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Hello!

I ask for your help in choosing CLP 785 and CA99.
I read on the forum that the owners of KAWAI CA99 have many problems with their DP. For example white noise. Before I read about the problems, I had a great desire to buy exactly CA99.
As far as I understand, instead of a wooden deck, the Yamaha uses a vibro-speaker.
Sound and keyboard are very important to me. As well as reliability and durability. I don’t want to be disappointed because I want to buy for many years.

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Hi Sam,

Have you played both pianos?

I went to the store buy a CLP785GP because I wanted a grand piano body and ended up buying a Kawai. I experienced sharp pain in my hands after just 2 songs on the 785. I have never had pain in all the years of playing acoustics or digitals and haven't felt any pain since.
There isn't any other way to know which action/sound you're going to like, love, hate, you have to use your own hands and ears.

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Originally Posted by djvu10
Hi Sam,

Have you played both pianos?

I went to the store buy a CLP785GP because I wanted a grand piano body and ended up buying a Kawai. I experienced sharp pain in my hands after just 2 songs on the 785. I have never had pain in all the years of playing acoustics or digitals and haven't felt any pain since.
There isn't any other way to know which action/sound you're going to like, love, hate, you have to use your own hands and ears.
Do your hands hurt because the 785's keyboard is heavier than the kawai's?
I don't have any shops nearby to try at least one model. But I don't like heavy keyboard. Who has a better sound? 785 or 99?

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I often perform on a 9' Steinway and I tend to like grand piano actions. The 785 is not the heaviest action I've played, it just felt heavy in the most unrealistic way. There have been quite a few discussions in this forum about that particular action.

If you're interested in one of those 2 digital pianos, is there any chance you can move up to a hybrid? If the action is very important to you, a hybrid may be the only option

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Are you referring to the 685 rather than the 785?

Supposedly the ‘heaviness’ aspect has been lightened up a bit for the 785. Also, the 785 no longer resists, initially!

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I think you're right smile

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I think that you referring to 695gp...

I would wait some reviews to decide between Ca99 and 785..

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My ca99 keeps giving me issues, initially a heavy key, which was fixed, now i have a few sqeeking keys even after technician came out and fixed it... No way on earth I'm keeping it now and won't buy kawai ever again, at least not digital piano wise... I'm getting 785, i honestly can't reccomend the ca99, if you want reliability my vote is yamaha, never had major issues with their clavinovas and I've owned many different models over the years.

All these people complaining about issues with their ca79/ca99 are factual evidence kawai's quality control is poor. I've lost confidence in them now, and I'm a first time buyer of a kawai product.

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Originally Posted by mwf
My ca99 keeps giving me issues, initially a heavy key, which was fixed, now i have a few sqeeking keys even after technician came out and fixed it... No way on earth I'm keeping it now and won't buy kawai ever again, at least not digital piano wise... I'm getting 785, i honestly can't reccomend the ca99, if you want reliability my vote is yamaha, never had major issues with their clavinovas and I've owned many different models over the years.

All these people complaining about issues with their ca79/ca99 are factual evidence kawai's quality control is poor. I've lost confidence in them now, and I'm a first time buyer of a kawai product.

smile Wow, what a contrast to this:
Originally Posted by mwf
My god the new clp 700 series looks set to flop big time, imo clavinova have only declined in quality over the years, peaking at the clp 380 which I owned, great piano and speaker system. I would only consider kawai key beds now, much lighter and realistic and easier to play like a concert grand is. Yamaha are overly heavy with all their keyboards. Their press releases and new instrument reveals and media are a joke now, no one is surprised or slightly amazed by anything new they bring out. I dont even consider them competition to the other brands anymore, they are a joke, trash company with garbage instruments.

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You can find their keyboard action or sound unsuitable for your taste but one thing you can never fault Yamaha for is the quality of their products smile


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I’ve not tried the Yamaha 785, but when I went to a piano store to buy a digital piano, I tried the 685. My general opinion of Yamaha, especially their digital pianos, is that the keys are very heavy. I tried various dp and decided on the CA99 as it was in my price range, had a good action, and sounded better to my ears than the Yamaha (which was too bright for my taste). My ca99 was delivered by professional piano movers, and I’ve not experienced any of the problems other forum members have mentioned. I managed to re-create a loud buzz on the lower notes (C1,D1), but only because I had my tv on, which is plugged into the same 3way plug. I believe it’s also mentioned in the user guide to keep other electronic items, such as a tv, a good distance away, and preferably on a different power source.

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I hada a Yamaha CVP for years and my only complaint was that it key action was initially good for the day but kept wearing out so over the years spent a lot of time replacing these very fragile bits. It made me play too heavy and aggressively. I now own CA 79 and it is a breath of fresh air and by far the best both in sound and play-ability. You will only every hear on here the bits that are not right/faults and rarely that most have no issues. The buzzing most speak of is mainly down to earthing issues within their supply and not the instrument. Google earth loop. Best of luck with your choice. smile


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Originally Posted by 9190
Originally Posted by mwf
My ca99 keeps giving me issues, initially a heavy key, which was fixed, now i have a few sqeeking keys even after technician came out and fixed it... No way on earth I'm keeping it now and won't buy kawai ever again, at least not digital piano wise... I'm getting 785, i honestly can't reccomend the ca99, if you want reliability my vote is yamaha, never had major issues with their clavinovas and I've owned many different models over the years.

All these people complaining about issues with their ca79/ca99 are factual evidence kawai's quality control is poor. I've lost confidence in them now, and I'm a first time buyer of a kawai product.

smile Wow, what a contrast to this:
Originally Posted by mwf
My god the new clp 700 series looks set to flop big time, imo clavinova have only declined in quality over the years, peaking at the clp 380 which I owned, great piano and speaker system. I would only consider kawai key beds now, much lighter and realistic and easier to play like a concert grand is. Yamaha are overly heavy with all their keyboards. Their press releases and new instrument reveals and media are a joke now, no one is surprised or slightly amazed by anything new they bring out. I dont even consider them competition to the other brands anymore, they are a joke, trash company with garbage instruments.

Yikes! Busted. smile

People can change their minds, but this shows that it's probably not a good idea to be so categorical like mwf was.

God Bless,
David


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Yes i dont mention reliability of yamaha being poor in your highlighted parts though do I David... How sad you felt it necessary using your time to search out my comments from other posts, wow! You have that much time spare trying to make others look bad on a piano forum to make you look cool and clever, well done!

