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#3005780 07/23/20 05:43 AM
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Given the observed intervals between new versions of Pianoteq being issued, the coming version 7 should arrive at either of these points in time:

  • July 2019
  • October 2019
  • November 2020
  • January 2021


The first two dates mentioned will be relatively difficult for Modarrt to make, but the other two are within reach. The average date of the four is April 2020, and the median is the same.

In conclusion, whatever date will be the actual one, Modarrt is progressing slower than they normally do.


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There’s also the possibility Pianoteq reached its max potential and any further update is impossible.


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
There’s also the possibility Pianoteq reached its max potential and any further update is impossible.

It is of course quite conceivable that Pianoteq has already reached perfection. But it seems to me that there is still a residual difference between Pianoteqs sound and that of acoustic pianos. This would then imply that makers of acoustic pianos need to step up their game to bring the sound of their pianos into agreement with that of Pianoteq. smile


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I'm not talking about perfection because it's not perfect. But maybe the modeling approach used in Pianoteq has been implemented in its full potential and no further improvement is possible with this approach and/or with the current computation architectures and personal computers.


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I'm not talking about perfection because it's not perfect. But maybe the modeling approach used in Pianoteq has been implemented in its full potential and no further improvement is possible with this approach and/or with the current computation architectures and personal computers.

It may well be that their model has no further parameters to tune. But since it is still not perfect that would mean that their model could be improved, thereby allowing further tuning. Also, the CPU requirements are so far quite low, and there is quite some scope for increasing CPU demands.

I would say that if Modarrt are not working on enhancing their basic model, then they should be ashamed of themselves.


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I think Philippe has kind of confirmed their current modeling approach is not the one described in their patent from years ago. If that is to be interpreted literally, it means they have entirely changed the modeling approach in some of their recent major versions. Since Pianoteq sound has reached some saturation, I think their current algorithms/approach has reached its full potential. If another improvement is sought, new algorithm should be implemented, but that's not just something you do regularly. It may not be possible with current computers, etc.


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Pianoteq7 is ready to ship, but sadly it is so demanding on CPU resources that current computers cannot handle it. The company is now forced to wait for quantum computers to be released.

So yes, it’ll be at least a decade before we see Pianoteq7.

You guys wanted ‘pure’ modeling (“no approximations”), and Modartt has done just that, but now the paradox is that we can’t play that holy grail even though it is the most playable of all!

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My official prognostication says that Pianoteq will not release v7 in time to meet either of your first two dates.
You said that it will be "difficult" to make those dates. But I'm firmly convinced that those dates are impossible.
Call it a hunch. Or inspired insight. smile
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Given the observed intervals between new versions of Pianoteq being issued, the coming version 7 should arrive at either of these points in time:
  • July 2019
  • October 2019
  • November 2020
  • January 2021
The first two dates mentioned will be relatively difficult for Modarrt to make, but the other two are within reach.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
My official prognostication says that Pianoteq will not release v7 in time to meet either of your first two dates.
You said that it will be "difficult" to make those dates. But I'm firmly convinced that those dates are impossible.
Call it a hunch. Or inspired insight. smile

Your hunch might just be spot on, but don't write off time travel completely. smile


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
There’s also the possibility Pianoteq reached its max potential and any further update is impossible.

I thought you worked in software. There is always a need for an update regardless if it actually adds any value. smile


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It's easy to update piano hardware. You throw in tail fins, cup holders, and then invent some silly acronyms.
Then you just append every feature name with "technology" ... and you've got a new release.

But with software you actually have to do some work. It's hard!
Originally Posted by Peddler100
Originally Posted by CyberGene
There’s also the possibility Pianoteq reached its max potential and any further update is impossible.
I thought you worked in software. There is always a need for an update regardless if it actually adds any value. smile

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Originally Posted by Peddler100
Originally Posted by CyberGene
There’s also the possibility Pianoteq reached its max potential and any further update is impossible.

