M Omega stand, and a second tier with a laptop holder to rest my iPad on. Plus, it's affordable and I like the supernatural piano sounds.
I'll probably never use 90% of all the sounds in there, but if it's solid for piano, then that's all I need...


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Originally Posted by AB99
You heard a Roland RD-88?

Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by Marko in Boston

Bonners always deliver great demos... even in the chaos of NAMM.


If you have never heard the sound of disappointment, you can buy RD0-88 by Roland and listen to how disappointment sounds...

The piano sounds awful. $600 Casio PX series has a better piano sound.

What a waste of everything.



Yes. The Youtube video is 100% legit. That's how RD-88 exactly sounds.

Roland is high on something no one knows. Here is the deal, what do you usually pack in a cheapo box? I have never seen anyone storing gold in pet plastic bags. The same goes to keyboards.

At this price point, any keyboard sounds better than Roland.

Last edited by Abdol; 01/22/20 12:34 PM.

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Originally Posted by Abdol
The piano sounds awful. $600 Casio PX series has a better piano sound.

It's subjective. In low cost slabs-with-speakers, I'd probably take the Roland piano sound over a Casio or Korg, but probably take a Yamaha or Kawai over the Roland. The RD-88 piano sound is probably the same as the much cheaper FP-10/FP-30... when you move up to the RD-88, you're paying for more features rather than better piano sound. People buy for reasons besides piano sound. The RD-88 gives you things like a ton more sounds, a much better front panel interface, and great MIDI controller functionality (pitch and mod wheels, definable knobs, multiple pedals, 5-pin MIDI out, Mainstage integration). If you don't need stuff like this, stick with the lower cost models. If you DO need these things, this looks like a pretty good choice. Competitors might be Korg Kross and Casio PX5S, but they have no speakers and no specific Mainstage support; or maybe a controller like an Arturia Keylab, but those have no built in sounds at all.

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I find the Roland FP-30 to be quite good. But I would want more features that the RD-88 has. Now if the RD-88 can be had for about $799 - then it is a a lot of instrument for the money - especially with all the new extra sounds.

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Not bashing anyone's opinion. However, an "emphatic opinion" should only be made if the piano has been experienced hands-on by the opinionist. Even at that, it is still considered subjective, but at least has credibility. YouTube opinions can not be emphatic, only subjective without much credibility.

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Originally Posted by Marko in Boston
Not bashing anyone's opinion. However, an "emphatic opinion" should only be made if the piano has been experienced hands-on by the opinionist. Even at that, it is still considered subjective, but at least has credibility. YouTube opinions can not be emphatic, only subjective without much credibility.


I'm quite confident about my opinion and wouldn't get offended if someone bashes me. I hate being politically correct when I talk about instruments and my passions. I have listened to SuperNatural stuff from Roland before (many times). As soon as I listen to a youtube video I can even say if the equipment they have used to record the audio was good or bad by comparing it with what I have in my memory. Specifically, Yamaha as I owned Yamaha gears for many years. I listened to hours of SN pianos as RD-2000 was one of the keyboards I was considering to buy.

MSRP: $1,600
and sweetwater sells it for 1,200

LOL to Roland. Overpriced, over-exaggerated and yet sounds like toy piano which has some piano modeling.

Casio sounds much nicer in this price range and I guess it even offers a better action!

Last edited by Abdol; 01/22/20 03:44 PM.

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Originally Posted by Abdol
LOL to Roland. Overpriced, over-exaggerated and yet sounds like toy piano which has some piano modeling.


Well, I tried.

I'm still looking forward to giving the RD88 an honest hands-on demo (.....Actually , I hope it has a "toy piano" voice so i can add Summer Breeze - Seals & Crofts to my playlist wink )

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Has Roland decided to go to more modeling and less sample-based cause they see this technology has more upside or do you think modeling saves them money thus increasing their bottom line?

I remember how excited I was to have an FP4 cause each note of acoustic piano was sampled. I really enjoyed that piano. Then each newer version, they began to be less real sounding on videos and audios I listened to Is the newer tech more appreciated by the player, as some rave at Pianoteq, Physis and V-Piano cause the sound of each note interacts with each other?


