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Originally Posted by Falsch
Originally Posted by Meap6
Originally Posted by Mike192
+1

My CA99 wouldn’t accept one of my old USB stick either. Then I bought a new (expensive) one and it worked!

I could accept that the piano straight up rejects some USB keys, but that it works just fine for an arbitrary number of recordings and then starts having issues is weird !

That's not weird, it's almost the default. There's much more junk around with regard to flash memory than you could ever believe.

In one of the local big box retailers in my neighborhood you can find nameless 64 GB USB-sticks for €3. They're junk. The flash memory wears out in under a few weeks if you start writing to them regularly. Same for their nameless SD-cards.

Never had that problem with Sandisk stuff, but you'll pay (a lot) more than €3 for 64 GB.

No need to get rude Falsch, the problem is always the variability.

Flashdrives are not uniform. Even some high end drives don't work in devices because their power draw was too high for the usb controller in the host device.

So, brand and cost is not a perfect indicator either. You just have to try a bunch.

I recommend getting something in the middle, not their uber turbocharged models which undoubtedly has a higher power draw because it needs a faster onboard processor to handle the data rate. Even when the data rate is low, these chipsets won't trottle, which causes constant high draw. This can overwhelm the controller on the host, or cause it to trigger an over current error.

If meap can't get it to work, I'd say using digital out to a laptop is best for recording a digital piano.

Last edited by EinLudov; 05/04/21 10:11 AM.
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Originally Posted by Falsch
Originally Posted by Meap6
Originally Posted by Mike192
+1

My CA99 wouldn’t accept one of my old USB stick either. Then I bought a new (expensive) one and it worked!

I could accept that the piano straight up rejects some USB keys, but that it works just fine for an arbitrary number of recordings and then starts having issues is weird !

That's not weird, it's almost the default. There's much more junk around with regard to flash memory than you could ever believe.

In one of the local big box retailers in my neighborhood you can find nameless 64 GB USB-sticks for €3. They're junk. The flash memory wears out in under a few weeks if you start writing to them regularly. Same for their nameless SD-cards.

Never had that problem with Sandisk stuff, but you'll pay (a lot) more than €3 for 64 GB.

I have been using these keys for a couple years without much issue, transferring data to and fro, big and small files. They work just fine.
I can accept that some USB sticks are junk.
Call me paranoid, but 2 keys that have been working perfectly fine for years suddenly start having problems when I use them to store recordings with this DP looks more like an issue with the DP than the keys. More so when I've been using one of these keys to record on my previous DP for a couple years.

Edit: I've ordered a SanDisk 32G key. Let's hope I don't have to make a similar post in 3 weeks.

Last edited by Meap6; 05/04/21 11:22 AM.

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Originally Posted by Meap6
I have been using these keys for a couple years without much issue, transferring data to and fro, big and small files. They work just fine.
I can accept that some USB sticks are junk.
Call me paranoid, but 2 keys that have been working perfectly fine for years suddenly start having problems when I use them to store recordings with this DP looks more like an issue with the DP than the keys. More so when I've been using one of these keys to record on my previous DP for a couple years.

Edit: I've ordered a SanDisk 32G key. Let's hope I don't have to make a similar post in 3 weeks.

meap, kawai's machine is not windows 10. It doesn't have the ability to deal with a wide range of hardware.

USB sticks look all the same on the outside, they are all very different on the inside, different controllers, different programmed behaviors, different cache behaviors, different wear leveling algorithms.

I agree with you that Kawai probably could've done a better job, but, usb stick incompatibility with things OTHER THAN a desktop pc is also very common.

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Originally Posted by EinLudov
Originally Posted by Meap6
I have been using these keys for a couple years without much issue, transferring data to and fro, big and small files. They work just fine.
I can accept that some USB sticks are junk.
Call me paranoid, but 2 keys that have been working perfectly fine for years suddenly start having problems when I use them to store recordings with this DP looks more like an issue with the DP than the keys. More so when I've been using one of these keys to record on my previous DP for a couple years.

Edit: I've ordered a SanDisk 32G key. Let's hope I don't have to make a similar post in 3 weeks.

meap, kawai's machine is not windows 10. It doesn't have the ability to deal with a wide range of hardware.

USB sticks look all the same on the outside, they are all very different on the inside, different controllers, different programmed behaviors, different cache behaviors, different wear leveling algorithms.

I agree with you that Kawai probably could've done a better job, but, usb stick incompatibility with things OTHER THAN a desktop pc is also very common.