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After reading a lot of messages on the forum, I came to the conclusion that the CLP 745 would be a good choice. Am I right? I would hate to run into problems in Kawai (e.g. white noise) or very heavy keys in the CLP 785

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We have to seen reviews for all clavinova to confirm but I think that all the 700 series had substancial changes on the action..
More light
More responsive
Less static weight

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Hello mwf,

Originally Posted by mwf
My ca99 keeps giving me issues, initially a heavy key, which was fixed, now i have a few sqeeking keys even after technician came out and fixed it... No way on earth I'm keeping it now.

Sorry to hear that. I expect some squeaking keys could easily be fixed by a technician if the sound became too obnoxious.
But oh well, it sounds like your mind is already made up.

Best of luck with your next piano.

Kind regards,
James
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I have had my CA79 since 30 of june and it is in use at least a couple of hours every day. There is no rattle, hiss or strange sounds in any way. Just wanted to say this.

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Originally Posted by Michael Kawai CA79
I have had my CA79 since 30 of june and it is in use at least a couple of hours every day. There is no rattle, hiss or strange sounds in any way. Just wanted to say this.

I'm glad to hear – especially considering you'd have to change your forum name otherwise. :-)


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Originally Posted by Mickey_
I'm glad to hear – especially considering you'd have to change your forum name otherwise. :-)

Yes, and that would be very strange. "Michael Wersi" or "Michael Roland" does not sound that good. 😎

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“Michael Williams Allegro III”.

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Originally Posted by Michael Kawai CA79
I have had my CA79 since 30 of june and it is in use at least a couple of hours every day. There is no rattle, hiss or strange sounds in any way. Just wanted to say this.

Same here.


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I have had my CA79 since March and I have not had any problems either.


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Kawai makes good units, you just have to try and find a good one.

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I'm also really torn apart between the CLP-785 and CA99. Mu situation is like this. Currently I own a Roland FP-90 and I'm not so happy with it anymore. Initially, my primary concern was that I couldn't play fast repetitions consistently on the PHA-50 keyboard. While I've seen La Campanella being performed on LX-17 with the same PHA-50 keyboard as well as robot playing repetitions on PHA-50 super fast and consistently on video, I can't do it on my DP. So I went to the music shop to try it on some other instruments including acoustic ones. It turned out that it's so much easier for me to get consistent repetitions on Kawai CA79 with Grand Feel III keyboard. But I quickly found a much more important issue. When I tried GFIII keyboard somehow it felt both heavier and yet more sensitive than my PHA-50 keyboard, it was very hard for me to control dynamics and overall felt very unusual. But then I tried several acoustic uprights and GPs from both Kawai and Yamaha and every single one of them (including Yamaha) felt unusual to me in the exact same way as CA79: keyboards are too heavy and yet too sensitive. So it became apparent that GFIII does a much better job at representing acoustic keyboards (at least Kawai and Yamaha ones) than Roland PHA-50. So I decided that I'm done with Roland, I'm already accustomed to it, but I don't like how acoustic instruments (and very good ones for that) feel so much different from what I'm used to now. I almost decided to order CA99 on the spot (I only played CA79, but I know that CA99 uses the same keyboard which I liked). The problem is that there are only Kawai DPs in show rooms where I live. And I somehow feel that Yamaha may suite me even better, especially since I play using headphones a lot, and Yamaha have binaural samples. Is there any general opinion on the Yamaha GroundTouch vs Kawai GrandFeel III yet? I wonder if Yamaha's GrandTouch gets as close in feeling to Yamaha's acoustic pianos as Kawai GrandFeel III gets to theirs.

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Try Clp 745, too..
It's a tad lighter than Ca79 keys, as they say in this forum.

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Originally Posted by Otavio
Try Clp 745, too..
It's a tad lighter than Ca79 keys, as they say in this forum.
I haven't seen anyone claim that the CLP-745 keys feel lighter than the CA79 keys?

CA79: A0 is about 53/54 grams, C8 is about 45/46 grams.
CLP-745: A0 is about 62/63 grams, C8 is about 45/46 grams.
Additionally the CA79 keys are longer.

I tested multiple instruments of both models.

The CA79 has the more accurate weighting.

Last edited by Burkie; 10/01/20 01:27 AM.

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Ok, so it's the other way around.

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Burkey, you seem to know much about keyboards. Do you know the weight of CLP-785 keys and also if they length is the same as CA79 ones?

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Originally Posted by Nifrigel
Burkey, you seem to know much about keyboards. Do you know the weight of CLP-785 keys and also if they length is the same as CA79 ones?
The 785 I measured had key downweight about 20% heavier than the CA79/CA99 - around 75/76 grams at A0. Note that I only found one model of the 785 to measure (whereas the others I've measured multiple instruments of each model). Basically it feels like a Yamaha upright piano, whereas the Kawais feel more like a grand action.

The 685 had the longer keys than the CA79/CA99, about 26 cm - so I expect they are the same length in the 785. From memory, he CA79/CA99 keys are about 24 cm.

Last edited by Burkey; 10/01/20 08:00 PM.

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Originally Posted by 9190
Originally Posted by mwf
My ca99 keeps giving me issues, initially a heavy key, which was fixed, now i have a few sqeeking keys even after technician came out and fixed it... No way on earth I'm keeping it now and won't buy kawai ever again, at least not digital piano wise... I'm getting 785, i honestly can't reccomend the ca99, if you want reliability my vote is yamaha, never had major issues with their clavinovas and I've owned many different models over the years.

All these people complaining about issues with their ca79/ca99 are factual evidence kawai's quality control is poor. I've lost confidence in them now, and I'm a first time buyer of a kawai product.

smile Wow, what a contrast to this:
Originally Posted by mwf
My god the new clp 700 series looks set to flop big time, imo clavinova have only declined in quality over the years, peaking at the clp 380 which I owned, great piano and speaker system. I would only consider kawai key beds now, much lighter and realistic and easier to play like a concert grand is. Yamaha are overly heavy with all their keyboards. Their press releases and new instrument reveals and media are a joke now, no one is surprised or slightly amazed by anything new they bring out. I dont even consider them competition to the other brands anymore, they are a joke, trash company with garbage instruments.
I think this highlights that Yamaha have improved over the years.

A decade ago they didn't hold a candle to Roland, however they have now caught up (in quality & key actions) and overtaken Roland in a few other areas (sound). Roland need to stop resting on their laurels and get innovating - they seem to be rolling out many dozens of other innovative digital products this year but they are neglecting the piano market (hopefully this is just a temporary delay due to COVID-19).

Last edited by Burkey; 10/01/20 09:20 PM.

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Burkey, I know that this is just your opinion, however please allow me to express mine.

Originally Posted by Burkey
A decade ago they [Yamaha] didn't hold a candle to Roland...

I do not agree. Yamaha also produced very strong instruments in the 2010s.