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Originally Posted by Abdol
LOL to Roland. Overpriced, over-exaggerated and yet sounds like toy piano which has some piano modeling.

Casio sounds much nicer in this price range and I guess it even offers a better action!


I obviously haven't tried the RD-88 yet, however my initial impressions are that it looks like a great product, and one that will tick a lot of boxes for a lot of people.

Cheers,
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I agree with you James. I'm off to church choir practice in a few minutes and this board would be perfect for me smile


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I agree as well. Anxious to put my hands on one as only that will allow for a serious opinion.
The same action is on the FP10, FP30 and FP60, yet they all play and feel somewhat differently.
And thanks for trying, Marko in Boston wink

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After hating the same action on the FP60 (PHA4 Standard), I wouldn't go near this board. As I've said before - it felt absolutely fine, but I had a problem repeating notes in a very legato fashion - i.e - when lifting up and re-playing the same key, without a gap in between. So not necessarily a fast repeat - just a very legato repeat. The repeats would often sound softer than I had intended. Never had that problem on any other keyboard, and I certainly don't have it on my current board - the Yamaha P-515 - it hasn't skipped a beat.

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The best thing is to try the actual unit! Who knows what may be a little different. It if it is really lightweight, has easy access to great sounds, and the action is at least decent - it can have its place. I don't think anyone has realistic expectations that it will be lightweight and have the action of a $200,000 Steinway. Let's get real As I said - I like the FP30 but strongly dislike the headphone as the only output and the pain of finding sounds in a live environment. Just those two improvements is great. I would also like to see a case - so that it is no more than 50 lbs airline weight.

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Originally Posted by Fleer
I agree as well. Anxious to put my hands on one as only that will allow for a serious opinion.
The same action is on the FP10, FP30 and FP60, yet they all play and feel somewhat differently.
And thanks for trying, Marko in Boston wink


Exactly! Always try the exact model that you wish to purchase for that reason - it may well feel/play differently (despite being the same on paper).

Originally Posted by AB99
The best thing is to try the actual unit! Who knows what may be a little different. It if it is really lightweight, has easy access to great sounds, and the action is at least decent - it can have its place. I don't think anyone has realistic expectations that it will be lightweight and have the action of a $200,000 Steinway. Let's get real As I said - I like the FP30 but strongly dislike the headphone as the only output and the pain of finding sounds in a live environment. Just those two improvements is great. I would also like to see a case - so that it is no more than 50 lbs airline weight.


Well, I certainly can't call myself a musician or pianist yet...

...but when the time came to sell my FP-30, it was an absolute doddle to get off the stand and place into a travel bag to take it it it's final destination. The RD-88 is even lighter than that (half a kilo or so), so shouldn't pose such a challenge.

Then the FP-90 arrived... gosh! I can see why a travelling musician might not want to cart that around.

Is there a lightweight piano on offer from Roland that has the fully-modelled sound engine (for those who prefer it)? The RD2000 is almost 22kg!

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Originally Posted by OscarRamsey
...
Then the FP-90 arrived... gosh! I can see why a travelling musician might not want to cart that around.

Is there a lightweight piano on offer from Roland that has the fully-modelled sound engine (for those who prefer it)? The RD2000 is almost 22kg!


I'm afraid not. The RD800 has the "ordinary" SN and is almost 22kg, without speakers, PHA4 Concert keys. I'd guess the "engine" doesn't need to weigh that much, but better key action and case do.

I wouldn't care for modelled or not - it how it sounds to you that matters. Besides, Roland modelled can be SNM or PA...

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Originally Posted by sullivang
After hating the same action on the FP60 (PHA4 Standard), I wouldn't go near this board. As I've said before - it felt absolutely fine, but I had a problem repeating notes in a very legato fashion - i.e - when lifting up and re-playing the same key, without a gap in between. So not necessarily a fast repeat - just a very legato repeat.

That exactly describes what happens if a board doesn't have a triple sensor. Do we know whether the FP60 is supposed to have that feature? It doesn't appear to be mentioned on their web site.

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PHA-IV Standard (same as on the FP30, FP10, RD88, A88Mk2) is triple sensor.


