2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
53 members (accordeur, CaseyVancouver, CodySean, CraiginNZ, Burkey, 16 invisible), 1,009 guests, and 552 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 513
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 513
So those who read my posts know I care deeply about music and feel quality equipment, hi fi, is an important component for emotional connection to it.

Here is a great story of a guy, nearing his end, and his love for music... and passion to get it to sound its best.

What does this have to do with pianos? Ummm... spend some bucks on speakers and headphones... don't cheap out.

Peace
Bruce in Philly


Last edited by Bruce In Philly; 03/31/21 05:32 PM.

Peace
Bruce in Philly
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,310
E
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,310
ALS - that's a bummer! Such a cruel disease. What the guy has built is quite astounding.

My Dad would be like this if he could. I helped him last week to get his new speakers up to his hi-fi room. Some sort of Martin Logan electro-statics. He used to have all Krell pre amps, power amps and power supplies. He's changed those in his never-ending quest for PS Audio stuff. I (not very politely) point out that at 78 his hearing's shot but still he carries on. At least with him it is a love of music, not just all about the equipment.

I was into hi-fi for a while as a young man but although it's not my thing these days I will always appreciate high quality sound because it gets you closer to the music.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
L
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
Originally Posted by Bruce In Philly
So those who read my posts know I care deeply about music and feel quality equipment, hi fi, is an important component for emotional connection to it.

Here is a great story of a guy, nearing his end, and his love for music... and passion to get it to sound its best.

What does this have to do with pianos? Ummm... spend some bucks on speakers and headphones... don't cheap out.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Ha, Bruce, I remember watching that video a while ago.

My stereo has always brought me a lot of joy so I know where the guy is coming from. I think it’s sad that so many people don’t build a two channel system.

All of us work within the limits of our incomes and time. The nice thing about the building a high quality system is that you can always buy components from people who are further up the feeding chain.

My speakers and my amplifier were bought from very wealthy individuals, one who was turning his three car garage into a listening room, so my speakers were not big enough for that room, and the other from a guy who upgraded to massive mono blocks and no longer needed my small 160w/80kg Class A amplifier, lol.

Here is a picture of my humble rig:

[Linked Image]

Last edited by LarryK; 03/31/21 05:50 PM.
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 805
T
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 805
I thank my lucky stars every day that I don't suffer from audiophilia. I'm able to enjoy music without my wallet suffering so ... wink

But seriously: thanks for sharing the video.


Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland DP-603, Roland RD-2000, Yamaha MX61, Casio CDP-130
Past: Roland FP-30, Casio PX-160, Casio PX-830
Etc.: PianoTeq Stage 7 (Bechstein, Bluethner, U4), Roland KC-80
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
L
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710

Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
E
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
I remember my old piano teacher bragging about her new 75k yamaha piano, and it went into a basically cube 9x9x9 room. The room cancellations were awful. This probably describes the fate of the majority of Hifi equipment and pianos.

Does it even make sense to buy pianos above 10K unless you have probably double that to throw into room mods. It's even harder to get the aesthetic in the wife-approved category.

Last edited by EinLudov; 03/31/21 08:11 PM.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,780
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,780
Me too!
Originally Posted by TheophilusCarter
I thank my lucky stars every day that I don't suffer from audiophilia. I'm able to enjoy music without my wallet suffering so ... wink
Spending 100x in order to get 10% improvement is just not my game.

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,296
P
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,296
I don’t want to be insensitive, but is audiophilia a real thing? If so, what are the existing treatments for audiophiliacs?

Can poor people ‘catch’ this disease or is it a neurological disorder inherited from rich parents?

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 805
T
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 805
Originally Posted by Pete14
I don’t want to be insensitive, but is audiophilia a real thing? If so, what are the existing treatments for audiophiliacs?
Unfortunately, there is no cure. At best, one can keep it under control by owning better audio equipment than one's friends and family.
Originally Posted by Pete14
Can poor people ‘catch’ this disease or is it a neurological disorder inherited from rich parents?
In my experience, it is typically contracted from college dorm mates, especially those who listen to Pink Floyd.

Last edited by TheophilusCarter; 03/31/21 08:59 PM.

Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland DP-603, Roland RD-2000, Yamaha MX61, Casio CDP-130
Past: Roland FP-30, Casio PX-160, Casio PX-830
Etc.: PianoTeq Stage 7 (Bechstein, Bluethner, U4), Roland KC-80
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,296
P
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,296
grin

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
L
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
Originally Posted by Pete14
I don’t want to be insensitive, but is audiophilia a real thing? If so, what are the existing treatments for audiophiliacs?

Can poor people ‘catch’ this disease or is it a neurological disorder inherited from rich parents?

If audiophilia is a malady, it is relatively harmless one, unlike drinking and drug abuse.

Seeing how you can put together a two channel system for a few thousand bucks, as I did in the beginning, I don’t think audiophilia is limited to rich people.

Old amplifiers and speakers can be purchased at bargain prices and the sound quality can be very good.

I purchased and sold gear over a period of decades to arrive at where I am now. I think my amplifier and speakers are a lifetime purchase, well, at least the amplifier.

Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 188
V
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 188
For me the best of the video is that behind the gigantic speaker abke to reproduce the most infinite frequencies, he has a pair of tall clocks that are the best noise generators ever. Does he stop the clock mechanisms before listening to music?

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
L
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
Originally Posted by vagfilm
For me the best of the video is that behind the gigantic speaker abke to reproduce the most infinite frequencies, he has a pair of tall clocks that are the best noise generators ever. Does he stop the clock mechanisms before listening to music?


With those speakers, and the amplifiers pushing them, I think the clocks are inaudible, lol. It is easy to stop those clocks, though. I wish they had mentioned SPL achieved by that system. I’d love to hear orchestral music on his system. That’s what big amplifiers are good for, rendering orchestral music.

Dynamic range is something that is challenging for systems, and something that is hard to explain to one’s wife. I have told my wife that in order to hear the quiet parts she’s going to have to tolerate some very loud parts but that the loud parts will not last that long, haha.

It’s funny that heavy metal or rock music with a limited dynamic range can be listened to at any volume level but not orchestral music that has a wide dynamic range.

Last edited by LarryK; 03/31/21 11:01 PM.
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
E
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Pete14
I don’t want to be insensitive, but is audiophilia a real thing? If so, what are the existing treatments for audiophiliacs?

Can poor people ‘catch’ this disease or is it a neurological disorder inherited from rich parents?

If audiophilia is a malady, it is relatively harmless one, unlike drinking and drug abuse.

Vanity is not harmless. Everyone buys one extra speaker, that's a mountain of e-waste. It's a problem when capitalist marketing compels people to buy regardless of whether or not they need the object.

So, we have a problem, a big one, core corruption.

Last edited by EinLudov; 03/31/21 11:51 PM.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,780
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,780
Perhaps you should look up the definition of vanity.
This "audiophilia" is not vanity. It could be a compulsive disorder. Or it could be just a hobby. But it's not vanity.

And it's not common. So I'm not concerned about any "mountain of e-waste".

And no one is compelled to buy. Capitalist marketing is not compulsion.

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,310
E
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,310
I thought it would go like this - all the venom against hi-fi lovers who are doing no harm to anyone and just want to hear their music sound better.

I have been an 'audiophile' but no longer consider myself one. I can see both sides but I always find the unpleasantness towards hi-fi lovers from non-hi-fi lovers difficult to rationalise.

At some point surely anyone would accept that some music replay systems are better than others. The desire to improve a music replay system gets labelled as 'audiophilia' or some other derogatory thing. When? Is it based on cost? When is that line crossed (in the minds of the audiophile haters)? I don't know. But how is it intrinsically bad that someone should want to hear their music sound as good as possible within their budget?

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,986
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,986
Everybody wants to hear things better, we're all "audiophiles" in a way. It's when one becomes obsessed with audio quality at the expense of the sheer pleasure from listening to music when it starts being ugly. Purchasing expensive cables and devices that cannot be explained with science, only with pseudo-science and X-Files type of mumbo-jumbo. I have way too many friends who don't use their audiophile systems to listen to music but the other way around: they use some vinyl/CD/tapes as an accessory to listen to their systems and to showcase to other people how much money they spent. That is pervert and deserves any mockery there is.

Last edited by CyberGene; 04/01/21 04:33 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
L
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
Originally Posted by EinLudov
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Pete14
I don’t want to be insensitive, but is audiophilia a real thing? If so, what are the existing treatments for audiophiliacs?

Can poor people ‘catch’ this disease or is it a neurological disorder inherited from rich parents?

If audiophilia is a malady, it is relatively harmless one, unlike drinking and drug abuse.