Originally Posted by Burkey
...however they have now caught up (in quality & key actions) and overtaken Roland in a few other areas (sound).

I agree that Yamaha instruments have continued to improve in quality and realism over the years, however the same can also be said of Kawai, Roland, Casio, etc. I do not agree that Yamaha has "overtaken Roland" - the individual technologies developed by each company all have their own merits, we cannot say that one approach is objectively "better" than the other.

Originally Posted by Burkey
Roland need to stop resting on their laurels and get innovating... they are neglecting the piano market.

I do not agree. The most recent LX models introduced a new, improved modelled piano sound engine and a new keyboard action.

Kind regards,
James
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
I do not agree. Yamaha also produced very strong instruments in the 2010s.

Kind regards,
James
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I think perhaps you misread what I wrote: 'A decade ago' means models released prior to 2010. We are in agreement regarding the 2010s.

Last edited by Burkey; 10/01/20 09:56 PM.

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
I do not agree. The most recent LX models introduced a new, improved modelled piano sound engine.

Kind regards,
James
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Many, many people on this forum (including many Roland fans like me) have found this new sound a step backwards - certainly not an 'innovation'. I believe their V-Piano modeling was an innovation, however this one isn't much of an evolution even.

Originally Posted by Kawai James
I do not agree. The most recent LX models introduced a new keyboard action.
Not all of them - the LX705 retains their old PHA-50 action.

Also I still wouldn't call the Hybrid Grand an innovation - more of an evolution. It still doesn't address long-standing Roland action issues:
1. Weight grading - it still has a non-linear grading, i.e. almost no difference between A0 and C4, versus a large difference between C4 and C8. Acoustics and other digitals don't suffer from this flaw.
2. Still too large a delta between the weights of A0 and C8. Whereas Kawai models are better in this respect.

Hopefully Roland release something soon that impresses - I know they have the talent to do it!

Last edited by Burkey; 10/01/20 10:17 PM.

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
however please allow me to express mine.
James, it is always a bonafide pleasure to read your posts - they're always welcome.

I know I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating:
I absolutely adore the innovative products the Japanese have bought to the world with their digital pianos - Kawai, Yamaha, Roland, Casio, Korg alike. The amount of stress, pain and suffering these products alleviate is immeasurable.

Indeed everyone involved with the piano industry is supporting one of humanity's most noble causes. And you, James, and a very big part of that nobility. Thank you for your valuable contributions over the years.

To that end, I hope I'm not being overly picky or critical - I'm just trying to express the views of a customer addicted to this magical continuous innovation from Japan smile

Last edited by Burkey; 10/01/20 10:32 PM.

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Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Kawai James
I do not agree. Yamaha also produced very strong instruments in the 2010s.

Kind regards,
James
x
I think perhaps you misread what I wrote: 'A decade ago' means models released prior to 2010. We are in agreement regarding the 2010s.

‘A decade ago’ literally means 2010; unless, of course, your decades run fifteen years long; which would then take us back to 2005!

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Originally Posted by Burkey
I think perhaps you misread what I wrote: 'A decade ago' means models released prior to 2010. We are in agreement regarding the 2010s.
James did not misread. If you meant prior to 2010, you should phrase it as 'more than a decade ago'.


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Hello Burkey,

Thank you for your kind words.

Originally Posted by Burkey
I think perhaps you misread what I wrote: 'A decade ago' means models released prior to 2010. We are in agreement regarding the 2010s.

Okay, perhaps there is a degree of flexibility in how we define "a decade". However, I don't believe that Yamaha instruments produced in 2009 were vastly inferior to those produced in 2011, were they?

Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Kawai James
I do not agree. The most recent LX models introduced a new keyboard action.
Not all of them - the LX705 retains their old PHA-50 action.

That's true, but I believe my point remains valid for the LX706 and LX708.

Kind regards,
James
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Originally Posted by Beowulf
You can find their keyboard action or sound unsuitable for your taste but one thing you can never fault Yamaha for is the quality of their products smile

Actually, this is factually incorrect. The first match of Yamaha P515's had issues reported here on Pianoworld. I have also gone back through pianoworld posts and discovered that Yamaha digitals are far from complaint free.

People shouldn't spread rumours they've heard about reliability without first checking.


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Originally Posted by sam777
Hello!

I ask for your help in choosing CLP 785 and CA99.
I read on the forum that the owners of KAWAI CA99 have many problems with their DP. For example white noise. Before I read about the problems, I had a great desire to buy exactly CA99.
As far as I understand, instead of a wooden deck, the Yamaha uses a vibro-speaker.
Sound and keyboard are very important to me. As well as reliability and durability. I don’t want to be disappointed because I want to buy for many years.

Hi Sam,

My advice is to go to a store and try out all the models in that price range to get a feel for the competition yourself.

I'm not going to contradict what anyone has said, but often, individual experiences of issues aren't so representative, also, the subjective opinions are not necessarily valid to your ears.

I would try both external amplification and with decent headphones (ask the store to let you test some nice cans after you use the store ones). If you can, go on a quiet time so you can really hear properly.

My last visit store helped show me that opinions here including mine were well away from experience.

I last played the Yamaha CLP685 and Kawai CA98, but also the LX708 (which was not as good as I had imagined) as well as most other brands Casio etc).

Please try keep an open mind, and test for at least a few hours. If you can, give the hybrids a try too, just to give you a reference.

Kind regards,
Doug


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Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Kawai James
I do not agree. Yamaha also produced very strong instruments in the 2010s.

Kind regards,
James
x
I think perhaps you misread what I wrote: 'A decade ago' means models released prior to 2010. We are in agreement regarding the 2010s.

‘A decade ago’ literally means 2010
Yes: that is precisely what I intended smile

At the point in time 1 decade ago, in 2010 - which means at that time the only models in existence were those released before that point in time.

Last edited by Burkey; 10/02/20 06:55 AM.

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Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Nifrigel
Burkey, you seem to know much about keyboards. Do you know the weight of CLP-785 keys and also if they length is the same as CA79 ones?
The 785 I measured had key downweight about 20% heavier than the CA79/CA99 - around 75/76 grams at A0.

Hi Nifrigel - sorry I made a mistake there in my calculation.

The CA79/CA99 keys are about 53/54 grams at A0 - so the CLP-785 is up to 40% heavier, not 20%. I.e. it is very noticeable.

Last edited by Burkey; 10/02/20 07:07 AM.

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Originally Posted by Beowulf
Originally Posted by Burkey
I think perhaps you misread what I wrote: 'A decade ago' means models released prior to 2010. We are in agreement regarding the 2010s.
James did not misread. If you meant prior to 2010, you should phrase it as 'more than a decade ago'.
No - 'a decade ago' means the point in time 1 decade ago, i.e. as of 2010. Please go and research it if you don't believe me.

