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#3088059 03/01/21 12:22 PM
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Hello,
Today a piano technician came to help me with a ticking pedal noise, he spread wd-40 on the action and it did eliminate the ticking noise,
Then I've read out of curiosity about the usage of this spray in pianos and I came to the hundreds of warnings not to use it.
Now it's a bit too late but I am asking if there is something to do to minimize the upcoming possible damage and what to expect.
Thanks in advance

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where exactly he used wd40

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On the silencers, and the on several points bettwen the sustain pedal and the action. Not on the strings or something like that,

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you mean dampers, but where on dampers, it's grand or upright?

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I saw mine using wd40 too on an action mechanism off an upright. I asked him about it, and it was a wide spread habbit he said. I believed him.
It was in this area: https://photos.app.goo.gl/YBDSdN1DcsCiGbvi9

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Like johan_d, I'm refering to an upright piano, but I cannot say for sure where he spread it. All I can say is that he did that while the action mechanism was unattached to it's place and he did that onspecific spots (about 4-5) along the way, and in the sustail pedal area itself.

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I'm guessing he used it on the sustain damper pivot rod hinges. As far as places in a piano that one could erroneously use WD-40 go, that's a relatively low risk of it spreading into the action or onto the strings and messing things up. Still, a bit concerning that he used WD-40 in there instead of a more suitable lubricant.

Also, Johan - Using WD-40 on the actual action mechanisms - particularly action centers like the jack you circled, is NOT recommended. In fact, I'd suggest that if your tech is using WD-40 like that, it may be time to get another tech.


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Originally Posted by adamp88
I'm guessing he used it on the sustain damper pivot rod hinges. As far as places in a piano that one could erroneously use WD-40 go, that's a relatively low risk of it spreading into the action or onto the strings and messing things up. Still, a bit concerning that he used WD-40 in there instead of a more suitable lubricant.

Also, Johan - Using WD-40 on the actual action mechanisms - particularly action centers like the jack you circled, is NOT recommended. In fact, I'd suggest that if your tech is using WD-40 like that, it may be time to get another tech.

I agree, especially with the second part.

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I agree too.

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Originally Posted by adamp88
I'm guessing he used it on the sustain damper pivot rod hinges. As far as places in a piano that one could erroneously use WD-40 go, that's a relatively low risk of it spreading into the action or onto the strings and messing things up. Still, a bit concerning that he used WD-40 in there instead of a more suitable lubricant.

Also, Johan - Using WD-40 on the actual action mechanisms - particularly action centers like the jack you circled, is NOT recommended. In fact, I'd suggest that if your tech is using WD-40 like that, it may be time to get another tech.

+1


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The technical data sheet for WD40 has a list of materials that it is compatible with. Wood is not on the list.


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Does anyone know the long term damage of using wd40? I'm curious because I saw someone training a tech and they were using wd40 silicone spray as a general lubricant.

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Silicone spray can gum up actions after a while. I have used orange oil paint thinner to wash it away, without harming the felt bushings. That freed up the action.


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Traditional WD-40 does not contain silicone. They do have a silicone option, but it says silicone on the label.


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Weird, well I'm not going to name the guy because I'm better than that. But I wish I could check in with his pianos in a few years lol.

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Why oh why does wd40 get this continual bad press? Ordinary WD not their silicone one.
Inevitably it descends to comments about spray on tuning pins. We shouldn't blame the material for it's unsuitable use.
I know a technician who has used it for many years with absolutely no issues. He laughs at me for using more expensive alternatives. He has never had a comeback. I have watched him use it with the straw thing to free off sticking parts in two seconds. He uses as little as possible. On pedals it is far less intrusive than any form of grease.
Wd40 is a great product. Obviously the spray element doesn't help but I have bought it in 5litre bottles when I used to spray the underneath of my classic cars with it. I could easily have decanted some to a syringe or small oiler bottle.
It has no bad effect on wood. Why the bad press?
I challenge anyone to produce evidence of it's material failure in a piano if properly applied.
Lastly, I once did a test of rust prevention on metals. This was car related but I used a piece of wood drilled with six holes into which I glued six identical 6 inch lengths of piano wire.
I coated five of them with different branded rust preventers and then left the last one uncoated. I put this block outside and left it for one year. At the end, the only piece of wire which looked like new was the one coated in WD40. All the others had rusted away. WD40 drives off moisture and leaves a microthin coating, far thinner than silicone. My colleague has demonstrated it's use to me time and time again. I'm ashamed that I don't use it really.
So here's the challenge again....what have you seen that leads you to believe WD40 is an inappropriate material?
Nick

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I should add that I have absolutely no affiliation with the wd40 company.
Nick


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I carry WD40 with me and have used it on pedals. I think it's an excellent product, and your experiment with the coated piano wire lengths is fascinating.