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Yep it's triple sensor, but I've not had this problem on prior boards - including conventional two-sensor boards. It's a strange one - maybe I'm doing something atypical. Shrugs.

Greg

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Originally Posted by _sem_
Originally Posted by OscarRamsey
...
Then the FP-90 arrived... gosh! I can see why a travelling musician might not want to cart that around.

Is there a lightweight piano on offer from Roland that has the fully-modelled sound engine (for those who prefer it)? The RD2000 is almost 22kg!


I'm afraid not. The RD800 has the "ordinary" SN and is almost 22kg, without speakers, PHA4 Concert keys. I'd guess the "engine" doesn't need to weigh that much, but better key action and case do.

I wouldn't care for modelled or not - it how it sounds to you that matters. Besides, Roland modelled can be SNM or PA...


I guess they've missed a trick then, or is something else on the cards later?

Personally, I prefer PA to SNM sound. I did like my FP30 too, but it's been a while since I've owned it - perhaps my opinion would be different now, having had SNM and PA.

Originally Posted by sullivang
After hating the same action on the FP60 (PHA4 Standard), I wouldn't go near this board. As I've said before - it felt absolutely fine, but I had a problem repeating notes in a very legato fashion - i.e - when lifting up and re-playing the same key, without a gap in between. So not necessarily a fast repeat - just a very legato repeat. The repeats would often sound softer than I had intended. Never had that problem on any other keyboard, and I certainly don't have it on my current board - the Yamaha P-515 - it hasn't skipped a beat.

Greg.


Personally, I found the PHA4 action (FP-30) a bit hard on my fingers after a year. Being an absolute beginner at the time, I can't comment on repeating notes.

It was a lot easier for me to control dynamics (PP to FF) on the PHA-50 FP-90 which replaced the FP-30. Again, as a beginner I appreciated that. I'm not sure how I'd feel about it now - I guess I'd have to have another go at PHA4 to tell you whether I feel the same way.

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Has anyone heard when the owners manual might be available?


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Originally Posted by OscarRamsey
Personally, I found the PHA4 action (FP-30) a bit hard on my fingers after a year. Being an absolute beginner at the time, I can't comment on repeating notes.

I've been practicing on the PHA4 / FP30 for almost 4 years now. It is best played with a proper weighted-arm technique, it begs to be played like this and is very comfortable to play like this in the long term. But repeating notes is one of the weaknesses of the PHA4/FP30. Compared to the quick and clean repeating action of a typical acoustic, repeating notes on the PHA4 are very sluggish (even when compared to an upright action).

On the other hand, I'm happy with the PHA4 action and would buy another one. For short, compact actions, it's one of the best out there for the "portable slabs".


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Apart from the action as such, I was thinking as follows when deciding on the sound and playability of a DP.
Sampled DPs like Yamaha’s P515 tend to have a lack of immediacy when playing. And then there’s that vast bunch of samples libraries to run on your computer.
Modeled DPs like Roland’s V-Piano in their FP-90 or RD-2000 are second to Pianoteq in my book.
Finally there’s the SuperNatural approach of the RD-88, seemingly combining the strengths of samples and modeling. So I got the RD-88. In three weeks.

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Please report back when you get your RD-88. Congratulations!

Originally Posted by Fleer
Apart from the action as such, I was thinking as follows when deciding on the sound and playability of a DP.
Sampled DPs like Yamaha’s P515 tend to have a lack of immediacy when playing. And then there’s that vast bunch of samples libraries to run on your computer.
Modeled DPs like Roland’s V-Piano in their FP-90 or RD-2000 are second to Pianoteq in my book.
Finally there’s the SuperNatural approach of the RD-88, seemingly combining the strengths of samples and modeling. So I got the RD-88. In three weeks.

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I think I'm hearing in the demos that they might have smoothed out the velocity response of the SN piano sound. It doesn't sound quite so twangy at medium velocities, as it always has on certain notes in the midrange in my opinion.

I think it's a very promising new 'board. Will be very interesting to see just how good (or bad) the built-in speakers are.

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I might have to withdraw my compliment! Having listened to some more demos (such as the Andertons video) the metallic clanking and twanging is alive and well!

