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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
That's good to know because in the picture on this page

https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamah...ruments/pianos/avantgrand/n1x/specs.html

it looks like the music desk is sitting on the top the case, no?

Imagine a long tail in the back of that "case" and you see that's the same geometry of a grand piano music desk. I think you are imagining the instrument like a 54"+ tall upright, whereas that's tall just as a normal grand. Check the picture #3 of the site you linked, where there's a (probaly pretend) pianist and see what the height of the desk is.

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What matters is the height of the music desk above the floor (or above the keys).

The top of the case is not important. My upright in that picture was 50" tall ... taller than any digital.

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Originally Posted by Del Vento
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
That's good to know because in the picture on this page

https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamah...ruments/pianos/avantgrand/n1x/specs.html

it looks like the music desk is sitting on the top the case, no?

Imagine a long tail in the back of that "case" and you see that's the same geometry of a grand piano music desk. I think you are imagining the instrument like a 54"+ tall upright, whereas that's tall just as a normal grand. Check the picture #3 of the site you linked, where there's a (probaly pretend) pianist and see what the height of the desk is.
From what I can see the third picture doesn't show the music desk in the upright position.

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I just got this info from a N1x dealer. I was "half right"haha. The dealer said:

"The N1x without the music desk is 38 1/2” high. The desk sits on top bringing it to 46”. This is only slightly higher if at all than most grand pianos. Uprights vary but are usually lower."

Bottom line is that the height of the desk should be no problem.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 11/03/20 07:42 PM.
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Just got back from a shop comparing nv10 and n1x literally side by side in same hybrid room. Also tried the NV5 which bizarrely is probably the best sounding instrument when played on live out of any of the grand hybrids, however why anyone would specifically want an upright action is beyond me so it's not in the equation.

Second time ive played N1X, and the samples are pretty great to be honest. It's just severely let down by the speaker system in my opinion, i can't physically stand the poor quality of it, its like its bordering on distorting. The sound is far too harsh. The action is also basically just the entry level GBK1 grand they make so nothing special, it's stiff and fairly heavy, but also responsive and fast regardless, it's an ok action.

Jumped on nv10 and not impressed with speaker system either, it's more boxy but less harsh and in your face than the yamaha. It's mildly better than the n1x overall, samples wise on the nv10, not bad, different to yamaha, probably not quite as 'good' but they are still rich sounding and ideal for classical piano mainly.

Anyway I've decided on the nv10 simply because I can't stop wanting to play on its sublime action... I'll run a vst through it like garritan if i want a different sound anyway. I don't think you can get a better action on a piano unless you spend more towards £20,000, it surpasses most grands I've played on costing alot more. Its fast, handles repeated notes far better than anything else, especially the n1x or n3x, which I think share same action anyway, it's effortless and your hands glide over the keys like clouds of silk...Kawai should be applauded for making this action in my opinion. I can be as expressive as i like on it, beautifully balanced weighting overall.

The speaker system will do, the sampling will do, the action has won me over completely...its astonishingly good.

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I concur with mwf: I had 2 hours alone in the Bonners Hybrid piano test room with the NV10, NV5, N1X, NU1X doing side-by-side comparisons.

I’m a big Yamaha fan having enjoyed their pianos since my first CVP Clavinova in 1989, and now looking to upgrade my P515. Based on YouTube reviews I was expecting the N1X to closely match the NV10. But heck no. The Kawai’s touch was light years ahead. I knew practically instantly that NV10 was the one. Yamaha really need to pull their finger out when they refresh the Avant Grands.

The NV5 sounds great but the upright action was no match for the silky smooth beautifully balanced NV10 action. I placed an order but delivery is not expected until January. Will be worth the wait.

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I just got back from bonners yeah, about an hours drive from me but well worth the trips I've made, and the staff are brilliant, they just leave me alone for 4 hours each time i go in lol, they know my level is advanced and i know all about dps and pianos so they don't interfere, good guys there.

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Interesting you preferred the NV-5 sound wise, and it seems you’re not alone. This could very well be due to the soundboard/speaker system, and the reason why I believe the NV-20 will be the consummate aggregate for ‘the best of both worlds’.

Of course, this is assuming the NV-20 will use a soundboard; which in my opinion pairs perfectly with the baby grand form factor (no obstruction).

No, I’m not being sarcastic, Mac!

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You're dreaming, Pete. There is no NV20. smile

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I think it’s about time James settles this (NV-20) rumor once and for all:

Wink once for yes, James!

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There will be a NV20 with a soundboard but alas us peasants will not be able to afford one frown


You have been warned not to try it when it comes out. If you do: Y ou pass Go and go straight to the "poor house"


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
You're dreaming, Pete. There is no NV20. smile

If I take the Yamaha hybrid history (GT..., N..., N...X) I must admit that there is a long era between two generations.

I also see that the N2X idea seams to have been dropped... either these price range is to risky, either Kawai could think there is no concurrence in this price range and a real soundboard would add a real value. Who knows ?

Last edited by Frédéric L; 11/04/20 05:35 PM.

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Originally Posted by mwf
Just got back from a shop comparing nv10 and n1x literally side by side in same hybrid room. Also tried the NV5 which bizarrely is probably the best sounding instrument when played on live out of any of the grand hybrids, however why anyone would specifically want an upright action is beyond me so it's not in the equation.