Not unnaturally, I was against the guy near me who used to spray the tuning pins and pinblock liberally with it.

As for the possibility of using it on sluggish actions, I dunno, but I don't like the idea, when Protek CLP seems to work well. But, applied as carefully as Protek CLP, using a 'hypo oiler' bottle, I dunno!

I have used WD40 on an action but once, on a birdcage action that someone had previously applied some oil to, which had dried to a kind of varnish. Telling the client (a work colleague) that it was the only thing I could think of that would be worth trying (this was in days before Protek CLP), and the piano otherwise unplayable and untunable, they agreed for me to give it a go. It worked like magic! And stayed effective in subsequent years.

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Looks like a resounding (though silent) victory for wd40 then?
Perhaps we should all start using it cautiously?
Nick


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Uh ... no. Not at all.
Originally Posted by N W
Looks like a resounding (though silent) victory for wd40 then? Perhaps we should all start using it cautiously?
As my dad used to say ... just because somebody jumps off a roof doesn't mean you should.

WD40 has its uses. But remember ... WD stands for water displacement. Has your piano been flooded lately?

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Uh ... no. Not at all.
Originally Posted by N W
Looks like a resounding (though silent) victory for wd40 then? Perhaps we should all start using it cautiously?
As my dad used to say ... just because somebody jumps off a roof doesn't mean you should.

WD40 has its uses. But remember ... WD stands for water displacement. Has your piano been flooded lately?

Most of the sticking issues I meet are because moisture has condensed on a steel pin and swollen the surrounding felt.
So moisture displacement is the ideal remedy.....

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All I can say is I will never use it and I will never recommend nor condone its use on a piano. There may be places, like trap work, where judicious use could be temporarily effective without creating unrepairable damage. But the temptation becomes great to use it where it has no business being.

So, No ... just No


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Interesting reply Bill....but I'd love to know why? Why, for instance, you condone and use whatever make of liquid you do use? And why imply wd "creating unrepairable damage" when there's absolutely no reports of wd doing any such thing?
I'm truly mystified why you would post such a condemnation...especially as I asked earlier for any reasons why we don't accept it as a useful tool and the only single reply seemed to me to endorse the fact that it worked really well.

Whatever is going on?

Nick


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Well, there have been horror stories of its MISuse, and perhaps that has coloured perception of it. There was a story, either in here or on a PTG forum, of a helpful husband liberally spraying WD40 all over the interior of his wife's Steinway grand. And in my area thewre was the guy who used to spray it all over the tuning pins. But as for using it in a judicious way, to see what happens, no-one seems to have anything to report!

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You're right David. I'm old enough to remember the old boys who, when I was young, used lighter fluid (petrol type, not gas, to free off centres. Then along came very expensive stuff in very small bottles which we used because we assumed there was something better in it. And, to be honest, we thought we were more clever than the old boys.
So now we use overpriced, minutely packaged "stuff" and pour scorn on a good product merely because the one is hard toapply and the other comes in a spray which makes it easy for someone who doesn't know what they are doing to misuse. I can't see the wisdom in that, isn't it like shooting the messenger?
It's not good being older, one sees through the new developments, the pintight that was marketed as superior in tiny bottles which turned out to be just one of the ingredients of old pintight, i.e.glycol. it did a fair bit of damage before it was withdrawn.
I went to a lecture by Abel hammers where he told us alot of good old piano wisdom was lost in the 70s and 80s that they were just returning to using. That was around twelve years ago.

The prejudice* against wd40 just mystifies me. My own reason for not using it is simply worrying what clients would think if I pulled out such a well known name. Far better for me to apply a mysterious, available only to highly skilled magicians like me, small bottled miracle.
smile
Nick

* I use the word prejudice as it is the correct term for the dismissal of something with absolutely no discernable reason.