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I hear it faring much better on the DOmi video then the Andertons. I played it but again difficult, if not impossible, to make any conclusions at NAMM. It didn't feel sluggish or cheesey. That's about all I got at this juncture till I play it in the store like everyone else..

Just thinking for a weekend get away, vacation, practice keyboard- it sure would be a lot easier schlep then a P-515. Would have to play it next to a P-125 though.

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1. I have a feeling the RD-88 wasn't reset when some of the Youtube videos were recorded at NAMM 2020. The quality of the piano sound varies so much between the videos. Gonna have to reserve judgement until I get my hands on it. Can't imagine it would be much different from the FP10/FP30 sounds.

2. The MainStage controls / connection looks pretty smooth. I like the monitor stand at the NAMM display.

3. One thing that's worth mentioning, it has 2 sets of built-in speakers - so it might sound better in-person than the FP10/FP30. The RD-88 has tweeters on top and the regular speakers on the bottom.


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Groove On #2940884 01/31/20 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Groove On
1. I have a feeling the RD-88 wasn't reset when some of the Youtube videos were recorded at NAMM 2020. The quality of the piano sound varies so much between the videos. Gonna have to reserve judgement until I get my hands on it. Can't imagine it would be much different from the FP10/FP30 sounds.

2. The MainStage controls / connection looks pretty smooth. I like the monitor stand at the NAMM display.

3. One thing that's worth mentioning, it has 2 sets of built-in speakers - so it might sound better in-person than the FP10/FP30. The RD-88 has tweeters on top and the regular speakers on the bottom.


That's the best way to do it - making assumptions about how it sounds just won't be fair.

FP10 has 96 note polyphony, whilst the FP30 has 128 - so straight away, there's something different internally. Once you take pedalling into account, that sets them apart even further (as far as software/electronics are concerned)?

Looking at the FP-30 specs, there's very little adjustability for the on board piano sound, however it seems they've added a fair amount of Piano Designer adjustability for the RD-88:

https://www.roland.com/uk/products/rd-800/specifications/

I've never been one to mess with Piano Designer much, however someone else on here might be able to chip in as far as how much real adjustability there is in it - so you might be able to tweak the piano sounds to your satisfaction.


Last edited by OscarRamsey; 01/31/20 07:19 AM.

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That’s the RD-800.

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Originally Posted by Fleer
That’s the RD-800.


Argh!! That's bloody annoying - I found the link via a google search. Should have checked properly.

Oh well.. perhaps there isn't as much adjustability in it then. smirk


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Originally Posted by EVC2017
... The specs say it has... two 12cm "full-range" speakers, probably pointed downwards.
Good grief!... 12cm "full-range" speakers (sic)... It's well that you put it in quotes! One hopes that any DP would have a shot at reproducing at least the second harmonic of "low A" (54 Hz.) No speaker under 8 inches diameter can get down to 50 Hz and even then it has to be designed into a proper cabinet. I guess I'm missing the point... these 12 cm speakers are likely there just to let you know the DP is switched on! :-) You need an external sound system and large speakers.
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Kawai ES8 has two 12x5cm (ish) speakers and they produce a decent sound, considering. Good enough for a small room. I believe Yamaha P-515 is similar in this regard. If these RD-88 speakers are anything similar, they are adequate for the intended purpose, when you do not want to connect a monitor or PA and just want a plug and play solution. They are better than the alternative (no speaker at all).

Last edited by EVC2017; 02/03/20 08:32 PM.

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Still, RD-88 has four speakers, two firing upwards and two underneath.

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Originally Posted by Fleer
Still, RD-88 has four speakers, two firing upwards and two underneath.


I'm still waiting for the manufacturers to realize the holy grail of speaker placement and place them facing into the chassis, pointing at each other.


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by Fleer
Still, RD-88 has four speakers, two firing upwards and two underneath.


I'm still waiting for the manufacturers to realize the holy grail of speaker placement and place them facing into the chassis, pointing at each other.


I think those K-Array speakers on the SV2S look promising. Curious to find out how they sound...


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EssBrace #2942850 02/05/20 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
I might have to withdraw my compliment! Having listened to some more demos (such as the Andertons video) the metallic clanking and twanging is alive and well!

