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A nice review of the FP-90x



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So an interesting result today.

If you uses the piano designer app and save a configuration to your library, it also saves the piano type.

So for instance you do a custom tuning of the concert grand piano 1, save it to the library, select the stage mellow, go to the library and click on that saved configuration, the stage mellow becomes, the concert grand.

so you could save that to piano and next time you power up the stage mellow would be, the concert grand

it also means that each piano is tuned separately and if you want to apply a custom tuning to multiple pianos, you will have work around this or you will end up changing the piano type.

Here you can see the file that is saved in the library and the piano type is the cabinet, with 18 pianos on the FP-90X

the piano designer app doesn't actually let you select the piano type as far as I can tell, so I view this "feature" as a bug.



[Linked Image]


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Let me see if I understand this correctly:
if I don't use the app, the piano designer and piano selection are essentially "disconnected", meaning you can design/tune as you wish and apply the same to multiple piano selections. But on the app, a piano design is saved along with the piano selection.

I used the app mainly to select pre-configured presets so I haven't used the library feature at all, but I think I will like the feature where the piano selection is also saved with the design. Essentially it is a snapshot of your piano selection + settings at one point in time, and this feature allows me to recall that.


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If you don’t use the app and use the piano designer app, it only applies to the currently selected piano.

After you make the change it asks you if you want to save the change.

There is no quick globally edit all pianos.

The pre configured presets are in the library. If you use those it is only temporary until you hit store to piano.

Those presets contain the piano type.

So for instance if you select stage grand on the keyboard and use a concert grand preset in the library it changes the stage grand to a concert grand.

The name displayed on the piano won’t change.

So you have 8 individually configurable pianos. They can be tuned differently and you could for instance make the default powered on piano a concert mellow.


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Another review comparison with the FP-60x



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Has anyone who owns the fp90x- owned the fp90 too.

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I have had my FP-90X for couple of weeks and an FP-90 for 3 years approx. They are in separate residences and we are in lockdown so I cannot do a direct comparison. I think the 90x is an improvement. I like the My Stage button and enjoy the Jazz Piano preset. I mostly just practice on the default Concert Grand. Due to where the pianos are, I use headphones with the FP-90 and can use the speakers on the 90x. The speakers are fine at about half volume.

The piano tone on the 90 is very pure and took me a week or two for my ears to adjust and accept it as piano. The 90x is more realistic and I liked it straight away (with the ears already trained to the 90). The demo songs at half volume play at acoustic grand levels and sound awesome.

The action is solid on both. Build quality is excellent on both.

I expect I will never have them in the same room but I might bring the headphones I normally use with the 90 to try with the 90x and compare. I am a bit disappointed there is no headphone optimisation setting or options in either piano, otherwise very happy.


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Quote
I am a bit disappointed there is no headphone optimisation setting or options in either piano

The way I understand it from the manual that the headphone jack is optimized for headphone output.

Quote
When using headphones, the FP-60X lets you apply a headphone 3D ambience effect. The FP-90X features headphone acoustic projection technology that lets you experience a more three-dimensional sound field.


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Thanks Purdy,

It was nitpicking on my part. The headphone output seems to add a small amount of ambience (reverb) and sounds fine as is. The fact that it has both size headphone sockets is a really nice feature.


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I'm hoping some owners can chime in and help me or tell me if there is something wrong with my unit.

I just got my Fp90X this week and I absolutely hate the way it's sounding.

One of my biggest issues is this obnoxious ringing when using the pedal that makes me want to rip my ears out. It is most noticable in the mid range and playing semitones. I have tried piano designer.. turned everything to the lowest settings and can't get it to even be affected. Is this normal? Is there a setting I can change?

Also, problem B. Some of my black keys are significantly louder to the point where when I play Amaj in the midrange all I hear is the C#. I can turn the volume down on C# about 70% and it fixes it mostly. However, it only happens when I am playing through speakers. If I use headphones I need to turn my c# back up to normal. (It's a few more keys than just that c# but it is definitely the most noticable)

I am planning on shipping it back out for return Monday which is really upsetting so I hope someone has an answer. I loved my FP30 and love the FP90 outside of the sound issues even more..