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Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Nifrigel
Burkey, you seem to know much about keyboards. Do you know the weight of CLP-785 keys and also if they length is the same as CA79 ones?
The 785 I measured had key downweight about 20% heavier than the CA79/CA99 - around 75/76 grams at A0.

Hi Nifrigel - sorry I made a mistake there in my calculation.

The CA79/CA99 keys are about 53/54 grams at A0 - so the CLP-785 is up to 40% heavier, not 20%. I.e. it is very noticeable.

Woow, that's a lot.

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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by Beowulf
You can find their keyboard action or sound unsuitable for your taste but one thing you can never fault Yamaha for is the quality of their products smile

Actually, this is factually incorrect. The first match of Yamaha P515's had issues reported here on Pianoworld. I have also gone back through pianoworld posts and discovered that Yamaha digitals are far from complaint free.

People shouldn't spread rumours they've heard about reliability without first checking.
I think you've gotten the words 'quality' and 'reliability' mixed up.


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Originally Posted by Beowulf
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by Beowulf
You can find their keyboard action or sound unsuitable for your taste but one thing you can never fault Yamaha for is the quality of their products smile

Actually, this is factually incorrect. The first match of Yamaha P515's had issues reported here on Pianoworld. I have also gone back through pianoworld posts and discovered that Yamaha digitals are far from complaint free.

People shouldn't spread rumours they've heard about reliability without first checking.
I think you've gotten the words 'quality' and 'reliability' mixed up.

If you mean quality, Yamaha, Kawai and Roland along with most of the major manufacturers (Nord, Kurzeil,Korg, Casio etc) all make high quality products.

Yamaha and Kawai make the most realistic instruments (action wise), then Casio, then Roland (discounting v. expensive and exclusive models not generally accessible).

I would not worship Yamaha, as they have no objective claim to be better than their competitors, except perhaps at amplification (which Kawai are catching up).


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Originally Posted by Doug M.
If you mean quality, Yamaha, Kawai and Roland along with most of the major manufacturers (Nord, Kurzeil,Korg, Casio etc) all make high quality products.

Yamaha and Kawai make the most realistic instruments (action wise), then Casio, then Roland (discounting v. expensive and exclusive models not generally accessible).

I would not worship Yamaha, as they have no objective claim to be better than their competitors, except perhaps at amplification (which Kawai are catching up).
You're right that they all do. Yet, no brand can be free of product defects. Personally, I received my Yamaha N1X which came with a defective pedal unit as well, and I believe there were some who received theirs with a broken fallboard hinge. But if you put these aside, their products generally have a great build quality, nice touch and finish to them, and like you said, amazing amplification which is arguably one of the best in the business.


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Originally Posted by Burkey
Hi Nifrigel - sorry I made a mistake there in my calculation.

The CA79/CA99 keys are about 53/54 grams at A0 - so the CLP-785 is up to 40% heavier, not 20%. I.e. it is very noticeable.
Hi, Burkey, thanks for the information! Do you by any chance also have the key weight data on Roland keyboards for reference?

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Originally Posted by Nifrigel
Originally Posted by Burkey
Hi Nifrigel - sorry I made a mistake there in my calculation.

The CA79/CA99 keys are about 53/54 grams at A0 - so the CLP-785 is up to 40% heavier, not 20%. I.e. it is very noticeable.
Hi, Burkey, thanks for the information! Do you by any chance also have the key weight data on Roland keyboards for reference?
From memory the best Roland action (Hybrid Grand in the LX706 & LX708) is about 62 grams (A0) to about 50 grams (C8) - i.e. about 15% heavier than the Kawai CA79/CA99, about the same as the Yamaha CLP-745, and much lighter than the Yamaha CLP-785.

The main problem with the Hybrid Grand action (and Roland actions in general) is they don't use linear weight grading. I.e. from A0 to about C3 - the keys are all pretty much the same weight. And that means all heavy! I have noticed that the good Kawai and Yamaha models do not suffer from this major flaw. The acoustics I have measured are also weighted linearly.

Last edited by Burkey; 10/04/20 09:25 AM.

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So I'm also still deciding (it's been a week now) between CA99 and CLP785...

My situation is the following:
- I already have acoustic 76' Yamaha UX upright
- want to go digital to practice at night, early morning....
- the ONLY piano I can try at the store is clp785
- CLP785 would be 4300eur satin black, 4800eur PE and 5000eur for the glossy white one + I get free chair and a decent headphones - delivery 2 weeks and free asambly included. I would have store support / service readily available in case of issues
- CA99; I could only get it from Thomann.de for 4555eur (PE versionI + I get free chair and a decent headphones) - delivery 3-5 weeks
- I play some fast stuff with repetitions (e.g. Chopin) and I am really struggling with my acoustic UX due to heavy action (pressing una corda pedal helps, but the right side of my back still hurts after practicing fantasie impromptu:(

I wanted CA99 initially due to GFIII and interesting soundboard concept.
After reading many complaints about CA99 about quality issues I'm afraid I would have to deal with returns, servicies etc.
The 785 on the other side is really new model with spruce speakers and VRM concept to simulate the same thing CA99 achieves with soundboard.

I've read some good things about clp785 action being improved regarding the heavey touch from 600 series...can someone who actually played the clp785 confirm this?
CA99 has supposedly the best DP action with balance pins.

Both have full wooden keys (at least white ones are 100% on the yamaha), pivot on the Yamaha is 1cm more (25cm vs 24cm) which is a good thing in terms of control. Both have individually graded - weighted keys (which is something not found on e.g. Roland I think..)
The sound seems very good on both but I trust Yamaha more than Kawai not to have any of the reported quality issues...(buzzing, rattling, key clicking).
I've also read that some users find Kawai CA79/99 cheap in terms of the construction of the cabinet (talking about non EP versions, EP seems to be better, look better).

One other plus with Yamaha is binaural cfx and Bösie sampling - is this only related to headphone experience or also reflects through cabinet speakers?

CA99 has a cool display but clp785 has piano dote sounds smile
It also has 16 track recorder available within the app (not with CA99).

What do you guys think, which one should I go for? smile

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@Thelycandraven: Most of your post references specs and marketing claims, and none of it references an attempt to actually try the pianos.

I find specs to be nearly worthless, and I find that trying the pianos to be the end-all, most important part of choosing a piano.

So ignore the soundboards and the spruce speakers.
Ignore the VRM and the balance pins.
Ignore the tail fins, too!

You're an experienced pianist, so just try the pianos and judge for yourself. Your own opinion is the ONLY ONE that matters, right?