Gee, it sounds fine to me... Funny how subjective these things are, innit?

I have an RD-88 on hold when they arrive here in Canada in a few weeks, and will post my thoughts as soon as I can put finger to key.

Meanwhile, I don't know if anyone has pointed to this, but in case it helps:

RD-88 vs RD-2000 Piano Sound Comparison




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Originally Posted by AndyFielding
I have an RD-88 on hold when they arrive here in Canada in a few weeks, and will post my thoughts as soon as I can put finger to key.


Yes, do please let us know.

If you do have any experience of the slightly older, sample based, Supernatural piano sounds I would be interested to know if you agree with me about something:

I found all of the SN piano sounds to suffer from a very fast transition with rising key press velocities into a 'twanging', piercingly thin metallic timbre on certain notes scattered around the upper midrange of keyboard. Almost as if another, tonally much sharper, sample layer had been triggered. If it was ALL notes then you could dial it down using a harder touch curve, but as it was only certain notes there was no remedy.

They are saying the RD-88 has 'new' SN piano tones, although we know they are the sample based sounds. Maybe they have reworked the velocity mapping on the RD-88, who knows. But on the Andertons video the characteristics I am talking about are very apparent to my ears.

Of course, many people never had any issues with these SN sounds. Many people would disagree with my assessment. I just wonder if you have heard what I am talking about in the past, or not?

I think the RD-88 looks like a very useful thing...if they've fixed the issue that bothered me I'd think they'd made something almost perfect, given the price and other specs of the thing.

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Originally Posted by AndyFielding

Don’t know if I’m alone in this, but the RD-88 sounds more like a real-life “wooden” piano in this vid than the RD-2000.

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I look forward to checking it out in person (the Rd88). I like the action on the RD-2000 - I use it as a controller in a studio setting.

Is the action on the RD88 any better than the FP30? (Probably answered somewhere in this forum - so I apologize for the repetition.) I hope so - though the FP30 is tolerable to me for gigs.

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Yep, same action as FP10, FP30 and FP60.

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Well - I suppose if it is the same action as the FP30 - BUT has separate outs (not just headphones) and easier access to other sounds on the fly - for live work - it may be worth it - especially with some sort of discount.

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Exactly my thinking smile
Plus controller compatibility with Mainstage and 3000 Zen-Core sounds.
Also, quite remarkable how they succeeded in making it both less broad and less deep while only adding a little bit of height to house the woofers underneath. For me, that even brings it to an ideal playing position.

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As to the comparison with the RD2000 - are they comparing the same piano settings, etc? Is there a better piano in the RD2000 than what is presented?

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Not much information on this (or any, for that matter).
I was wondering the same but thinking that I’m not so much interested in the V-Piano, which is entirely modeled, as Pianoteq takes care of that approach.
SuperNatural pianos are a mixture of modeling and samples, which is what I’d prefer in a DP slab.

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Originally Posted by AB99
As to the comparison with the RD2000 - are they comparing the same piano settings, etc? Is there a better piano in the RD2000 than what is presented?

I don't see why they'd avoid using the 2000's best pianos if their goal was to compare the two boards so specifically.


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I don't either. But it does not mean that they did not do so. There is no information to indicate one way or the other.

Originally Posted by AndyFielding
Originally Posted by AB99
As to the comparison with the RD2000 - are they comparing the same piano settings, etc? Is there a better piano in the RD2000 than what is presented?

I don't see why they'd avoid using the 2000's best pianos if their goal was to compare the two boards so specifically.

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When Kurzweil designed the SP6, they used a slimmed down set of elements for each piano part, meaning there is less detail in the SP6 pianos than in their Forte, for example. It could be that Roland did the same thing for the RD88.


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The piano sound they are using on the RD 2000 is t he stage grand ,when you first turn on the piano it is the modelled sound . I have the 2000 , you can change the sound to make it sound better than what's on the video and it does sound nicer in my opinion than the RD 88 which is what I would expect . The Rd 88 sounds pretty nice also .