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What would you use it for then Nick? Tight centres?

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I read in an old text on piano technology that there was a time when actions that were sluggish were doused with gasoline to free them up. Gasoline is too dangerous to use, but I had some orange oil thinner and tried that on a piano that was unplayable, dunking the parts in them. It did not damage the parts, including the felt and leather, and washed away a lot of gunk, and the piano played well after that. So now I use it more liberally. There is always the Protek available as well.


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Originally Posted by David Boyce
What would you use it for then Nick? Tight centres?

I guess so. I have a colleague who attaches the straw thing to a can of wd and drops it onto the offending part. I've seen him do it and he's careful. He uses it in a diagnostic way too. He will systematically treat each centrepin on, say, one note, in order to discover where the friction is. Hammer, then whippen, and so on. Because the straw gives him accurate access, he can see immediate results. He tells me that it's often an entirely permanent fix so he robs himself of recentring jobs!

Nick


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Originally Posted by BDB
I read in an old text on piano technology that there was a time when actions that were sluggish were doused with gasoline to free them up. Gasoline is too dangerous to use, but I had some orange oil thinner and tried that on a piano that was unplayable, dunking the parts in them. It did not damage the parts, including the felt and leather, and washed away a lot of gunk, and the piano played well after that. So now I use it more liberally. There is always the Protek available as well.
Anyone know what protek contains?
Yet we all recommend it....imagine if it turned out to be wd40 in there!
smile
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No, it's not WD40 at all! It is some kind of fluoropolymer, but it's impossible to find out exact information on the formula. I suspect it will be some kind of industrial lubricant re-branded and sold as Protek CLP for pianos. It doesn't small like WD40.

I would love to try Fomblin but you can only get it in larger quantities in the UK and it is very expensive.

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I have diluted it (protek) with alcohol sometimes. The alcohol shrinks the felt a little I think which helps free off the flange. Good for slow jacks.
Isn't it odd that we can't find out the recipe or even who the company is?
Nick


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There was some discussion of this previously. It's some fellow working out of his garage somewhere, I think. Good on him for discovering that this fluoropolymer liquid works well on pianos, whatver it is.

It probably operates just of the right side of the law, in terms of Safety Data Sheets.

If you Google Protek Products Inc, you can find the company registration details.

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Today I applied WD40 to front rail and balance rail pins. The difference it made was huge! The keys feel much smoother now. I also applied it to the pedals which were squeaking, that also is solved now. If no long term problems will be observed, I am at this stage very happy with its results.

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That's interesting, Walkman. How did you apply it?

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it was in a spray bottle (like the hairsprays are) and came with extra attachable nozzle, which made it very easy to get everywhere without spraying on anything else. I removed the keys and sprayed all the pins, to some key I even sprayed inside the key holes.
I have nothibg bad to report yet. It plays much smoother. Now I am thinking, maybe I should do some other parts which play a role in how the action feels, but I am a bit afraid yet.

I will definitely try it in the area between the jack and hammer butt. Some of the notes on my upright do hit the strings twice if the keys are not pressed to its deepest. My tech could do nothing about it and told me to play with deep fingers smile

What I noticed is that if the key is not pressed very thoroughly the jack does not fully come out from the butt and the hammer that has returned from the string bounces on the jack with inertia and hits the string again. The sound is very quiet but of course it plays a negative part in overall aural perception

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All the WD40 discussions make me uneasy, even though I haven’t come across any pianos with it yet. (Knock on wood) Is there are way to reverse/ remove it from the felt, bushing cloth, or wood aside from replacing the parts?

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Ok so I've been questioning the wholesale condemnation of WD40 but I think I should hastily state that I do not see how WD can help a badly adjusted jack. I would advise very careful thought before thinking WD can cure something like that Walkman. Normally I would examine the lost motion and the setoff of the notes troubling you before reaching for the spray.
Just my opinion of course.
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I tested it on one hammer and it did not help )

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Quote
Some of the notes on my upright do hit the strings twice if the keys are not pressed to its deepest. My tech could do nothing about it and told me to play with deep fingers smile

What I noticed is that if the key is not pressed very thoroughly the jack does not fully come out from the butt and the hammer that has returned from the string bounces on the jack with inertia and hits the string again. The sound is very quiet but of course it plays a negative part in overall aural perception.