I understand this, I really do. However,
Originally Posted by Meap6
More so when I've been using one of these keys to record on my previous DP for a couple years.
I also expect that when a DP less than a third the price of the CA79 is capable of saving recordings with no issue whatsoever on the same USB key, the CA79 should be able to at the very least offer the same usability. I can assure you I recorded quite a bit on my previous keyboard, short and long pieces alike. I used a variety of USB sticks with it (including both keys I tried here, though mostly the first one) and have never had issues with any of them.
I get the CA series has its own OS, drivers, and whatnot, but come on !

Sorry if I sound dry, but it's honestly been pretty painful to keep using my daily piano practice session going back and forth between my PC and my DP to figure out what the heck is going on with my USB devices.


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Couple of weeks ago, I could not do an upgrade on my FP90X, no matter what I tried.

I bought a brand new Sandisk memory stick and it worked right away.

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Use the ca79 to format the usb drive and try again...

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Originally Posted by Chummy
Originally Posted by playplayplay

Nice to know they released this update to the public.

I was the one who found the indefinite sustain pedal bug when switching from dual layered sounds (I opened a thread here a while back) and let Kawai rep know.
Kawai did acknowledge and sent me a beta fix not available yet to the public which seemed to solve the issue - my version still shows v1.101 92FB (not v1.11). I will update to the official version soon for more stability. All in all, Kawai support has been great so far.

Not sure why I'm posting this. It's from the ES520/ES920 thread. The CA79/CA99 got 5 updates in 4 months after their release. The ES520/920 got 4 updates in 9 months. At least the release this week shows that they have some programmers alive and working and releasing updates.

Maybe what Kawai does is release a number of important updates in the first few months, and then waits a year or two to collect as many more issues as they can before making one last update. If this is the case, then our strategy should be to make sure we report everything, and not a stripped-down list of what some people feel is the most important or of what we think they might agree to do.


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Originally Posted by vagfilm
Use the ca79 to format the usb drive and try again...
My key was formatted by the DP.


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Originally Posted by Meap6
I have been using these keys for a couple years without much issue...

While we're citing anecdotal evidence, I've been using a Sandisk Cruiser Fit 32GB for several years (I recall I bought it around the time of the original MP7), using it to transfer files between computers, as well as to and from various Kawai DPs. I've never encountered any problems with this device.

Alas, my wallet was recently run-over by a car (true story!), squashing everything inside - including my trusty USB stick. After adjusting the plug with a screwdriver, I was at least able to plug in into my office PC, however the device was no longer readable, and couldn't be formatted, so I accepted that it was completely dead and ordered a replacement - another Sandisk.

I've received several free USB sticks from events and exhibitions over the years, but they're usually slow and can be unreliable.

Cheers,
James
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Originally Posted by RickM
The ES520/920 got 4 updates in 9 months.

To date, the ES520/ES920 have received two updates since release.

Or are you perhaps counting the two models separately (i.e. two for the ES520, two for the ES920)?

Kind regards,
James
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by RickM
The ES520/920 got 4 updates in 9 months.

To date, the ES520/ES920 have received two updates since release.

Or are you perhaps counting the two models separately (i.e. two for the ES520, two for the ES920)?

Good catch, thanks James.

For the CA79/99, I see I counted the original release, so it was 4 updates (not 5) in 4 months. Not sure what the heck I was looking at for the ES920. As you say, there have been 2 updates over 9 months since the original release.

I wasn't complaining. I think it's a good thing and encouraging to see some activity. IIRC somebody else complained a while ago that Kawai had been updating newer models and ignoring "our" CA79/99. My point was that when the CA79 & 99 were getting their updates a year ago, owners of older models may well have been waiting for updates and took exception to the attention the CA79/99 were getting. It doesn't seem necessary to begrudge other Kawai models getting updated. That is, as long as we eventually do get the fixes we've been discussing for so long.

I hope this makes sense!


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Originally Posted by Ampersand
Couple of weeks ago, I could not do an upgrade on my FP90X, no matter what I tried.

I bought a brand new Sandisk memory stick and it worked right away.
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Meap6
I have been using these keys for a couple years without much issue...

While we're citing anecdotal evidence, I've been using a Sandisk Cruiser Fit 32GB for several years (I recall I bought it around the time of the original MP7), using it to transfer files between computers, as well as to and from various Kawai DPs. I've never encountered any problems with this device.

Alas, my wallet was recently run-over by a car (true story!), squashing everything inside - including my trusty USB stick. After adjusting the plug with a screwdriver, I was at least able to plug in into my office PC, however the device was no longer readable, and couldn't be formatted, so I accepted that it was completely dead and ordered a replacement - another Sandisk.