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Thank you! This is an excellent post. By the way, do you mod the stage grand, or do you start with a different preset before you modify?

quote=pianomike]The piano sound they are using on the RD 2000 is t he stage grand ,when you first turn on the piano it is the modelled sound . I have the 2000 , you can change the sound to make it sound better than what's on the video and it does sound nicer in my opinion than the RD 88 which is what I would expect . The Rd 88 sounds pretty nice also .[/quote]

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According to Sweetwater, the RD-88 speakers and amp are:
Built-in Speakers:
2 x 4.7" woofer, 2 x .78" tweeter
Amplifier:
2 x 6W

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What I like about the speakers- is they give it a little more of a piano vibe when playing live - it is nice to get some of the sound right from the instrument. It does not need to be overwhelming for this effect. If they used large speakers - then the unit would be heavier. So it is a matter of compromises. It looks like Roland made some nice compromises here to make it an affordable live instrument.

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5” woofers are quite large, actually.

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For live performance, where most likely there will be a PA with larger speakers, 5" woofers in the digital piano is excellent. I agree. How they sound - I obviously do not know. But for me, I only need it to give me the feel that I am playing a piano, while the audience really gets the sound from the PA. This is all good imho.

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He was using the internal speakers for that Sweetwater review. They sounded pretty good, as far as you can make out from a Youtube review (I would be using it in a home environment, living room. My guess is, they will be less punchy than the ones in the SV2S, but I'm almost certain they will be better than the speakers in the PX-S1000 or 3000...
I must say, the RD88 still is a compelling option as a back-up for my MP11SE (still haven't decided), even though I won't be using 75% of the sounds : triple sensor keybed, support for Roland's triple pedal unit.
Will try one as soon as they hit the shops...

Last edited by ChrisGoesPiano; 02/17/20 05:29 AM.

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Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano
He was using the internal speakers for that Sweetwater review. They sounded pretty good, as far as you can make out from a Youtube review...


He may have been using them for his own monitoring purposes but the onboard speakers were most definitely NOT what the viewer of the video is hearing...the audio is straight from the stereo line outs.

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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano
He was using the internal speakers for that Sweetwater review. They sounded pretty good, as far as you can make out from a Youtube review...


He may have been using them for his own monitoring purposes but the onboard speakers were most definitely NOT what the viewer of the video is hearing...the audio is straight from the stereo line outs.


Well, he was using mics, you could clearly hear the noise of the keys on the keybed and the clicking sound of the buttons...


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Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano
He was using the internal speakers for that Sweetwater review. They sounded pretty good, as far as you can make out from a Youtube review...


He may have been using them for his own monitoring purposes but the onboard speakers were most definitely NOT what the viewer of the video is hearing...the audio is straight from the stereo line outs.


Well, he was using mics, you could clearly hear the noise of the keys on the keybed and the clicking sound of the buttons...


Yes, the mic is for his voice. The audio is so unmistakably 'line out' audio, with such a clean, rich, full, pronounced stereo image, devoid of room noise and flat frequency response. You can see the audio out cables from the piano. If they'd mic'd the piano it would have sounded awful, I promise you. That's not to say the speakers are bad, but mic'ing speakers such as those gives an equally unmistakable sound (a tinny, peaky, BAD one!).

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Steve is right. Probably close to all, at least designed to be, Pro demos you see/hear are recorded line out.

That is a huge reason so many users are dissatisfied with the sound when they get their keyboard and run it through gigging type speakers/ keyboard amp or just ok studio type monitors- it never sounds as good as it does in the videos !

Nord in particular.

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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
.....Probably close to all, at least designed to be, Pro demos you see/hear are recorded line out.

That is a huge reason so many users are dissatisfied with the sound when they get their keyboard and run it through gigging type speakers/ keyboard amp or just ok studio type monitors- it never sounds as good as it does in the videos !

Nord in particular.


So true!

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I’m waiting for the manual to become available. One of the things I haven’t seen yet is whether the Piano Designer is part of the architecture. I’ve customized a few AP’s and EP’s on my RD800 to suit my ear, but that instrument is too heavy to take out of the home studio. It would be great if that ability carried into the lighter form factor, even if only available through an app.

There’s a lot to like about this instrument, particularly if the SN pianos can be tweaked.