I think you might cure the hammer bobbling by trying this: 1) Slightly increase the set-off distance, by adjusting the set-off screw, so that the jack is stopped earlier (hammer sets off further from the strings). 2) Slightly bend the bridle tape wire towards you, so that there is slightly less slack on the bridle tapes.

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I feel I have to make this post. I dont post a lot but have been lurking for years. I notice that there are many ones on here who are working on there own pianos. Please DO NOT use WD40 on your piano. I mean no disrespect. However, do not let a few piano technicians on this forum who use this make you think its a good idea. Long term WD40 is bad for wood and should not be used on a piano action or key bed. Most piano technicians will tell you this. Do not allow a vocal minority to cause you to do something that could cause issues to your piano in the future. Even if WD40 did work, we have so many other safer lubricants that work. No need to take the risk. Now maybe a tech might use it on a piano that is pretty much junk as a last hail marry. So if you are working on a piano that you dont care about at all and have tried everything else then go for it. However I still dont reccomend it. When it comes to WD40 on pianos NO NO NO!

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Originally Posted by jltuning
I feel I have to make this post. I dont post a lot but have been lurking for years. I notice that there are many ones on here who are working on there own pianos. Please DO NOT use WD40 on your piano. I mean no disrespect. However, do not let a few piano technicians on this forum who use this make you think its a good idea. Long term WD40 is bad for wood and should not be used on a piano action or key bed. Most piano technicians will tell you this. Do not allow a vocal minority to cause you to do something that could cause issues to your piano in the future. Even if WD40 did work, we have so many other safer lubricants that work. No need to take the risk. Now maybe a tech might use it on a piano that is pretty much junk as a last hail marry. So if you are working on a piano that you dont care about at all and have tried everything else then go for it. However I still dont reccomend it. When it comes to WD40 on pianos NO NO NO!

I have to agree, plus it stinks!


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I tried out your recommendation, but could not improve anything. I probably will give up. Is this ancommon problem? I do have on both of my petrofs. Nothing helps.

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Walkman,

Have you tried adjusting the backchecks so as to catch the hammer a little closer to the strings? Or, are the backchecks even doing their thing (catching the backstop) or are they bouncing off?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


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Originally Posted by Walkman
I tried out your recommendation, but could not improve anything. I probably will give up. Is this ancommon problem? I do have on both of my petrofs. Nothing helps.

You can do a little more observation to see what is leading to this symptom. It sounds like it happens mostly when you play softly? (the tech recommendation to play deeper) Try to determine if the jack is getting all the way out from under the butt when it bobbles. If not, then the earlier letoff would be one way to help.

If you can't feel any movement in the key after the jack releases, (aftertouch) then you might want to try reducing the blow distance. (distance from hammer to strings at rest) This is most easily done (and reversible) by shimming the hammer rest rail up a little with felt or leather and then adjusting the capstans to just have a tiny bit of lost motion.

It becomes a balancing act between too wide of a let-off and deeper aftertouch - and loss of control of the hammer to the string for sensitive playing.

Good luck!

Ron Koval

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Thank you all.

The problem is the following:
The key dip I observed has 3 parts. 1. When you press the key until the jack reaches the butt to start the hammer moving (this part is kept to minimum or is non existent) 2. When the jack lifts up together with the hammerbutt 3. When the jack comes out of the hammerbutt ( is it what is called aftertouch?)
When I press the key during soft playing so that I do not go all the way into the key ( the jack has not esacaped from the hammerbutt) the hammerbutts bounce on the jack and hit the strings back.
I could only eliminate this problem when I regulated the letoff button so that the jack esacapes from earlier, but this resklted in a huge letoff - 3cm (more than an inch), rather than the usual mm-s recommended.

Here is the video demonstration. G is regulated so that the hammers d9nt strike the strings again, but the let off is huge. G sharp is not regulated and let off is ok but when pressed softly it bounces on the jack. There is no problem when it is played softly but deeply into the key dip.