I've received several free USB sticks from events and exhibitions over the years, but they're usually slow and can be unreliable.

Cheers,
James
x

Thanks for all the SanDisk success stories, I hope I'll be able to sing their praise too. I'll have the stick on friday, we'll see.


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Originally Posted by magicpiano
Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by magicpiano
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Kawai, there are definitely some issues with the UI of the CA79/99 and I think they should be fixed ASAP (and I hope they will) rather than just focusing on the developing of the next series of digital pianos.

Are you sure that’s what you want?[...]
Yes, absolutely. You have to take care of your loyal customers, if you want them to remain loyal to you.

And if we don't complain, manifacturers will think their products are perfect, so customers will never get updates.

We have a moral duty to complain! Pianistic humanity is at stake here...

Quote
[...]You will get your perfect UI and zero-buzz CA99 after the NV-20 is released; heck, I’ll even join you in complaining about the screen that doesn’t go black, but once again, let’s work together on this and be patient for the betterment of the community!
Well, I complain more for the lack of per-key customizations. For the screen you can always cover it with a black panel: issue fixed... But a missing function is just... Missing! (in action?)

Quite. I'd much rather they produced quality products late. Delay the NV-20 if that's required, hire more staff. Solving Kawai's internal production issues and challenges is really not our concern.


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You guys do know that ‘acoustics’ buzz, hiss, squeak, and woosh, right?

I’m just saying, since we’re always asking for piano makers to model/capture every little quirk associated with the acoustic (all the way up to escapement) perhaps Kawai took this to heart, and the ‘buzz’ is simply part of that absolute emulation?

“You asked for ‘that buzz’ acoustics make, and we simply gave it to you, but it seems like you’re now complaining about it; make up your mind(s), people,” said Kawai!

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Originally Posted by Pete14
...
we’re always asking for piano makers to model/capture every little quirk associated with the acoustic

I'm still waiting for that DP which models the keys going out of tune gradually over time smile So that every few months or so we will be required to "open up" the settings and tune/adjust every key manually...


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
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Originally Posted by mmathew
I'm still waiting for that DP which models the keys going out of tune gradually over time smile So that every few months or so we will be required to "open up" the settings and tune/adjust every key manually...

Wish granted!

The NV-20 will be designed to gradually go out of tune, and this will not be random. The piano will be embedded with a specialized sensor that will determine humidity, overall room temp., room dimensions & acoustics, etc.. and the piano will go out of tune accordingly.

Sadly, you will not be able to ‘tune’ the piano yourself, but only an authorized Kawai tech will be able/allowed to do this. If you attempt tuning the NV-20, the ‘sensor’ will alert us of your indiscretion, and your warranty will be voided!

We will also include Alexa built-in, but we promise not to listen in on your conversations, so go on with your “piano lesson”, we won’t tell a thing.....I’m sorry, I meant we won’t listen in....... blush

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Originally Posted by mmathew
Originally Posted by Pete14
...
we’re always asking for piano makers to model/capture every little quirk associated with the acoustic

I'm still waiting for that DP which models the keys going out of tune gradually over time smile So that every few months or so we will be required to "open up" the settings and tune/adjust every key manually...

Ha! Good one laugh
That sounds like a fun gimmick to have, a slider like the one in Pianoteq maybe ?


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Before you know where we are there will be an AI assistant analysing our playing, and promoting paid for additional learning resources which are "relevant" and for our benefit, instead of naked advertising. Carrying on from the theme of Microsoft's Office 365, it will also work out how much practising we have actually done vs should have done, and on what !


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Originally Posted by Dave Milne
Before you know where we are there will be an AI assistant analysing our playing, and promoting paid for additional learning resources which are "relevant" and for our benefit, instead of naked advertising. Carrying on from the theme of Microsoft's Office 365, it will also work out how much practising we have actually done vs should have done, and on what !

Hihi.
The data analyst in me would actually like if there were some tracked statistics on our playing.
Like numbers of keys pressed per day, or time spent practicing/playing, keeping track of how many times each key was pressed, to see average usage, etc
that would be pretty cool smile

Maybe I can do something like this through midi recording of my practice sessions and extracting the info from there.
Damn, now I have to see if I can pull it off !


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Bringing everyone back on track -

Are there any long term ownership reviews any one would like to share? Pictures maybe? I have also not heard many CA79/CA99 recordings of late... Issues/problems aside for a moment: the sound of the CA79/CA99, especially the warm mellow tones - are to die for - anyone care to share?


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
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