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Originally Posted by Thelycandraven
So I'm also still deciding (it's been a week now) between CA99 and CLP785...

My situation is the following:
- I already have acoustic 76' Yamaha UX upright
- want to go digital to practice at night, early morning....
- the ONLY piano I can try at the store is clp785
- CLP785 would be 4300eur satin black, 4800eur PE and 5000eur for the glossy white one + I get free chair and a decent headphones - delivery 2 weeks and free asambly included. I would have store support / service readily available in case of issues
- CA99; I could only get it from Thomann.de for 4555eur (PE versionI + I get free chair and a decent headphones) - delivery 3-5 weeks
- I play some fast stuff with repetitions (e.g. Chopin) and I am really struggling with my acoustic UX due to heavy action (pressing una corda pedal helps, but the right side of my back still hurts after practicing fantasie impromptu:(

I wanted CA99 initially due to GFIII and interesting soundboard concept.
After reading many complaints about CA99 about quality issues I'm afraid I would have to deal with returns, servicies etc.
The 785 on the other side is really new model with spruce speakers and VRM concept to simulate the same thing CA99 achieves with soundboard.

I've read some good things about clp785 action being improved regarding the heavey touch from 600 series...can someone who actually played the clp785 confirm this?
CA99 has supposedly the best DP action with balance pins.

Both have full wooden keys (at least white ones are 100% on the yamaha), pivot on the Yamaha is 1cm more (25cm vs 24cm) which is a good thing in terms of control. Both have individually graded - weighted keys (which is something not found on e.g. Roland I think..)
The sound seems very good on both but I trust Yamaha more than Kawai not to have any of the reported quality issues...(buzzing, rattling, key clicking).
I've also read that some users find Kawai CA79/99 cheap in terms of the construction of the cabinet (talking about non EP versions, EP seems to be better, look better).

One other plus with Yamaha is binaural cfx and Bösie sampling - is this only related to headphone experience or also reflects through cabinet speakers?

CA99 has a cool display but clp785 has piano dote sounds smile
It also has 16 track recorder available within the app (not with CA99).

What do you guys think, which one should I go for? smile

Hey 😀,
Just to clear something up:
All today's manufacturers barring Roland and Physis use sampling plus resonance modelling. The manufacturers just use different jargon for the same thing. Yamaha use VRM (Virtual Resonance Modelling), Kawai use advanced resonance algorithms for that.

For sampling, Yamaha have binaural sampling, and Kawai have instead SK-EX Rendering which utilises multi-channel sampling to capture the sound from different points of the Shigeru Kawai concert grand piano.

Kawai Ca99 has a Real Soundboard:
Quote
In addition to conventional speakers, the flagship CA99 also incorporates Kawai’s latest TwinDrive soundboard speaker system. This unique acoustic projection technology harnesses transducer components to channel sound energy onto a real wooden soundboard, resulting in an even richer, more organic piano tone that faithfully reproduces the ambience of an acoustic piano.

I'm not aware of a similar system on the CLP785, but the amplification on the Yamaha is pretty good anyway.

Also, the Kawai pivot point is like an acoustic action''s, whereas, the Yamaha pivot is at the end of the key. This may explain why the action is less realistic.

Last edited by Doug M.; 01/03/21 02:13 PM.

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When trying a CA97 and a CLP685 (some time ago), I didn’t feel much difference, then, a fulcrum at the end of the key or at the middle doesn’t matter. It is just MY feeling with the previous generation of DP.

The CLP785 has some spruce speakers. Mini soundboards ?

Last edited by Frédéric L; 01/03/21 02:35 PM.

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Do we know the Pivot on the 785 is 1 cm more vs ca99 ? The diagram makes it look like 30cm.

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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
The CLP785 has some spruce speakers. Mini soundboards ?

More like mini-snake-oils.

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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Do we know the Pivot on the 785 is 1 cm more vs ca99 ? The diagram makes it look like 30cm.
I think I've read the exact 24cm vs 25cm on the forum but I can't remember where exactly...

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Originally Posted by Thelycandraven
Originally Posted by jeffcat
Do we know the Pivot on the 785 is 1 cm more vs ca99 ? The diagram makes it look like 30cm.
I think I've read the exact 24cm vs 25cm on the forum but I can't remember where exactly...
Also Yamaha itself claims to have the longest pivot in the industry:) oh sweet marketing:P

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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
The CLP785 has some spruce speakers. Mini soundboards ?

More like mini-snake-oils.
Lol could be or not:) I think it is a nice move to counter CA99 soundboard though. I believe that good speakers make a difference. Spruce membrane should emulate soundboard in terms if resonance..

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
@Thelycandraven: Most of your post references specs and marketing claims, and none of it references an attempt to actually try the pianos.

I find specs to be nearly worthless, and I find that trying the pianos to be the end-all, most important part of choosing a piano.

So ignore the soundboards and the spruce speakers.
Ignore the VRM and the balance pins.
Ignore the tail fins, too!

You're an experienced pianist, so just try the pianos and judge for yourself. Your own opinion is the ONLY ONE that matters, right?
Yes, I agree..but as I said, I only have the option to try the clp785:( 1:1 comparison eith Kawai will not be possible in my small country. So I have to rely on specs and on oppinion of other people who actually were able to play both..
Yes, I get the marketing..

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Originally Posted by Thelycandraven
- the ONLY piano I can try at the store is clp785

This makes the decision easy. Go try CLP785 at the store and if you like it, buy it. Do not buy CA-99 without trying it and knowing how the action/sound feels to you.

All other considerations (features that you listed) are secondary.

Osho


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Originally Posted by Thelycandraven
Yes, I agree..but as I said, I only have the option to try the clp785:( 1:1 comparison eith Kawai will not be possible in my small country. So I have to rely on specs and on oppinion of other people who actually were able to play both..
Yes, I get the marketing..
So try it.

You might love it. Then buy it and move on. Otherwise it'll give you a base of hands on knowledge of what you do or don't like.

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Originally Posted by Thelycandraven
I've read some good things about clp785 action being improved regarding the heavey touch from 600 series...can someone who actually played the clp785 confirm this?
Yes, I've played and measured two separate 785 instruments - the 785 action is lighter and more realistic than the 685 action.

Last edited by Burkey; 01/03/21 10:30 PM.

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Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Thelycandraven
I've read some good things about clp785 action being improved regarding the heavey touch from 600 series...can someone who actually played the clp785 confirm this?
Yes, I've played and measured two separate 785 instruments - the 785 action is lighter and more realistic than the 685 action.

