2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
61 members (c++, BlakeOR, Bach_ingMaddie, 3B43, Alex Hutor, brennbaer, 13 invisible), 367 guests, and 495 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 8 of 11 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 11
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 420
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 420
CG, why not using WordPress? I never heard about github.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,999
6000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,999
Originally Posted by pold
CG, why not using WordPress? I never heard about github.

GutHub is basically a frontend to a Git-based project system and git is version control system, it's used for open-source projects to allow for multiple people to commit source code changes, etc. I decided to use it because it contains the source code I wrote for the Teensy controller that is the main board for my project, it's the one that has a MIDI library and a USB and it's also the one that scans sequentially through the PCB-s that I designed and those PCB-s deal with translating the analog proximity information from the sensors into digital binary signals.

Since people may improve both the software code and the PCB designs, the best way is to have version-control system, so that any change/improvement/fix by any person will be stored and traced into the git log. This is the way open-source projects work. In a static blog such as Wordpress I can put a lot of information but it will be a static one, what I put there and other people won't be able to collaboratively contribute to the project.

Besides GitHub can automatically create GPLv3 open-source licenses for the project.

Last edited by CyberGene; 06/29/20 07:39 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 420
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 420
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by pold
CG, why not using WordPress? I never heard about github.

GutHub is basically a frontend to a Git-based project system and git is version control system, it's used for open-source projects to allow for multiple people to commit source code changes, etc. I decided to use it because it contains the source code I wrote for the Teensy controller that is the main board for my project, it's the one that has a MIDI library and a USB and it's also the one that scans sequentially through the PCB-s that I designed and those PCB-s deal with translating the analog proximity information from the sensors into digital binary signals.

Since people may improve both the software code and the PCB designs, the best way is to have version-control system, so that any change/improvement/fix by any person will be stored and traced into the git log. This is the way open-source projects work. In a static blog such as Wordpress I can put a lot of information but it will be a static one, what I put there and other people won't be able to collaboratively contribute to the project.

Besides GitHub can automatically create GPLv3 open-source licenses for the project.

nice to know that, thanx

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 587
S
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 587
I think what you've achieved is sort of the "Holy Grail" of "digital " pianos.

Bravo!

Perhaps you should patent it and sell it to Kawai?

I'm a saxophonist first. They are "Swiss Cheese Cones," so their "Holy Grail" is to shut them up while practicing. Yamaha makes it's "Silent Brass" mutes for trumpet and other closed system brass instruments.

I'm toying with several methods to achieve this. Any snappy ideas?

- Jeff


Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,999
6000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,999
Originally Posted by Skyscrapersax
Perhaps you should patent it and sell it to Kawai?
They have a patented piano like that, the NV10 wink And I own the Yamaha counterpart, the N1X, so the big sharks cannot be challenged by me. But at least it’s a good hobby for handy people smile


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 438
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 438
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Skyscrapersax
Perhaps you should patent it and sell it to Kawai?
They have a patented piano like that, the NV10 wink And I own the Yamaha counterpart, the N1X, so the big sharks cannot be challenged by me. But at least it’s a good hobby for handy people smile

Yamaha and Kawai definitely not.

M&H or Steingraeber perhaps.

PianoDisc or QRS (Story & Clark), especially the latter, would be very interested too.

I think this project has potential beyond just hobby for handy people (without dismissing that, as many have said, also in response to my earlier comment).

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,513
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,513
Well, there are many ways to skin a cat, I'm sure anyone looking to get into the field has a number of different techniques to pursue.

Also, prosecuting a patent is one thing, enforcing it and building out a business based on it is an entirely different level of commitment/effort.

For a hobbyist, it makes a ton of sense to publish it and open source the idea and actually advance and enrich the field (and establish prior art in the process).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,374
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,374
Publishing a patent means formulating a set of assertions that none other have applied. I suspect that the DIY here share too much similarities with of AventGrand and Novus that it could be difficult to write such sentences.

A patent is typically written like 1/ An apparatus which has (such little characteristic), 2/ an apparatus like describe by 1/ which has (An other little characteristic)... etc.

The more specific sentences (like 2/) may not protect you enough if the other product is too different (doesn’t share all characteristics). On the other way, the less specific sentences will have more chance to have been already made by a previous system and can’t be protected. This explains the gradation of sentences from the less specific one (1/ a device with a grand piano action which act as a MIDI controller), to more specific ones (2/ a device describe by 2 where the key movement us capture by an optical sensor, 3/ a device describe by 2 where ...)

A patent is interesting if we can describe by word something 1/ which hasn’t been done, 2/ where we have some incentive (a monopoly) too avoid this to be done by others.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 06/29/20 04:12 PM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,999
6000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,999
Patent is out of the question.

