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“Michael Williams Allegro III”.

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Originally Posted by Michael Kawai CA79
I have had my CA79 since 30 of june and it is in use at least a couple of hours every day. There is no rattle, hiss or strange sounds in any way. Just wanted to say this.

Same here.


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I have had my CA79 since March and I have not had any problems either.


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Kawai makes good units, you just have to try and find a good one.

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I'm also really torn apart between the CLP-785 and CA99. Mu situation is like this. Currently I own a Roland FP-90 and I'm not so happy with it anymore. Initially, my primary concern was that I couldn't play fast repetitions consistently on the PHA-50 keyboard. While I've seen La Campanella being performed on LX-17 with the same PHA-50 keyboard as well as robot playing repetitions on PHA-50 super fast and consistently on video, I can't do it on my DP. So I went to the music shop to try it on some other instruments including acoustic ones. It turned out that it's so much easier for me to get consistent repetitions on Kawai CA79 with Grand Feel III keyboard. But I quickly found a much more important issue. When I tried GFIII keyboard somehow it felt both heavier and yet more sensitive than my PHA-50 keyboard, it was very hard for me to control dynamics and overall felt very unusual. But then I tried several acoustic uprights and GPs from both Kawai and Yamaha and every single one of them (including Yamaha) felt unusual to me in the exact same way as CA79: keyboards are too heavy and yet too sensitive. So it became apparent that GFIII does a much better job at representing acoustic keyboards (at least Kawai and Yamaha ones) than Roland PHA-50. So I decided that I'm done with Roland, I'm already accustomed to it, but I don't like how acoustic instruments (and very good ones for that) feel so much different from what I'm used to now. I almost decided to order CA99 on the spot (I only played CA79, but I know that CA99 uses the same keyboard which I liked). The problem is that there are only Kawai DPs in show rooms where I live. And I somehow feel that Yamaha may suite me even better, especially since I play using headphones a lot, and Yamaha have binaural samples. Is there any general opinion on the Yamaha GroundTouch vs Kawai GrandFeel III yet? I wonder if Yamaha's GrandTouch gets as close in feeling to Yamaha's acoustic pianos as Kawai GrandFeel III gets to theirs.

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Try Clp 745, too..
It's a tad lighter than Ca79 keys, as they say in this forum.

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Originally Posted by Otavio
Try Clp 745, too..
It's a tad lighter than Ca79 keys, as they say in this forum.
I haven't seen anyone claim that the CLP-745 keys feel lighter than the CA79 keys?

CA79: A0 is about 53/54 grams, C8 is about 45/46 grams.
CLP-745: A0 is about 62/63 grams, C8 is about 45/46 grams.
Additionally the CA79 keys are longer.

I tested multiple instruments of both models.

The CA79 has the more accurate weighting.

Last edited by Burkie; 10/01/20 01:27 AM.

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Ok, so it's the other way around.

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Burkey, you seem to know much about keyboards. Do you know the weight of CLP-785 keys and also if they length is the same as CA79 ones?

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Originally Posted by Nifrigel
Burkey, you seem to know much about keyboards. Do you know the weight of CLP-785 keys and also if they length is the same as CA79 ones?
The 785 I measured had key downweight about 20% heavier than the CA79/CA99 - around 75/76 grams at A0. Note that I only found one model of the 785 to measure (whereas the others I've measured multiple instruments of each model). Basically it feels like a Yamaha upright piano, whereas the Kawais feel more like a grand action.

The 685 had the longer keys than the CA79/CA99, about 26 cm - so I expect they are the same length in the 785. From memory, he CA79/CA99 keys are about 24 cm.

Last edited by Burkey; 10/01/20 08:00 PM.

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Originally Posted by 9190
Originally Posted by mwf
My ca99 keeps giving me issues, initially a heavy key, which was fixed, now i have a few sqeeking keys even after technician came out and fixed it... No way on earth I'm keeping it now and won't buy kawai ever again, at least not digital piano wise... I'm getting 785, i honestly can't reccomend the ca99, if you want reliability my vote is yamaha, never had major issues with their clavinovas and I've owned many different models over the years.

All these people complaining about issues with their ca79/ca99 are factual evidence kawai's quality control is poor. I've lost confidence in them now, and I'm a first time buyer of a kawai product.

smile Wow, what a contrast to this:
Originally Posted by mwf
My god the new clp 700 series looks set to flop big time, imo clavinova have only declined in quality over the years, peaking at the clp 380 which I owned, great piano and speaker system. I would only consider kawai key beds now, much lighter and realistic and easier to play like a concert grand is. Yamaha are overly heavy with all their keyboards. Their press releases and new instrument reveals and media are a joke now, no one is surprised or slightly amazed by anything new they bring out. I dont even consider them competition to the other brands anymore, they are a joke, trash company with garbage instruments.
I think this highlights that Yamaha have improved over the years.

A decade ago they didn't hold a candle to Roland, however they have now caught up (in quality & key actions) and overtaken Roland in a few other areas (sound). Roland need to stop resting on their laurels and get innovating - they seem to be rolling out many dozens of other innovative digital products this year but they are neglecting the piano market (hopefully this is just a temporary delay due to COVID-19).

Last edited by Burkey; 10/01/20 09:20 PM.

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Burkey, I know that this is just your opinion, however please allow me to express mine.

Originally Posted by Burkey
A decade ago they [Yamaha] didn't hold a candle to Roland...

I do not agree. Yamaha also produced very strong instruments in the 2010s.