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Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano


Gosh, that sounds very 'plinky-plonky' - almost toy-like with the first 'Concert Grand' preset. The electric piano he played first was just awful too. Not the impression I've had from some of the other demos I've heard so maybe there was something odd about the settings.

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I thought the same. Recorded from the speakers, perhaps?


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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano


Gosh, that sounds very 'plinky-plonky' - almost toy-like with the first 'Concert Grand' preset. The electric piano he played first was just awful too. Not the impression I've had from some of the other demos I've heard so maybe there was something odd about the settings.


Agreed. That was not the most impressive audio demo. Better Music usually puts out great videos, but this one missed the bar.


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Polish reselller Musikuj has some new vids out.

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New video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8YLSSXeqrE

At 1.38 he plays some chords and it is the sound of the onboard speakers (sounds awful). I think the rest of the review is line out (I haven't watched it all but it immediately transitions to line out after that point anyway).

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Sounds Great!


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Thanks!

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YAY! and Thank you!

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Any RD88 delivery news? (Ok - I am looking for a distraction from the pandemic).

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A few UK retailers are now showing as in stock, some retailers are still pre-order. I have just ordered one from Rimmers at £929 currently the cheapest in the UK.

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Mine should arrive in two to three weeks.
There’s a guy at GearSlutz who got his in a few days ago: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/ele.../1295212-roland-rd-88-stage-piano-3.html

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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Thanks. Hadn’t seen that one. Meanwhile, my delivery has been postponed with a month.

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Thanks for the videos. There is some good discussion going on here too:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/ele.../1295212-roland-rd-88-stage-piano-5.html

My delivery is now expected end of May.

That will give me some time to work out how best to use it live with a PC running Catabile.

I know a Mac and Main stage would maybe easier , but I have a couple of Laptops that I use already and it doesn't warrant the expense of a Mac. I can see the USB midi and Audio being useful, for having access to a say a good brass section and the playing of samples, mapped to keys on the RD88. Be interesting to see how others are using with external sound engines/ Laptops.

Having looked at the many videos, it looks like it should be a good option for live portability, but I do think they missed a trick for usability by not having a rotary selector.

I wonder if there will be a sound editor at some stage ..that would make it easier...

Has anybody found a case or bag that fits it snuggly rather than oversized ?

The height rules it out for my go to choices such as a Gator ATA 88 XL Slim

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If anyone in the US is interested in buying an RD-88, Sweetwater has them in stock today (5/5/2020)

[Linked Image]



Please note: I have nothing to do with Sweetwater or Roland, Just letting you know.

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Mine arrived yesterday.

Spent some time playing and exploring sounds. So far very impressed It will be very welcome addition as very easy to carry, nice feel to keybed, and organ sounds way better than my previous Roland. Plug in turn on and play ...great

I will know start to programme it with sound sets I need for songs , that will a good test of the user interface.

Rob

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Got mine on Friday. Still have to inbox. Meanwhile it seems a Zenology cloud sub isn’t needed as the RD-88 already holds 3000 of the 4000 Zen Core sounds in Zenology.

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Hi Fleer,
Be interested to hear how you get on with it. I did think mine had a display fault as the the backlight gives a slightly uneven, but symmetrical light across the display , triangles from the top and sides..but I can see the same effect in the the demo videos , so no return required.


I am still looking for a good carry case if anyone has found one thats a good fit , with protection and not too big that I can use ?

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So jealous, still waiting for mine. Ordered early March and was supposed to be delivered a month ago, but apparently the covid thing stoped everything... frown

Abdol #3006922 07/26/20 10:34 AM
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Curious what Casio has better action than Roland fp30 in same category, I tried the 1000 and 3000 thry were super noisey and the sou d didnt compare. My issue with fp30 is muddy in the bass, and no onboard sounds. I am looking for great sound and action in the under $1500 range to start out

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Originally Posted by Dyffryn Studios
Hi Fleer,
Be interested to hear how you get on with it. I did think mine had a display fault as the the backlight gives a slightly uneven, but symmetrical light across the display , triangles from the top and sides..but I can see the same effect in the the demo videos , so no return required.