In the USA, most of us are fortunate to have large homes, mostly at ground level, and without too close neighbors. In Europe this is a great exception rather than the norm. Because of that, there have been and still are generations of pianists, even professional ones, who grow up with uprights. Is any of them an inferior pianist?

For a digital instrument, such as these hybrids, the upright action is still cheaper and takes less room than the grand one. These two are good reasons for that product to exist, even if it does not appeal you. Sure, the upright action makes it more difficult to play some things, and perhaps even impossible to play some others, but how many people are at that level? Not many. As the fortunate owner of both a Yamaha NU1 (hybrid with upright action) and a baby grand, I actually appreciate having the opportunity to be able to practice some things on the upright action, exactly because they are more difficult.

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A N1X is mainly deeper than a NU1X (62 vs. 46cm)

Then height is near (100 vs. 102cm)
The width is near (146 vs. 150cm)

But these later lengths are a little more longer on the NU1X and I don’t know if a NU1X would fit in my house. I have checked for a N1X : it is closed to my limits !!!


(I plan to put the N1X in a roof top.., the height matters !!)


The N1X is shipped unmounted... it can pass my stairs next to a narrow corridor... not sure about the NU1X !

Last edited by Frédéric L; 11/04/20 05:54 PM.

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Originally Posted by mwf
Just got back from a shop comparing nv10 and n1x literally side by side in same hybrid room. Also tried the NV5 which bizarrely is probably the best sounding instrument when played on live out of any of the grand hybrids, however why anyone would specifically want an upright action is beyond me so it's not in the equation.

Second time ive played N1X, and the samples are pretty great to be honest. It's just severely let down by the speaker system in my opinion, i can't physically stand the poor quality of it, its like its bordering on distorting. The sound is far too harsh. The action is also basically just the entry level GBK1 grand they make so nothing special, it's stiff and fairly heavy, but also responsive and fast regardless, it's an ok action.

Jumped on nv10 and not impressed with speaker system either, it's more boxy but less harsh and in your face than the yamaha. It's mildly better than the n1x overall, samples wise on the nv10, not bad, different to yamaha, probably not quite as 'good' but they are still rich sounding and ideal for classical piano mainly.

Anyway I've decided on the nv10 simply because I can't stop wanting to play on its sublime action... I'll run a vst through it like garritan if i want
a different sound anyway. I don't think you can get a better action on a piano unless you spend more towards £20,000, it surpasses most grands I've played on costing alot more. Its fast, handles repeated notes far better than anything else, especially the n1x or n3x, which I think share same action anyway, it's effortless and your hands glide over the keys like clouds of silk...Kawai should be applauded for making this action in my opinion. I can be as expressive as i like on it, beautifully balanced weighting overall.

The speaker system will do, the sampling will do, the action has won me over completely...its astonishingly good.
Did you happen to do a comparison using headphones? I would be playing almost exclusively that way. Thanks.

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Congrats mwf and showpan2 on selecting the NV-10 (and Frederic on choosing the N1X). The PW hybrid family grows smile


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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by mwf
Just got back from a shop comparing nv10 and n1x literally side by side in same hybrid room. Also tried the NV5 which bizarrely is probably the best sounding instrument when played on live out of any of the grand hybrids, however why anyone would specifically want an upright action is beyond me so it's not in the equation.

Second time ive played N1X, and the samples are pretty great to be honest. It's just severely let down by the speaker system in my opinion, i can't physically stand the poor quality of it, its like its bordering on distorting. The sound is far too harsh. The action is also basically just the entry level GBK1 grand they make so nothing special, it's stiff and fairly heavy, but also responsive and fast regardless, it's an ok action.

Jumped on nv10 and not impressed with speaker system either, it's more boxy but less harsh and in your face than the yamaha. It's mildly better than the n1x overall, samples wise on the nv10, not bad, different to yamaha, probably not quite as 'good' but they are still rich sounding and ideal for classical piano mainly.

Anyway I've decided on the nv10 simply because I can't stop wanting to play on its sublime action... I'll run a vst through it like garritan if i want
a different sound anyway. I don't think you can get a better action on a piano unless you spend more towards £20,000, it surpasses most grands I've played on costing alot more. Its fast, handles repeated notes far better than anything else, especially the n1x or n3x, which I think share same action anyway, it's effortless and your hands glide over the keys like clouds of silk...Kawai should be applauded for making this action in my opinion. I can be as expressive as i like on it, beautifully balanced weighting overall.

The speaker system will do, the sampling will do, the action has won me over completely...its astonishingly good.
Did you happen to do a comparison using headphones? I would be playing almost exclusively that way. Thanks.

I don't ever play with headphones... I don't see the point in buying a piano like that and not playing through its speakers.

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I wouldn’t have purchased my N1X if I could play through speakers all the time. (Heck, I can’t even play half the time! Neighbors are not happy at all, which is why I use headphones 95% of the time 😢). I would’ve purchased an acoustic grand otherwise. One can purchase a nice grand for just a few more grands (pun intended).


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I wouldn’t have purchased my N1X if I could play through speakers all the time. (Heck, I can’t even play half the time! Neighbors are not happy at all, which is why I use headphones 95% of the time 😢). I would’ve purchased an acoustic grand otherwise. One can purchase a nice grand for just a few more grands (pun intended).

What would you have purchased and how much do you think it would cost?


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Originally Posted by David B
What would you have purchased and how much do you think it would cost?
Most probably a baby grand such as a Kawai GL10 or a Yamaha GB1.


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