Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Help me choose between YAMAHA CLP 785 and KAWAI CA99.

Yes: that is precisely what I intended

At the point in time 1 decade ago, in 2010 - which means at that time the only models in existence were those released before that point in time.

Hi Nifrigel - sorry I made a mistake there in my calculation.

The CA79/CA99 keys are about 53/54 grams at A0 - so the CLP-785 is up to 40% heavier, not 20%. I.e. it is very noticeable.

No - 'a decade ago' means the point in time 1 decade ago, i.e. as of 2010. Please go and research it if you don't believe me.

Woow, that's a lot.

I think you've gotten the words 'quality' and 'reliability' mixed up.

If you mean quality, Yamaha, Kawai and Roland along with most of the major manufacturers (Nord, Kurzeil,Korg, Casio etc) all make high quality products.

Yamaha and Kawai make the most realistic instruments (action wise), then Casio, then Roland (discounting v. expensive and exclusive models not generally accessible).

I would not worship Yamaha, as they have no objective claim to be better than their competitors, except perhaps at amplification (which Kawai are catching up).

You're right that they all do. Yet, no brand can be free of product defects. Personally, I received my Yamaha N1X which came with a defective pedal unit as well, and I believe there were some who received theirs with a broken fallboard hinge. But if you put these aside, their products generally have a great build quality, nice touch and finish to them, and like you said, amazing amplification which is arguably one of the best in the business.

Hi, Burkey, thanks for the information! Do you by any chance also have the key weight data on Roland keyboards for reference?

From memory the best Roland action (Hybrid Grand in the LX706 & LX708) is about 62 grams (A0) to about 50 grams (C8) - i.e. about 15% heavier than the Kawai CA79/CA99, about the same as the Yamaha CLP-745, and much lighter than the Yamaha CLP-785.

The main problem with the Hybrid Grand action (and Roland actions in general) is they don't use linear weight grading. I.e. from A0 to about C3 - the keys are all pretty much the same weight. And that means all heavy! I have noticed that the good Kawai and Yamaha models do not suffer from this major flaw. The acoustics I have measured are also weighted linearly.

So I'm also still deciding (it's been a week now) between CA99 and CLP785...

My situation is the following:
- I already have acoustic 76' Yamaha UX upright
- want to go digital to practice at night, early morning....
- the ONLY piano I can try at the store is clp785
- CLP785 would be 4300eur satin black, 4800eur PE and 5000eur for the glossy white one + I get free chair and a decent headphones - delivery 2 weeks and free asambly included. I would have store support / service readily available in case of issues
- CA99; I could only get it from Thomann.de for 4555eur (PE versionI + I get free chair and a decent headphones) - delivery 3-5 weeks
- I play some fast stuff with repetitions (e.g. Chopin) and I am really struggling with my acoustic UX due to heavy action (pressing una corda pedal helps, but the right side of my back still hurts after practicing fantasie impromptu:(

I wanted CA99 initially due to GFIII and interesting soundboard concept.
After reading many complaints about CA99 about quality issues I'm afraid I would have to deal with returns, servicies etc.
The 785 on the other side is really new model with spruce speakers and VRM concept to simulate the same thing CA99 achieves with soundboard.

I've read some good things about clp785 action being improved regarding the heavey touch from 600 series...can someone who actually played the clp785 confirm this?
CA99 has supposedly the best DP action with balance pins.

Both have full wooden keys (at least white ones are 100% on the yamaha), pivot on the Yamaha is 1cm more (25cm vs 24cm) which is a good thing in terms of control. Both have individually graded - weighted keys (which is something not found on e.g. Roland I think..)
The sound seems very good on both but I trust Yamaha more than Kawai not to have any of the reported quality issues...(buzzing, rattling, key clicking).
I've also read that some users find Kawai CA79/99 cheap in terms of the construction of the cabinet (talking about non EP versions, EP seems to be better, look better).

One other plus with Yamaha is binaural cfx and Bösie sampling - is this only related to headphone experience or also reflects through cabinet speakers?

CA99 has a cool display but clp785 has piano dote sounds
It also has 16 track recorder available within the app (not with CA99).

What do you guys think, which one should I go for?

@Thelycandraven: Most of your post references specs and marketing claims, and none of it references an attempt to actually try the pianos.

I find specs to be nearly worthless, and I find that trying the pianos to be the end-all, most important part of choosing a piano.

So ignore the soundboards and the spruce speakers.
Ignore the VRM and the balance pins.
Ignore the tail fins, too!

You're an experienced pianist, so just try the pianos and judge for yourself. Your own opinion is the ONLY ONE that matters, right?

Hey 😀,
Just to clear something up:
All today's manufacturers barring Roland and Physis use sampling plus resonance modelling. The manufacturers just use different jargon for the same thing. Yamaha use VRM (Virtual Resonance Modelling), Kawai use advanced resonance algorithms for that.

For sampling, Yamaha have binaural sampling, and Kawai have instead SK-EX Rendering which utilises multi-channel sampling to capture the sound from different points of the Shigeru Kawai concert grand piano.

Kawai Ca99 has a Real Soundboard:

I'm not aware of a similar system on the CLP785, but the amplification on the Yamaha is pretty good anyway.

Also, the Kawai pivot point is like an acoustic action''s, whereas, the Yamaha pivot is at the end of the key. This may explain why the action is less realistic.

When trying a CA97 and a CLP685 (some time ago), I didn’t feel much difference, then, a fulcrum at the end of the key or at the middle doesn’t matter. It is just MY feeling with the previous generation of DP.

The CLP785 has some spruce speakers. Mini soundboards ?

Do we know the Pivot on the 785 is 1 cm more vs ca99 ? The diagram makes it look like 30cm.

More like mini-snake-oils.

I think I've read the exact 24cm vs 25cm on the forum but I can't remember where exactly...

Also Yamaha itself claims to have the longest pivot in the industry:) oh sweet marketing:P

Lol could be or not:) I think it is a nice move to counter CA99 soundboard though. I believe that good speakers make a difference. Spruce membrane should emulate soundboard in terms if resonance..

Yes, I agree..but as I said, I only have the option to try the clp785:( 1:1 comparison eith Kawai will not be possible in my small country. So I have to rely on specs and on oppinion of other people who actually were able to play both..
Yes, I get the marketing..

This makes the decision easy. Go try CLP785 at the store and if you like it, buy it. Do not buy CA-99 without trying it and knowing how the action/sound feels to you.

All other considerations (features that you listed) are secondary.

Osho