I thought you worked in software. There is always a need for an update regardless if it actually adds any value. smile

Yes, this is why from time to time they (we) mess up the software in a FUBAR fashion and customers stop automatic upgrades, etc., etc. There are people still on Windows XP. BTW, I never got what was wrong with XP, it was so good, why would they need to update it. I've been on Mac for quite long now and I still see this desire in Apple to break something that's perfect and needs no updates whatsoever. Apple are the king of f***ng up perfect functionality and replacing it with cr*p frown

Last edited by CyberGene; 07/23/20 08:56 AM.

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Right now the buzz word is AI (artificial intelligence). The next version will be call Pianoteq 7 AI. It will include a new neural network modelled acoustic pianos. Don't ask me for a release date, I already said too much.



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Originally Posted by Serge88
Right now the buzz word is AI (artificial intelligence). The next version will be call Pianoteq 7 AI. It will include a new neural network modelled acoustic pianos. Don't ask me for a release date, I already said too much.

It must be a collaboration with Elon Musk.

Pianoteq 7 AI will mold itself to your preferences and learn your acoustic desires to become whatever piano you want. Pretty advanced stuff!


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Originally Posted by kimby
Originally Posted by Serge88
Right now the buzz word is AI (artificial intelligence). The next version will be call Pianoteq 7 AI. It will include a new neural network modelled acoustic pianos. Don't ask me for a release date, I already said too much.

It must be a collaboration with Elon Musk.

Pianoteq 7 AI will mold itself to your preferences and learn your acoustic desires to become whatever piano you want. Pretty advanced stuff!

Maybe it will be able to complete music that you start - possibly even with an override setting which replaces your own playing with the softwares highly precise guess at what you wanted to play. No more badly timed or wrong notes. Only the pure bliss of what Pianoteq thinks you want to hear/play. Mwa ha ha ha!

(It probably won't be Modarrt providing this, but my guess is this sort of technology will come, prevail, and destroy. And all shall love it, and despair).


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Considering that Pianoteq 6 sound is still far from perfect, and that they sample real piano sounds to build their models, Modartt still has a lot of headroom for improvement in the core modeling and rendering departments.

The main challenge with such updates is that their already released piano models will not benefit from whatever improvements delivered with P7 until Modartt upgrade these models as well. Which I don't think they will do for free if at all.

Last edited by VladK; 07/23/20 11:47 AM.

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Originally Posted by kimby
Originally Posted by Serge88
Right now the buzz word is AI (artificial intelligence). The next version will be call Pianoteq 7 AI. It will include a new neural network modelled acoustic pianos. Don't ask me for a release date, I already said too much.

It must be a collaboration with Elon Musk.

Pianoteq 7 AI will mold itself to your preferences and learn your acoustic desires to become whatever piano you want. Pretty advanced stuff!

Lol, Pianoteq 7 will be the first VST sent into space laugh


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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Lol, Pianoteq 7 will be the first VST sent into space laugh

Yep, Mask will deploy 174 low orbit satellites with free Pianoteq over Internet for everybody to learn how high latency and dropouts make players cry! grin


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I almost had a revelation yesterday evening. Having fixed my piano problems last weekend I decided to have look through my VSTs, and try one I've not used lately.

So I chose Pianoteq 6 demo. As I recall the only semi-usable piano in the set (I did not say good, I said semi-usable) was the Bechstein, so I fired it up.
And to my amazement it sounded pretty good. It could use a bit of tweaking in the reverb, etc. But overall ... not bad.

So whuzzup with that? Have my ears changed radically?

Then I realized that I had not shut down Kontakt. I was playing the Vintage D alongside of Pianoteq.
So I shut off Kontakt ... and then the Bechstein sounded like the usual Pianoteq disappointment.

To Vlad's point: Yes, it needs improvement.

To CyberGene's point: "... I think their current algorithms/approach has reached its full potential. If another improvement is sought, new algorithm should be implemented ..."
So I'm not anticipating much in Pianoteq 7.

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Philippe commented on a thread on Pianoworld that version 7 is being worked on as well a iPad version. Which I guess they would have to with Apple going to ARM in the next couple of years.


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