Did you play something fast on it, how is it in terms of practice fatigue vs the GF3

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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Thelycandraven
I've read some good things about clp785 action being improved regarding the heavey touch from 600 series...can someone who actually played the clp785 confirm this?
Yes, I've played and measured two separate 785 instruments - the 785 action is lighter and more realistic than the 685 action.

Did you play something fast on it, how is it in terms of practice fatigue vs the GF3
@ Burkey - I'm also very interested in this!:)
So I got the corona region pass from the store and I will go and try 785 this week hopefully:)
They used to also sell Kawai but now they only sell yamaha unfortunately..
But anyway, I'll try as much as I can from 700 and 600 series and share my thoughts with you guys:)
785 is really expensive especially if you want gloss white one that I really like...the price difference between satin black and gloss white is 700eur!
(PE being 500eur more expensive than the standard black one)

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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Thelycandraven
I've read some good things about clp785 action being improved regarding the heavey touch from 600 series...can someone who actually played the clp785 confirm this?
Yes, I've played and measured two separate 785 instruments - the 785 action is lighter and more realistic than the 685 action.

Did you play something fast on it, how is it in terms of practice fatigue vs the GF3
I usually try these two:
Flight of the bumblebee (Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov)
Prelude (Billy Joel)

So I didn't notice any fatigue from those.

Last edited by Burkey; 01/04/21 10:34 AM.

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Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by jeffcat
Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Thelycandraven
I've read some good things about clp785 action being improved regarding the heavey touch from 600 series...can someone who actually played the clp785 confirm this?
Yes, I've played and measured two separate 785 instruments - the 785 action is lighter and more realistic than the 685 action.

Did you play something fast on it, how is it in terms of practice fatigue vs the GF3
I usually try these two:
Flight of the bumblebee (Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov)
Prelude (Billy Joel)

So I didn't notice any fatigue from those.
Perfect!! smile

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@Thelycandraven did you get to try the Yamaha? I'm also hesitant between the Yamaha CLP 785 and Kawai CA99, but due to Covid I can't try either of these instruments (probably won't be able to at least until end of February).

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If you're going to use some VSTs such as PTQ in the future, I definitely recommend CA99.
Modeling sound will allow the soundboard speaker to be more active and realize its potential.
The piano with the soundboard is a real living instrument, not a player or Stereo.
You can sense yourself playing with your fingers, your pedaling foot and your body.

Of course, if you only use the bulit-in sound, the choice between them is only a matter of personal taste and brand preference.


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Originally Posted by Burduja
@Thelycandraven did you get to try the Yamaha? I'm also hesitant between the Yamaha CLP 785 and Kawai CA99, but due to Covid I can't try either of these instruments (probably won't be able to at least until end of February).
Yes. I tryed CLP785. I was very dissapointed:( I wanted to love it so much, after 1 hour of playing I decided very clearly to leave the shop without a piano and head on a long and and sad way back home. The sound and touch did not meet my expectations coming from acoustic 76' Yamaha UX upright..
Could be due to the fact that I perhaps expected acoustic sound and feel from a digital instrument.
It is not..not even close. Also tryed it with 2 different headphones since I've read a lot of good stuff about binaural sampling. Sorry, but with my 130eur ATH-M50X studio headphones it was so bad that I honestly checked the jack several times to make sure there was not a connection issue..with 250eur Sennheiser phones they own at the shop it was a bit better.
There was absolutely no doubt in my mind about spending near 5k eur on a DP which did not only "not blow me away" but was actually not a good acoustic simulation.
I can not say if it is "good" in the world of DPs and how it compares to others like CA99, I mostly played CLP785 in the shop and very quickly some other ones...
Again, I could have too high expectations and thought I would not even notice a difference between acoustic and CLP785 - this is not the case...there is unfortunately a world of difference.
If you are used to play DPs than perhaps you would like it...but absolutely TRY IT BEFORE BUYING!! I would totally screw myself up if I simply ordered it and realise at home it is not what I expected.

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It would’ve been interesting for you to have compared the 785 against the hybrids (N1X, NU1X, etc), for some perspective. Perhaps their would not have been ‘a world of difference’ between the N1X and your acoustic?

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Originally Posted by Pete14
It would’ve been interesting for you to have compared the 785 against the hybrids (N1X, NU1X, etc), for some perspective. Perhaps their would not have been ‘a world of difference’ between the N1X and your acoustic?

FWIW, I own a NV10 and have tried AVantGrand N1 before (not N1X) - there is 'a world of difference' between their sound and a good AP sound.

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I can assure you there is ‘a world of difference’ between the N1 and the N1X.

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I recently tried the LX-708, Dexibell H10, GP-510, CA99 and CLP-785 and ended up buying the 785. It's subjective, the point is to try them out and find what suits you best (waited best part of a year to try them). To be fair the CA99 was a very close second and I would have been more than happy to have had this if the 785 didn't exist. The deciding factor was the action, in that I felt a better connection with the piano. The 99 felt a bit too light, but that's just me and what suits me. Other than that there was very little to separate them. The sound on the 99 is great with the soundboard. However most of my playing is through headphones and I felt this experience was better on the 785

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I have spent some time trying the whole CLP-700 series and CA59, 79 and 99.
In my opinion, the best ones are CLP 745, CLP 785, CA 79 and CA 99. I have to say I like all of them. At the end I bought CLP785 simply because it is the fastest delivery. Kawai seems to have a huge delay in production.

Below some thoughts on these four models.
I find CLP 785 indeed has the heaviest key action. But many discussions seem to overlook the fact that one could tune the key action via the Piano Room function. I still find the default key action "medium" a bit too stiff, but I find the action improved a lot after changing it to "soft 1" mode. The CA79 and CA99 are very close to the Steinway and Yamaha grand pianos I have played. I really love them, but I could not bear the undefined delivery date. I find CLP 745 has similar key action to CA79&99, despite the "plastic" feeling. The downside, in my opinion, is the speaker. The audio from CLP 745 simply cannot compete with CLP785/CA79/CA99 when you play it without headphones.

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Originally Posted by lazyyyzz
I find CLP 745 has similar key action to CA79&99

Is 745 heavier or lighter.

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The Clavinovas are heavy. The Avant Grands are not.
The CA series pianos seemed heavier that a proper grand piano, but lighter than the Clavs.

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Originally Posted by EinLudov
Originally Posted by lazyyyzz
I find CLP 745 has similar key action to CA79&99

Is 745 heavier or lighter.

I did not go into detailed comparison, I just find them very similar and lighter than CLP 785.

This is how I ranked some of the pianos I tried:

CA59 <<< CLP745 / CA79 / CA99 < CLP 785 << CLP 775

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The Clavinovas are heavy. The Avant Grands are not.
The CA series pianos seemed heavier that a proper grand piano, but lighter than the Clavs.

