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I have a Yamaha p60 and I’m looking at getting a p515. I live in a remote area and do not have access to a dealer where I could try one out. I’ve heard the p515 action is a little stiff. Can anyone opine on how it would feel compared with that of the p60?

I’m not 100% sold on the p515. Also interested in the Kawai es920

I play classical piano. Non-professional. No room for an acoustic piano sadly

Thanks

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The P60 is in a different league altogether than the p515 and es920. There are tons of posts comparing these two boards, along with the Roland fp90. They are all terrific models. You would find everything about either a huge upgrade.

I had a p80 and really liked the action before it wore out. The p515 feels much better to me and I would not call it stiff. I would just say that Yamaha tends to require a bit more force on the keys. Stiff implies that they are less expressive, and that is not the case.

The ES920 is light to the touch in comparison. The difference in touch is just that- a difference. I would not say one is better or worse. I think the ES920 is the best of the three overall, more for the main piano samples than the keybed, but it really comes down to personal preference. Obviously demoing the two would be the prudent advice, but if you can find one or the other to audition it should tell you enough. The mp7se and ES8 have the same keyed from Kawai.

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See, if we had Key Force Curve graphs , we would be able to explain these comparisons that Chantico made alot more easily, but he has to say things like, not call it stiff, require a bit more force, stiff is less expressive, He's trying to help danno858, but it just doesn't mean much in these types of wording.

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Thanks for the reply. I am certain either will be an upgrade I was wondering how big the difference will be in terms of the instrument sounding more natural.

As regards stiffness, in my mind I was thinking more about speed and fatiguing passages (Chopin, Liszt) rather than expressiveness. Tighter

I would consider the Roland FP90 as well. It’s really difficult to decide on those three that are in my budget without being able to try them all out first. I realize it’s subjective to a certain degree

I appreciate the comments. Thanks

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I’m not bad at math so I think I can relate. So how would these graphs compare between the three models (p515, es920 and fp90) from the standpoint of force required to hit the same volume level? (Maybe I’m oversimplifying but you’ve peaked my interest)

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Originally Posted by danno858
Thanks for the reply. I am certain either will be an upgrade I was wondering how big the difference will be in terms of the instrument sounding more natural.
. . .

PMFJI -

How the instrument _sounds_ doesn't depend on the action at all. It depends on the sound generator. By most people's judgement, and by some objective tests (see the DPBSD thread), the new DP's _sound_ closer to an acoustic, than the P60.

How the instrument _plays_ -- how it feels to the musician striking the keys, and how it transmits his intentions -- that depends a fair bit on the action.

If you want something that plays something like an acoustic piano, any of the newer DP's (P515 / ES920 / FP90) is considerably closer to that, than the P60 is.

It should mean _something_ that there are lots of us who switch from older instruments to newer ones, but very few who return their new, mid-range DP's, and go back to using their old ones.


. Charles
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Originally Posted by danno858
I’m not bad at math so I think I can relate. So how would these graphs compare between the three models (p515, es920 and fp90) from the standpoint of force required to hit the same volume level? (Maybe I’m oversimplifying but you’ve peaked my interest)

It's a movement that's begun for the producers to provide force curves for their piano key actions so people can visualize the sensation. It aids the consumer in discussing their preference online. It doesn't replace going to the store and trying things out if available, but as you are currently experiencing right now, you don't have access to a demo store, how would a consumer like yourself navigate these different actions, how would we- enthusiasts on the forums communicate to you in <relative terms> what we've experienced.

All such endeavors made simpler if the manufacturers would supply the resistance curves.

This is common place in all areas of mechanical UIs, for example computer keyboards, you can find force graphs comparing every single newly released switch. Cherry mx, red, blue, green, black, gateron, kailh, model m, topre, etc etc.

Last edited by jeffcat; 12/17/20 02:57 AM.
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Thanks for your comments. Very helpful and yes of course I want it to feel natural as well. I spent months researching and thought I had settled on taking my chances with the P515 and suddenly the ES920 appeared.

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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
How the instrument _sounds_ doesn't depend on the action at all. It depends on the sound generator. By most people's judgement, and by some objective tests (see the DPBSD thread), the new DP's _sound_ closer to an acoustic, than the P60.

How the instrument _plays_ -- how it feels to the musician striking the keys, and how it transmits his intentions -- that depends a fair bit on the action.

If you want something that plays something like an acoustic piano, any of the newer DP's (P515 / ES920 / FP90) is considerably closer to that, than the P60 is.

It should mean _something_ that there are lots of us who switch from older instruments to newer ones, but very few who return their new, mid-range DP's, and go back to using their old ones.

The sound absolutely depends on the Action. How the user physically interacts with the sound. In what way is the sound not dependent on the action.

In previous discussions, some users already reported, and we've agreed that Kawai's RHC which doesn't have let off simulation is easier to control in terms of dynamism in loudness because of the smooth travel. WHEREAS, Kawai's grand feel in the VPC 1, a much more expensive action, was deemed more difficult to control by some users, because the addition of let off bump threw off their timing.
You've disproved your own first statement with your second statement.

Last edited by jeffcat; 12/17/20 03:07 AM.
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Originally Posted by danno858
Thanks for your comments. Very helpful and yes of course I want it to feel natural as well. I spent months researching and thought I had settled on taking my chances with the P515 and suddenly the ES920 appeared.

You can't go wrong with either. I'd say 920 is the easier option here, since 515 is long in the tooth.

There's also the 520 which uses RHC, basically the same as RH3 in the 920, without the letoff bump. Some users like smooth travel.

Subjectively (to me), with letoff, the key feels more like a button, without letoff it feels more like a springboard.

Last edited by jeffcat; 12/17/20 03:08 AM.
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Thanks everyone for your comments. One last thing - ease of transition to an acoustic piano. I do have access occasionally to an acoustic grand piano. In everyone’s opinions - how hard is it to transition from any if these to an acoustic?

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Originally Posted by danno858
Thanks everyone for your comments. One last thing - ease of transition to an acoustic piano. I do have access occasionally to an acoustic grand piano. In everyone’s opinions - how hard is it to transition from any if these to an acoustic?
I find that its easier to play on all digitals than an acoustic. Then when you encounter an acoustic, you have to cope with the different escapement feel, the longer sustain, and control the tone or dynamics. If you have spent lets says several months on a digital, sitting down at an acoustic could prove interesting. A hybrid will help with the action feel, and setting the velocity to lively will help with the response you might encounter on an acoustic. YMMV

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Let me put it this way, the P-255 can’t hold a candle to the P-515, so yes, the P-60 can’t even be in the same room with the P-515; that’s how much better the P-515 is, and I’m not kidding, Mac!

I’ve owned a P-60 and played the P-255; once again, the P-515 smokes them both!

As Tony (from Bonners) put it, “the P-515 is a revolution and not an evolution”; and this was compared to the P-255.

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pete14 is here to make us /Believe

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Let me put it this way, the P-255 can’t hold a candle to the P-515, so yes, the P-60 can’t even be in the same room with the P-515; that’s how much better the P-515 is, and I’m not kidding, Mac!

I’ve owned a P-60 and played the P-255; once again, the P-515 smokes them both!

As Tony (from Bonners) put it, “the P-515 is a revolution and not an evolution”; and this was compared to the P-255.

Agreed. I own the p155, tried the p60, p515 light years better in the action, but also sound.


Yamaha P155, Yamaha P515

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