Originally Posted by Burkey
...however they have now caught up (in quality & key actions) and overtaken Roland in a few other areas (sound).

I agree that Yamaha instruments have continued to improve in quality and realism over the years, however the same can also be said of Kawai, Roland, Casio, etc. I do not agree that Yamaha has "overtaken Roland" - the individual technologies developed by each company all have their own merits, we cannot say that one approach is objectively "better" than the other.

Originally Posted by Burkey
Roland need to stop resting on their laurels and get innovating... they are neglecting the piano market.

I do not agree. The most recent LX models introduced a new, improved modelled piano sound engine and a new keyboard action.

Kind regards,
James
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
I do not agree. Yamaha also produced very strong instruments in the 2010s.

Kind regards,
James
x
I think perhaps you misread what I wrote: 'A decade ago' means models released prior to 2010. We are in agreement regarding the 2010s.

Last edited by Burkey; 10/01/20 09:56 PM.

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
I do not agree. The most recent LX models introduced a new, improved modelled piano sound engine.

Kind regards,
James
x
Many, many people on this forum (including many Roland fans like me) have found this new sound a step backwards - certainly not an 'innovation'. I believe their V-Piano modeling was an innovation, however this one isn't much of an evolution even.

Originally Posted by Kawai James
I do not agree. The most recent LX models introduced a new keyboard action.
Not all of them - the LX705 retains their old PHA-50 action.

Also I still wouldn't call the Hybrid Grand an innovation - more of an evolution. It still doesn't address long-standing Roland action issues:
1. Weight grading - it still has a non-linear grading, i.e. almost no difference between A0 and C4, versus a large difference between C4 and C8. Acoustics and other digitals don't suffer from this flaw.
2. Still too large a delta between the weights of A0 and C8. Whereas Kawai models are better in this respect.

Hopefully Roland release something soon that impresses - I know they have the talent to do it!

Last edited by Burkey; 10/01/20 10:17 PM.

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
however please allow me to express mine.
James, it is always a bonafide pleasure to read your posts - they're always welcome.

I know I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating:
I absolutely adore the innovative products the Japanese have bought to the world with their digital pianos - Kawai, Yamaha, Roland, Casio, Korg alike. The amount of stress, pain and suffering these products alleviate is immeasurable.

Indeed everyone involved with the piano industry is supporting one of humanity's most noble causes. And you, James, and a very big part of that nobility. Thank you for your valuable contributions over the years.

To that end, I hope I'm not being overly picky or critical - I'm just trying to express the views of a customer addicted to this magical continuous innovation from Japan smile

Last edited by Burkey; 10/01/20 10:32 PM.

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Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Kawai James
I do not agree. Yamaha also produced very strong instruments in the 2010s.

Kind regards,
James
x
I think perhaps you misread what I wrote: 'A decade ago' means models released prior to 2010. We are in agreement regarding the 2010s.

‘A decade ago’ literally means 2010; unless, of course, your decades run fifteen years long; which would then take us back to 2005!

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Originally Posted by Burkey
I think perhaps you misread what I wrote: 'A decade ago' means models released prior to 2010. We are in agreement regarding the 2010s.
James did not misread. If you meant prior to 2010, you should phrase it as 'more than a decade ago'.


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Hello Burkey,

Thank you for your kind words.

Originally Posted by Burkey
I think perhaps you misread what I wrote: 'A decade ago' means models released prior to 2010. We are in agreement regarding the 2010s.

Okay, perhaps there is a degree of flexibility in how we define "a decade". However, I don't believe that Yamaha instruments produced in 2009 were vastly inferior to those produced in 2011, were they?

Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Kawai James
I do not agree. The most recent LX models introduced a new keyboard action.
Not all of them - the LX705 retains their old PHA-50 action.

That's true, but I believe my point remains valid for the LX706 and LX708.

Kind regards,
James
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Originally Posted by Beowulf
You can find their keyboard action or sound unsuitable for your taste but one thing you can never fault Yamaha for is the quality of their products smile

Actually, this is factually incorrect. The first match of Yamaha P515's had issues reported here on Pianoworld. I have also gone back through pianoworld posts and discovered that Yamaha digitals are far from complaint free.

People shouldn't spread rumours they've heard about reliability without first checking.


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Originally Posted by sam777
Hello!

I ask for your help in choosing CLP 785 and CA99.
I read on the forum that the owners of KAWAI CA99 have many problems with their DP. For example white noise. Before I read about the problems, I had a great desire to buy exactly CA99.
As far as I understand, instead of a wooden deck, the Yamaha uses a vibro-speaker.
Sound and keyboard are very important to me. As well as reliability and durability. I don’t want to be disappointed because I want to buy for many years.

Hi Sam,

My advice is to go to a store and try out all the models in that price range to get a feel for the competition yourself.

I'm not going to contradict what anyone has said, but often, individual experiences of issues aren't so representative, also, the subjective opinions are not necessarily valid to your ears.

I would try both external amplification and with decent headphones (ask the store to let you test some nice cans after you use the store ones). If you can, go on a quiet time so you can really hear properly.

My last visit store helped show me that opinions here including mine were well away from experience.

I last played the Yamaha CLP685 and Kawai CA98, but also the LX708 (which was not as good as I had imagined) as well as most other brands Casio etc).

Please try keep an open mind, and test for at least a few hours. If you can, give the hybrids a try too, just to give you a reference.

Kind regards,
Doug


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