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Originally Posted by jltuning
I feel I have to make this post. I dont post a lot but have been lurking for years. I notice that there are many ones on here who are working on there own pianos. Please DO NOT use WD40 on your piano. I mean no disrespect. However, do not let a few piano technicians on this forum who use this make you think its a good idea. Long term WD40 is bad for wood and should not be used on a piano action or key bed. Most piano technicians will tell you this. Do not allow a vocal minority to cause you to do something that could cause issues to your piano in the future. Even if WD40 did work, we have so many other safer lubricants that work. No need to take the risk. Now maybe a tech might use it on a piano that is pretty much junk as a last hail marry. So if you are working on a piano that you dont care about at all and have tried everything else then go for it. However I still dont reccomend it. When it comes to WD40 on pianos NO NO NO!

I try not to use lubricants at all on pianos, especially on wood, but what damage specifically have you seen WD40 do? What lubricants to you know are safer? All we have to go on is your word, which sounds like a rant. If you do not give any specific information, why should anyone follow your advice?


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Walkman, could you tell us these measurements? The keydip and the hammer (at rest) to strings.

And looking at your video I think maybe, maybe your backchecks need attention. I just catch a glimpse of them later in the video and they are not in a straight line. The g sharp seems to set too far back to me you could try taking the backcheck closer to the hammer butt...but it's a subtle adjustment, not just of position but of angle as well. I think there is scope to check closer to the strings which might stop the butt sitting back on the jack. But it may take you a while to get the feel for this adjustment.

Nick

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Walkman, your number 3) is called "set-off", not aftertouch.

I wonder if you are confusing set-off and chacking distances.

Set off happens closer to the strings in a (well-regulated) grand than can be achieved in an upright. Pressing the key slowly, watch the hammer move towards the strings. It should stop moving forward (because of set-off) at 3-5mm.

When you strike the key firmly, the hammer rebounds and the "catcher" ("balance hammer in UK terminology) is caught on the backcheck. That sould happen with the hammer around 15mm from the strings, approximately.

For your Number 1) above, there should be virtually no movement of the key before the jack starts to push the hammer butt. "Lost motion" here is a major cause of bobbling.

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There are a couple of videos about lubricating center pins with Fomblin, from Supply88:



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Originally Posted by BDB
Originally Posted by jltuning
I feel I have to make this post. I dont post a lot but have been lurking for years. I notice that there are many ones on here who are working on there own pianos. Please DO NOT use WD40 on your piano. I mean no disrespect. However, do not let a few piano technicians on this forum who use this make you think its a good idea. Long term WD40 is bad for wood and should not be used on a piano action or key bed. Most piano technicians will tell you this. Do not allow a vocal minority to cause you to do something that could cause issues to your piano in the future. Even if WD40 did work, we have so many other safer lubricants that work. No need to take the risk. Now maybe a tech might use it on a piano that is pretty much junk as a last hail marry. So if you are working on a piano that you dont care about at all and have tried everything else then go for it. However I still dont reccomend it. When it comes to WD40 on pianos NO NO NO!

I try not to use lubricants at all on pianos, especially on wood, but what damage specifically have you seen WD40 do? What lubricants to you know are safer? All we have to go on is your word, which sounds like a rant. If you do not give any specific information, why should anyone follow your advice?

WD-40 is not a true lubricant rather it is a water displacer.The lubricant-like properties of WD-40 come not from the substance itself, but from dissolving components. An interesting article i read mentions that WD-40 is hygroscopic and will attract moisture which I found interesting. On pianos WD-40 may work temporarily. However, It dries sticky and attracts dirt and dust. It also hardens the flange felt. It basically creates more problems long term. I have never found a piano that was treated with WD-40 in the action that didn't have worse problems then before. You asked for choices of lubricants. One I use is protek CLP. That's my go to. There are others. Even that many times is temporary and the piano needs to be repined. Many times lubricants tend to be temporary fixes, but not always. I hope that answers your questions. What I gave was not a rant, but setting the record straight due to some poor advice from a vocal minority. WD-40 on a piano action is a No NO.

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I said that your post sounded like a rant. You then provided a better response, with your objections. But really, if there are other good lubricants, either say what they are, or just recommend what you use. These posts are read by some people who might be inclined to experiment. There are way too many posts in this area that do not give enough information to keep amateurs out of trouble.

To anyone who wants to experiment, do it on a junk action. But as I said, I rarely use any lubricants. The friction from wearing in an action is the best lubricant!