I find the latest are somewhat lighter than the previous ^00 series, Mac. The 725 through to 745 were very good; the 785 also was not heavy but had a little more inertia to it. Compared to the baby grand next to them, they were lighter. I wouldn't like them any lighter than they are now. Try 'em without switching stuff on. It's the best way.


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Originally Posted by lazyyyzz
I
I find CLP 785 indeed has the heaviest key action. But many discussions seem to overlook the fact that one could tune the key action via the Piano Room function. I still find the default key action "medium" a bit too stiff, but I find the action improved a lot after changing it to "soft 1" mode.

I've made exactly the same experience with my 785. In general some of the default settings of the CLPs are pretty bad. I even changed the action to "soft 2" and decreased ta little bit the reverb value as playing pp gets more difficult compared to the heavier settings. I think soft 1 and soft 2 are the usable settings. When testing these action settings every change requires some time to get used to it.

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I can help, We returned CA-99 and traded up to NV-5 and returned that.

The soundboard transducer implementation is flawed and produces a terrible buzz and/or distortion.

The whole reason we wanted the piano is the reason it had to be returned. Sure they can tune that out with firmware updates but it kills the tone.

They fix it incrementally each firmware patch trying to balance soundboard buzz against a dead sounding piano. Was it supply chain problems with certain components so that it only occurs in some pianos? That's my theory.

YOU NEED TO PASS ON THIS GENERATION KAWAI DP.

If you just absolutely MUST have this piano have a friend put their ear down by the soundboard near the lower register transducer and play single notes and simple chords in the second to the lowest octaves before you take it home. You are listening for a buzz that changes when you place your hand on the soundboard in the same area.

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you have to place your hand over the soundboard to trigger the sound? Wow its a good thing neither the player or listener does not typically do that whilst you play piano

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Originally Posted by InspiredByKawai
you have to place your hand over the soundboard to trigger the sound? Wow its a good thing neither the player or listener does not typically do that whilst you play piano

I don’t know about you, but I always have one hand on the keys and the other on the soundboard.

What’s the point of having a soundboard if you’re not going to touch it whilst you play?

No offense, but it seems like you might be in the minority here!

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Originally Posted by InspiredByKawai
you have to place your hand over the soundboard to trigger the sound? Wow its a good thing neither the player or listener does not typically do that whilst you play piano

That would be a trivial problem that would not merit returning two pianos.

What would merit a return is a piano that buzzed while playing and when you pushed on the soundboard the buzz diminished slightly for as long as you held your hand there and then returned to the baseline buzz after removing your hand.

The buzz would not be affected by changing amplifiers and crossovers that were sent by Kawai to a authorized technician.

The buzz would get better if you repeatedly uploaded firmware that dampened the sound in those registers. The buzz MIGHT go away if you went into virtual piano technician and spent hours tuning the piano, of course on the next firmware update you would have to spend another few hours compensating for flaws in the design or the out of spec components on that specific piano.

That kind of buzz would not be trivial and might be the kind of thing that would get a piano replaced with a brand that has a better reputation for working out of the box.

I appreciate your devotion to the brand but your dismissal of my very real experience is not helping anyone who literally asked for help in selecting a piano.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by InspiredByKawai
you have to place your hand over the soundboard to trigger the sound? Wow its a good thing neither the player or listener does not typically do that whilst you play piano

I don’t know about you, but I always have one hand on the keys and the other on the soundboard.

What’s the point of having a soundboard if you’re not going to touch it whilst you play?

No offense, but it seems like you might be in the minority here!

How insulting. Obviously the buzz is there while playing and changes character when the soundboard is touched, thereby identifying the soundboard as the source of the buzz.

I must be in the minority since I am not a fanboy that dismisses others real world experiences with a problem. I bought the NV-5 on trade-up cause we wanted a Kawai soundboard tech DP. Had to return that too.

He asked for help, and your answer is to dismiss someone's real world experience. So are you helping him or just flexing some kind of brand loyalty bias for who knows what reason?

What do you own by the way? If it's a CA-99 with no problems then I am jealous, cause that's all we wanted.

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I was challenging what seemed like another complaint about sound-sample buzz that when I listen to is non existent. The buzzing is just the metallic sympathetic resonance sampling.

If the problem is with cabinet/speaker/soundboard buzzing nine times out of ten, is a loose screw inside the piano that a technician can easily address based on reading other users experiences.

I don't have a Ca99 yet, it's on back order from January. As convenient as it might be to assume I'm a Kawai fan boy that's not actually the case. But the username is true in that kawai's digitally rendered tone inspires me.

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Originally Posted by InspiredByKawai
I was challenging what I thought seemed like another complaint about sound-sample buzz that when I listen to is non existent. The buzzing is just the metallic sympathetic resonance sampling.

If the problem is with cabinet/speaker/soundboard buzzing nine times out of ten, is a loose screw inside the piano that a technician can easily address based on reading other users experiences.

I don't have a Ca99 yet, it's on back order from January. As simple as it might be to assume I'm a Kawai fan boy that's not actually the case. But the username is true in that kawai's digitally rendered tone inspires me.

Fair enough. I did consider that it could simply be the way it is sampled. My wife couldn't stand it, and my surprise birthday present turned into a $2500 upgrade with the same problem on the NV-5, and ultimately a return.

I hope you love your piano! Good luck.

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Did you at all watch videos that were recorded from direct line out before committing to purchasing? Then you could ascertain if there were noticeable caveats of the sound to your ear

Last edited by InspiredByKawai; 04/25/21 09:04 PM.
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by sam777
Hello!

I ask for your help in choosing CLP 785 and CA99.
I read on the forum that the owners of KAWAI CA99 have many problems with their DP. For example white noise. Before I read about the problems, I had a great desire to buy exactly CA99.
As far as I understand, instead of a wooden deck, the Yamaha uses a vibro-speaker.
Sound and keyboard are very important to me. As well as reliability and durability. I don’t want to be disappointed because I want to buy for many years.

Hi Sam,

My advice is to go to a store and try out all the models in that price range to get a feel for the competition yourself.

I'm not going to contradict what anyone has said, but often, individual experiences of issues aren't so representative, also, the subjective opinions are not necessarily valid to your ears.

...

Kind regards,
Doug

Truer words have not been spoken. Unfortunately current inventory shortages do not allow this. You will be lucky to find your first choice model in stock, much less comparable models from other lines or other brands.

It is a matter of buying sight unseen and hoping for the best, or waiting an indeterminant amount of time until this situation normalizes.

But, since people keep buying pianos that they have never seen I think it is entirely possible that the manufacturers will be in no rush to restock display models at dealers. If people buy JIT inventory pianos on a 12 to 16 week backlog, then why would Yamaha produce "excess" inventory that has to be discounted when there are product model updates?