I am still looking for a good carry case if anyone has found one thats a good fit , with protection and not too big that I can use ?
Sorry I didn’t see your post until now. Love my RD-88, wonderful action. That display is just fine. Not hi-res of course, but MainStage compatibility solves everything. Best Buy without a doubt.

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I am curious which Casio sounds better or has better action, tried the 1000 and 3000 and they felt quite plasticky for me. Please advise

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Casio's best sounds and action in a portable slab with speakers is the PX-560. Whether it feels or sounds better than the RD88 is probably subjective. Also, see my Jan 17 post about this earlier in this thread.

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Is the Px 560 lower or higher end than the 1000 and 3000, bit confusing

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I shouldn't have said that the PX-560 has Casio's best sound and action in a slab, because it's subjective, and each has advantages.

Overall, the PX560 is a higher end model. It sells for $1200 vs. $850 for the PX-S3000. It has a lot more functionality overall.

Which action is better can be subjective... the new one is supposed to be quieter and less bouncy, but the older one has a longer pivot and triple sensor. I have not heard the PX-S3000, but it may have better sounds, I don't know. It may depend on which sounds you're comparing. For example, you might like the acoustic piano better on the newer model, but the EPs better on the old.

Some PX560 advantages include
* 256 polyphony (vs. 192)
* touchscreen interface
* full sound editing
* modulation wheel
* split/layer up to 4 tones (or 24 tones via hexlayers), vs. only 2
* 5-pin MIDI connections + USB (vs. USB only)
* 16 track sequencer

There are some other advantages to the newer PX-S3000 though...
* battery operation
* bluetooth

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Can anyone comment on how the rd88 sounds yet?


Rob Morris, Nantwich, England
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Better string resonance than the RD2000 on the SuperNatural pianos.

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Sorry, I was really meaning through its internal speakers.


Rob Morris, Nantwich, England
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It sounds very good!

FPlays #3045154 11/12/20 08:31 AM
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Because I’m trying to decide between the RD88 and FP60. It has to be okay for playing in the flat, portable and powerful enough to play in a session with a couple of mates without external speakers.


Rob Morris, Nantwich, England
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Roland's top FP90 uses a biamped speaker system (25 w/ch + 5 w/ch) for what they say is a max volume of 107 dB.
The FP60 is 13 w/ch, with a max volume of 103 dB.
The RD88 is 6 w/ch but they don't give a max volume spec. Assuming they are measuring wattage the same way across the line and that they are using the same speakers (or at least ones of similar efficiency), the RD88 should max out at a bit under 100 dB.

There are SPL apps for smartphones. You could play whatever instrument you have (or recorded music through speakers) to get an idea of how loud 100 dB is, vs. 103 vs. 107.

If one of your mates is a drummer, you'll need all the volume you can get! ;-)

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No drums but sax and trumpet so I will need all the volume I can get. Only ruling out on the FP90 because I don’t fancy lugging it around!


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I doubt the RD88 speakers will do. Perhaps add iLoud micro monitors (107dB; 1.7kg pair)?
The ES920 weighs 16kg and is declared 2*20W, no SPL given.

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Yes I like the look of the 920 but I’m used to Roland and though the Es920 looks great there seemed to be some concerns on that long thread. You’d get that with almost anything but perhaps it is not so ‘tried and tested’ yet?


Rob Morris, Nantwich, England
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I have RD88 an love it for the key bed , huge sound library and the easy integration with computer, but agree the inbuilt speakers are good for bedroom and solo or practice with say an acoustic guitar player but do not have the punch and power of digital pianos with built in speakers. They have their uses but anything more powerful would have added significantly more weight. The right compromise for me. I play with drummer and lead guitarist etc so no piano is loud enough for that :-) I use a pair of Yamaha DB12's so I can make my presence felt ! or Roland AC90 fo acoustic type gigs when no drummer. ..Trumpets are loud ! Hope that helps

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Yes that does help as I’m only playing in an acoustic setting. If your Roland ac90 works then I have a Crate Telluride 125 which is an acoustic guitar amp that should work just as well.


Rob Morris, Nantwich, England
Roland DP603, ex DP970. Mainly jazz, some blues.