I don’t want to underestimate my own creation and I believe it’s the most complex and interesting thing I’ve ever created (and I doubt I will ever do something as fun and good again) but frankly I haven’t done anything so special or finished. It’s just a niche DIY project which makes it a bit unique but there’s nothing special or innovative in it. I’ve seen hobby projects that are depressingly more complicated in both mechanical and electrical aspect smile With that in mind an open source project is the best thing.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 587
S
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 587
Interesting... Any ideas on the sax mute?

What does your creation weigh?

I didn't know that Kawai / Yamaha had similar creations. I own the MP11.


Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 193
V
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 193
@CG: glad for your honest and realistic view about your excellent project. Patents and so forth are unrealistic for this case. I'm a biomedical researcher in academia (sensory neurophysiology from intracranial arrays of electrodes), and although sometimes me and my team develop pieces of software and hardware that surpass many commercial solutions, making into a business requires a level of commitmment that is simply not practical. In my field, the current trend is open-source...

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,722
C
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,722
A sax mute is a totally different topic.

And it's off-topic for this forum.

Have a look at "electronic wind instruments" with saxophone fingering.

Maybe https://www.akaipro.com/ewi-usb

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,481
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,481
One more vote for the GitHub repo, mostly because I'm interested in seeing your code smile

Last edited by Chrispy; 06/30/20 12:20 AM.

Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545, R. Schumann Fantasy Dance, Joplin The Chrysanthemum
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO, Piano de Voyage
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 357
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by CyberGene
They have a patented piano like that, the NV10 wink And I own the Yamaha counterpart, the N1X, so the big sharks cannot be challenged by me. But at least it’s a good hobby for handy people smile

I am convinced they can be challenged by your project, CyberGene, at least technically. Open source can be very powerful, and both in software and hardware there are great projects that surpassed in many ways commercial alternatives. Git/Github is a good choice. I am looking forward to your repository. I could also help with some aspects if needed.

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 4
M
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 4
I would also like to add a vote for seeing this on github! I've been checking in every now and again to see if any code is being released. I have some projects in the works and seeing more details on how you've implemented things would be really helpful.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,999
6000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,999
👍🏻


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 438
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 438
And I have a question. I guess in part I can answer that from the pictures, but I'd like the full one. Would this project be non-invasive enough to be performed on an actual grand without jeopardizing the needs of the acoustic? I'll bet is much better than the QRS or PianoDisc MIDI strip which they put under the keys..... and I'm thinking of doing it that way, rather than building a separate instrument....

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,999
6000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,999
The only “invasion” to the action are the two long threaded screws (not sure about the English name) that hold the hammer stop rail. They required drilling holes in the wooden rail that holds the whippens:
[Linked Image]

Just two holes on each side, not a big deal but you can avoid even that if you create a cabinet to slide the action inside and the cabinet itself has stop rails for either the hammers or the shanks.

The rectangular aluminum frame that holds the sensors and the PCB-s is held by the existing screws of the hammer base rail, I only removed the washers, so the frame acts as washers:

[Linked Image]


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 438
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 438
Thanks Cybergene for the quick response and the high resolution pictures! Just FYI, I think the name of the "long screw" is "threaded rod" or less likely "long bolt" (I am not native speaker either, even though I live in the USA).

Everything sounds great, but I have two more questions:

1) if the action is inside the grand and it is used to make sound by hitting the strings, the stop rail is unnecessary, right? In one use case, I just would like to capture the MIDI of an acoustic performance....

2) it looks like there is a lot of electronics in the way of the action, which may be a problem for a technician doing regulation. Since you yourself now are a technician doing regulations :-) can you comment on that? If the amount of electronics is indeed a problem, could be the L-shaped aluminum rail holding all the cards in front of the action be replaced with hinges? Those hinges could be normally kept in position by some short flat aluminum rails at the ends (making the L into triangles), but then they could be "unlocked" and moved when needed? Or is removing the front of the frame with all the cards, when needed, not a big deal anyway?

Thanks,
Davide

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,999
6000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,999
You don’t need the stop rail if you will be using the keyboard inside a working piano with strings.

I don’t have the original piano, only got the action but I believe it would slide inside the piano with no modifications, depending on how high the front panel is for the action to slide beneath.

The entire frame with everything I created can be detached by unscrewing 5 screws total. Two on each side + 1 in the middle. Those are screws that hold the front wooden rail that holds the hammer bases. I haven’t used all the screws though (there are two more on that rail to still hold it when I remove my frame; I don’t want for the wooden rail to become loose). Here’s a picture of the frame with everything:
[Linked Image]

Last edited by CyberGene; 07/04/20 10:10 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Page 8 of 11 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 11

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawai MP8 MIDI Latency
by Steve_B - 06/24/21 02:15 PM
Clavinova CLP100 no sound on left
by Tony Arnold - 06/24/21 10:33 AM
Recommend me a stand for my Kawai ES920
by Jojovan - 06/24/21 08:42 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics207,682
Posts3,106,877
Members101,897
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5