It's a different world and I think we must adapt?

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Now is not the time to try buying.
1. No inventory.
2. No hope of near-term delivery.
3. Seller's market means higher prices.
In baseball, 1 - 2 - 3 strikes and yer out.

My response to this is to ignore the piano market.
I was planning to shop for an N1X. That plan has been scuttled. No piano for me in 2021.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
My response to this is to ignore the piano market.

I am leaning toward doing this with almost all markets for the time being - housing, car, piano, vacation, etc.

I'll keep renting an apartment, driving my old car, playing my old Clavinova, and not going on trips. Goal is to save money for a few years and hope that things look better in 2025.

By that time my piano will be 18 years old, so I can kick it out of the house and get something new.

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So I can't speak to the sound problem in the CA-99 but i can repost my last post in the NV-5 thread:

Originally Posted by msromike
In the spirit of fairness. After the piano was returned for refund, it was determined to be a loose power supply and not some inherent design flaw as I first suspected. Unfortunately, my wife decided not to repurchase the same unit. But I have to give credit to Kawai and the dealer for accepting the piano back for a refund, which as you know is not widely done in the industry.

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I actually owned both. Previously the CA99 and now the CLP 785. Personally, I liked the action on the Kawai a tad better, as it felt "lighter" to play. Also the low notes sounded really cool. HOWEVER (and that is a big however), I would never buy a Kawai again. The speakers just sounded complete garbage. There was a hissing/rattling sound in it, which made it impossible to play. Also, the touchscreen is absolute garbage (super unresponsive) and the software did not event start-up from time to time. As many already stated before, these problems are not new to Kawai and have already existed on the previous models. My dealer also told me, that they had many Kawais returned because of these issues. Kawai not addressing these issues properly and basically shipping out faulty products is absolutely unacceptable for me.
Therefore; i returned the Kawai CA99 and ordered a Yamaha CLP785.
Really, I could not be happier with the purchase. I previously mentioned, that I liked the action of the Kawai a bit more. In everything else though, the CLP 785 surpasses the Kawai in my opinion. The speakers sound much better than the Kawai, the touchscreen is super smooth and responsive and the samples are really great. Looks ofc is fairly subjective. I think both the Kawai CA99 and the CLP 785 look great.
So yeah, without a doubt, I would recommend the Yamaha.

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Originally Posted by Swisspokerboy
I actually owned both. Previously the CA99 and now the CLP 785. Personally, I liked the action on the Kawai a tad better, as it felt "lighter" to play. Also the low notes sounded really cool. HOWEVER (and that is a big however), I would never buy a Kawai again. The speakers just sounded complete garbage. There was a hissing/rattling sound in it, which made it impossible to play. Also, the touchscreen is absolute garbage (super unresponsive) and the software did not event start-up from time to time. As many already stated before, these problems are not new to Kawai and have already existed on the previous models. My dealer also told me, that they had many Kawais returned because of these issues. Kawai not addressing these issues properly and basically shipping out faulty products is absolutely unacceptable for me.
Therefore; i returned the Kawai CA99 and ordered a Yamaha CLP785.
Really, I could not be happier with the purchase. I previously mentioned, that I liked the action of the Kawai a bit more. In everything else though, the CLP 785 surpasses the Kawai in my opinion. The speakers sound much better than the Kawai, the touchscreen is super smooth and responsive and the samples are really great. Looks ofc is fairly subjective. I think both the Kawai CA99 and the CLP 785 look great.
So yeah, without a doubt, I would recommend the Yamaha.

Exactly.

I spent £3200 on my CA99, its had issues from day 1, heavy key, squeeky keys, kawai are not interested and nor was the shop I bought it at really, any issues just get forwarded to kawai... If you're not ignored for months you're lucky and if anyone comes out they say it's normal or can't do anything about it lol, scandalous! And yes they clearly ship out products that are faulty and somehow get away with it.

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Originally Posted by msromike
Obviously the buzz is there while playing and changes character when the soundboard is touched, thereby identifying the soundboard as the source of the buzz.
No - the soundboard could be rattling some other part (very likely).
The soundboard itself may not be (is most likely not) the source of the problem.

I think I was the very first person to report here the buzzing issue with a CA99 last March (2020) - it is rather disturbing to see the problem hasn't yet been resolved after 14 months.

Last edited by Burkey; 05/06/21 09:28 PM.

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Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by msromike
Obviously the buzz is there while playing and changes character when the soundboard is touched, thereby identifying the soundboard as the source of the buzz.
No - the soundboard could be rattling some other part (very likely).
The soundboard itself may not be (is most likely not) the source of the problem.

As msromike notes in his follow-up post:

Originally Posted by msromike
In the spirit of fairness. After the piano was returned for refund, it was determined to be a loose power supply and not some inherent design flaw as I first suspected.

I gather that after the dealer tightened the screws on the power supply, the buzzing problem was resolved.

Kind regards,
James
x


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Yes, that’s what it was, ‘the power supply was loose’.

I previously quoted him as saying it was the ‘power brick’, and though common sense would dictate that what matters is that something was loose and that it was not an ‘inherent design flaw’ as initially suggested, sometimes it seems like common sense doesn’t prevail ‘round here and one need always be very literal and ‘serious’.

Yes, the possibility of a ‘beehive’ was never meant literally, but I was using it as a euphemism for there being something there other than a ‘design flaw’ causing the buzz!

I wonder what is considered nonsense, someone coming here to bash and recommend against a *beautiful* instrument without first confirming the source of the problem (he initially bashed and then redacted), or someone confronting him directly (before the redaction)?

*beautiful* does not simply refer to the instrument’s aesthetics but also to the elegant yet functional design. It was previously assumed that I used the word in its most basic sense, but it turns out that beautiful is a much loaded word!

I could go on-and-on explaining myself but at some point these millennials need to understand that it’s not just right or wrong, black or white, good or bad, etc.., and that words mean nothing until they’ve accomplished something, and based on the recent turn of events (not a design flaw) it seems like those people piling up on the buzz were wrong and Pete was freaking right!


So, I ask, who is really speaking nonsense?

Essbrace, I can hear you typing a response already, but don’t even bother (it’s rhetorical, the question). grin

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Originally Posted by Pete14
So, I ask, who is really speaking nonsense?

Essbrace, I can hear you typing a response already, but don’t even bother (it’s rhetorical, the question). grin

Ha! I am typing so eagerly there's smoke pouring out of my laptop keys. It's a good job the repetition speed of my Macbook's keys is better than a scabby old N1X. I'm almost equaling NV10 quickness here.

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