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The hammer rest position is measured at 53 mm from the strings. The key dip is 12mm.
Another video

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I just realized in tenor section its less at 48mm. Seems like strings are deeper in trebĺe than in tenor section.

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Jltuning, you need to select your reading matter more carefully. You state that wd is a water displacer.
Can a water displacer be hygroscopic? No. How could it be? The confusion comes from an old theory that WD displaced by attracting water into itself then running off. Actually wd drives the water off. It's a water repellant.
If it attracted water it would cause rust. I have personally tested it over a year (as detailed in one of my posts) and it was actually the only product that completely prevented rust forming on piano wire.
Actually, wd doesn't dry sticky. Simple to test. Interestingly Protek clp which you recommend, does dry sticky. Another easy test.
So much misinformation...I don't think you can legitimately call that "setting the record straight" when actually you are clouding the waters.
Be honest, it's simply prejudice.
I agree with you that no lubricant or anything is as good as a properly fitted replacement centre.
Nick

Last edited by N W; 03/22/21 11:40 AM.

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Originally Posted by N W
Jltuning, you need to select your reading matter more carefully. You state that wd is a water displacer.
Can a water displacer be hygroscopic? No. How could it be? The confusion comes from an old theory that WD displaced by attracting water into itself then running off. Actually wd drives the water off. It's a water repellant.
If it attracted water it would cause rust. I have personally tested it over a year (as detailed in one of my posts) and it was actually the only product that completely prevented rust forming on piano wire.
Actually, wd doesn't dry sticky. Simple to test. Interestingly Protek clp which you recommend, does dry sticky. Another easy test.
So much misinformation...I don't think you can legitimately call that "setting the record straight" when actually you are clouding the waters.
Be honest, it's simply prejudice.
I agree with you that no lubricant or anything is as good as a properly fitted replacement centre.
Nick

I quoted an article that was not related to pianos because I thought that was interesting. It was a lifehacker article, when not to use WD-40 I believe. A quick google search would bring it up for you. Obviously I do not know the sources used nor have the time to verify them. However, what i do know is that In my experiance WD-40 dries sticky. Of course in thinking about it the stickiness could be the oily residue combined with dirt and dust. So maybe on a clean service with out dust it wouldn't be sticky. Of course as we know, pianos NEVER get dusty. (sarcasm)Protek CLP does Not dry sticky. The fact you said that really calls into question everything you just said. Yes, I have tested it. It dried non sticky. I honestly question if you have ever used it. You accuse me of prejudice yet you seem to be extremely emotionally invested in using WD-40 when other lubricants will do the exact same thing with no risk of damaging the piano. So who is actually prejudiced. However I am done argueing this point. Anybody who reads this can make up there own mind. If they are unsure of who to listen to I reccomend checking out past discussions on this subject in both this board and the ptg board. Also to Google the topic. Dont just take my or one other techs word for it. See what the majority of other techs say. In addition look at what is said in piano literature such as "Pianos Inside Out" by Mario Igrec. Hint, he says in the book not to use it on wood felt or leather. However dont just take my word for it. Do your research. In the end, though, its better to do nothing then the wrong thing. So research, research research.This is of course unless it is something that is easily reversible, you are using a junk piano or one you do not care about.

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Originally Posted by BDB
I said that your post sounded like a rant. You then provided a better response, with your objections. But really, if there are other good lubricants, either say what they are, or just recommend what you use. These posts are read by some people who might be inclined to experiment. There are way too many posts in this area that do not give enough information to keep amateurs out of trouble.

I agree. That was an oversight on my part. I was in a hurry when I posted and didn't go into enough details or provide enough information.

Originally Posted by BDB
To anyone who wants to experiment, do it on a junk action. But as I said, I rarely use any lubricants. The friction from wearing in an action is the best lubricant!

I couldn't agree more. In fact when protek does work best I feel it is more as a bridge to allow the piano to be played and friction to take over. Case In point, just today I tuned a piano that I put Protek CLP on about 6 months ago. When I tuned it 6 months ago it was in good shape, but hadnt been serviced in about 5 years. The children were about to start piano lessons on it so they wanted it tuned up and playable. I did just that and used protek on some sticking notes. Today everything was working beautifully. However, the piano is being played regularly since the children practice at least once a day. It is my belief that it was the friction from use that made the hammers loosen up. The Protek just bridged the gap and allowed that use to take place.