Vanity is not harmless. Everyone buys one extra speaker, that's a mountain of e-waste. It's a problem when capitalist marketing compels people to buy regardless of whether or not they need the object.

So, we have a problem, a big one, core corruption.

Actually, the problem is one of low quality cheap components that are soon thrown away. What is the lifespan of a Bluetooth speaker or of a cheap component? It is short. The cheap gear from the old days is in the landfills. The high quality gear lasts.

I started out running twenty five year old components from the 1970 and 1980s. Sometimes those components developed issues, but they could be fixed and put back into service. The original designer of the McIntosh MR-78 FM tuner fixed the thing for me for free, decades after it rolled off the production line.

What is this extra speaker you speak of? I always joke that I can barely afford two high quality speakers, I would never buy a third. I find the multichannel speaker systems to be ridiculous, and quality goes down when adding more cheap drivers.

My speaker drivers were handmade, and are of high quality, can handle high power, and will most likely last me for decades more. Even if a cone surround gives out, that can be fixed.

Why is this vanity? Audiophilia has nothing to do with my appearance, it is all about trying to improve sound quality. Since sound quality is difficult to measure, audiophiles get written off as vain creatures, when they’re actually quite harmless, and are only seeking solace in the music.

Beyond the components, the supply side of the music equation has improved dramatically in the last few years. I have access to a vast amount of music, streamed lossless from Tidal and Qobuz under Roon, for $50/month. If I had never bought a physical CD, I would have saved perhaps $50k in my lifetime. That would have paid for a nice system right there.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
L
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Everybody wants to hear things better, we're all "audiophiles" in a way. It's when one becomes obsessed with audio quality at the expense of the sheer pleasure from listening to music when it starts being ugly. Purchasing expensive cables and devices that cannot be explained with science, only with pseudo-science and X-Files type of mumbo-jumbo. I have way too many friends who don't use their audiophile systems to listen to music but the other way around: they use some vinyl/CD/tapes as an accessory to listen to their systems and to showcase to other people how much money they spent. That is pervert and deserves any mockery there is.

I remember my classical guitar teacher, whose wife is an opera singer, delighting in what he heard from my system. He heard his favorite recordings with a fidelity that he had never heard before. I just handed him Roon running on my iPad and let him play whatever music he liked. There was such joy in his face. Another friend of mine, also a music teacher, was glued to the couch, conducting the stereo, lol.

I tricked my electrician into thinking I was playing the cello, haha. Imagine, me as Casals!

Vocals can stop me in my tracks. The voice of Nina Simone can make me cry, literally.

For me, the joy and emotion I derive from my stereo system is what matters, the money spent is soon forgotten. You can look up the MSRP but I didn’t pay retail, I bought almost everything used.

Yes, I suppose some people show off how much money they have spent on their stereos. They do the same with cars and houses. How do we differentiate between the love of music and that which you despise?

I could put together a pretty good two channel system for $1k, and I did back in the old days. Sure, after many decades, I have spent more but I only upgrade when I can achieve a dramatic improvement in sound quality. Upgrading my speakers, and then amplifier, have made a huge difference in the sound quality. I am trying to think what would be now yield a large improvement, and, nope, it’s not a cable, lol.

Would it be much better preamp? I don’t know, honestly, and it is hard to tell.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,986
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,986
I’ve noticed there are a very few audiophiles among musicians. Musicians can appreciate your stereo and will love it but in the very next moment they can listen to their favorite recording on the mono speaker of their phone and would not care at all. Audiophiles in my (biased) opinion are most often people who don’t like music. They don’t care and are not touched by music. They collect only music that is considered “referent” for audio quality but would just spin it up for a minute once a month to either enjoy their system, not the music. Or to use it as an excuse for why they need to upgrade the power cable, or whatever, and would always find that there is something that needs an upgrade. There are exceptions of course.

Last edited by CyberGene; 04/01/21 05:32 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Best Tuner for singing?
by ZanderChicago - 06/20/21 11:37 AM
Recent 24” M1 iMac and Pianos
by dhts - 06/20/21 07:55 AM
Digital piano - online vs in store purchase.
by witor - 06/20/21 07:45 AM
help finding best action DP
by luisdent - 06/20/21 02:03 AM
I’m completely lost!
by Mils - 06/19/21 11:33 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics207,616
Posts3,105,635
Members101,869
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5