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There are a few rust prevention videos on YouTube and WD-40 may slow it down, but doesn't prevent it. It may displace water in liquid form but doesn't seem to work in vapor form (i.e. humidity). As a lubricant, there are safer alternatives, though they might not be cheaper.

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Hi JLtuning,
I like your reply. Like you, I'm done talking about wd asit seems to provoke emotional reactions.
I will just say though that I have not shown any emotional investment in the product. Like you, I use protek actually.
If you read my earlier posts you will see that I make it clear that I don't actually use wd40 in pianos.
What I've been suggesting is that there has never been presented any evidence that it does all this "harrm".
When I asked for anyone's actual bad experiences, the only posts that came back were of good experiences!
Then, I think, you claimed it caused rust! Which I know it does not. I've used wd40 extensively in classic car maintenance and done some actual experiments with various rust retardants and wd was the best. It also has no bad affect on wood, which is why we use it on wooden framed cars.
It seems to me that the emotional investment is in keeping protek as the only treatment when a good tool box contains many different tools for different situations.
I never intended to offend anyone, I only asked a few questions regarding evidence... I'm just surprised at the defensive responses.
That's enough from me anyway, all my comments are only my opinion, I'm not trying to force anyone to agree with me.
Nick


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Thank you N W for pointing out the rust prevention properties of WD. I will obtain an aerosol for use on my estate car which I hope one day will be considered a classic.

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to be honest, the only real damage from wd40 is on glue. It tends to dry up fast anyhow and its effcts are minimal. But never spray on tuning pins !!

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It stinks, was made to loosen rusted bolts and nuts. (Don't get it on plastic surfaces, or finishes such as the fishing gps in my boat, it will melt the screen)

As piano technicians, we are as specialized and professional as car mechanics or welders and plumbers etc....

There is also less of us. And products only available to us. We pass that cost onto our customers because we can offer excellent service. (same as mechanics etc...)

So products directly related to our trade are available. They evolve and become better all the time.

So

WD-40 stinks, Protek does not.

Last edited by accordeur; 03/31/21 09:32 PM. Reason: clarity and rant

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I suspect that Protek was not developed by a chemical engineer specifically for the piano trade!

I imagine that it is an existing fluoropolymer industrial lubricant bottled up and re-badged. But good on the Protek proprietor for discovering how this stuff could be used for piano work, and for presenting it in bottles that we can use to inform and impress clients. It is certainly a most useful and benign product.

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If all the "harm" for the piano comes down only to the fact that wd-40 stinks, then it is not forever and disappears. We are not required to fill the entire tool with the agent, but only minimally as needed. In my opinion, there is nothing more to discuss.

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After the last flurry of anti WD I asked one of my clients who is an industrial chemist what wd40 was and what protek was.
He told me that wd had to change their recipe several years ago as some of the solvent had poor effects on respiration or something. But he maintained that the current recipe was good. He also stated that it is designed purely as a water displacement, not designed to loosen rusty bolts at all. Apparently that is a complete misuse of the product even though it often appears in TV shows where they are using it in that way.

Protek, in his opinion was a specific American gun oil. He said he would tell me the exact make in due course.

Curiouser and curiouser....
Nick


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It will be very interesting in your chemist client is able to identify the brand of gun oil!

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Wd40 stinks. After application almost 2 weeks ago, I still get its smell sometimes. Subtle, but noticeable. Also, be very careful not to spray it on keytops accidentally. I did and one key has somewhat notiecable faded spots.

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Originally Posted by David Boyce
It will be very interesting in your chemist client is able to identify the brand of gun oil!
That's my thought too....will he come through??? Time will tell I suppose...


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I await, agog!

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And me!

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In an old soviet book on piano maintenance, the author suggests using watch oil. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of oil?

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I was just watching a few Nekkid Watchmaker videos on YouTube, and he uses several different types of lubricants. He says there are lubrication charts for different watches that say what to use where, but he cannot find them for all different motions, and some of them are too old to have them.

The important thing to glean from that is that finding the ideal lubricant will probably take some experimentation, and those that do it, sell it for a good price. So if you are in doubt, buy what is available for the purpose, and charge the customer appropriately.


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