Here is a video link of my "ringing issue" for anyone that may be interested. It doesn't produce as ear piercing of a noise as in person but it is still appearant in the video

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmUlBpaJyufMpR_YsvKDwsIfr2xu


Thanks in advance

Last edited by Sporadic; 07/22/21 11:55 PM.
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Hi Sporadic,

Sounds like normal sympathetic resonance with the treble equaliser on max. You could try a factory reset in case some settings are messed up. I played with registration and then had to do a factory reset.

The loudspeaker issues sound like a more serious problem. Does the 3 band equaliser have any affect on the problem? Try the piano in a different spot in case there are standing waves amplifying some notes.


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I forgot I also did a firmware update to v1.03 as soon as I got the piano. Might help.

UPDATE HISTORY
[ Ver.1.03 ] APR 2021
Bug Fix
The following bug was fixed.
Ambience does not work properly in Ver.1.02.


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You might try to lower the sympathetic resonance settings in Piano Designer.

Also the ringing sound might just be the "disharmonic result" of 5 halftones sounding at the same time which naturally happens when you keep the sustain pedal pressed down

Did you try to play the five adjacent keys simultaneously without pedal?
Should sound disharmonic as well (minus the sympathetic resonance of course)

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That is how stringed instruments sound.

If turning down the full scale string resonance, duplex scale, and ambience doesn’t help then you should return it

Personally I think the sympathetic resonance from the undamped upper keys is a bit overdone.

And there is no separate setting for damper resonance or for those upper keys. Which I believe some kawai models have.

Also the equalizer might help a bit turning down the high end. By default I believe the eq high is at 4K I’ve lowered that

If you do return it be sure and send some feedback to Roland.


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Originally Posted by RoseGrower
Hi Sporadic,

Sounds like normal sympathetic resonance with the treble equaliser on max. You could try a factory reset in case some settings are messed up. I played with registration and then had to do a factory reset.

The loudspeaker issues sound like a more serious problem. Does the 3 band equaliser have any affect on the problem? Try the piano in a different spot in case there are standing waves amplifying some notes.

The equalizer can minimize it but I have to drastically reduce the mids/highs to the point where it ruins more than it fixes.
I did do a factory reset and it didn't seem to help either issue. I also did move the piano to the middle of the room to test the harmonics in the area as well and had the same result. I thought the key issue was a touch response thing but I even shut off touch response so all keys played at max velocity and it was still way louder than the white notes. I am going to plug in my studio monitors this weekend and see if its an issue with the output as well or just something related to the internal speakers and that frequency,

I should at least try the firmware update and see if it helps anything for me. Thank you!

Originally Posted by brennbaer
You might try to lower the sympathetic resonance settings in Piano Designer.

Also the ringing sound might just be the "disharmonic result" of 5 halftones sounding at the same time which naturally happens when you keep the sustain pedal pressed down

Did you try to play the five adjacent keys simultaneously without pedal?
Should sound disharmonic as well (minus the sympathetic resonance of course)

I did turn the sympathetic resonance all the way down and it didn't help. I was actually surprised that tweaking everything to an extreme low in the piano designer did not have much of an effect on the overall sound of the piano (outside of a couple of the settings)
Also, I only played the 5 adjacent keys with the pedal in that video to kind of make sure the video reproduced the sound I am hearing. I would almost be ok with it if it did it during that scenario as its very rare you would play semitones in that fashion at all let alone with a pedal. However, I cant even play Maj7th chord melodies with the pedal that have the 7 and 8 notes because it produces the terrible ringing tone. Or something like a Sus 2 chord where there is a half step tone involved.


Originally Posted by Purdy
That is how stringed instruments sound.

If turning down the full scale string resonance, duplex scale, and ambience doesn’t help then you should return it

Personally I think the sympathetic resonance from the undamped upper keys is a bit overdone.

And there is no separate setting for damper resonance or for those upper keys. Which I believe some kawai models have.

Also the equalizer might help a bit turning down the high end. By default I believe the eq high is at 4K I’ve lowered that

If you do return it be sure and send some feedback to Roland.

Thanks for the response, I will try to mess with it a little bit more and see If I can make it tolerable. I think im going to end up trying a Yamaha p515 and the Kawai Es920 although I am worried about both as I hear the Yamaha keys are so heavy you fatigue quickly and the Kawai keys are very light... I think the Roland Keys are perfect so I really would prefer to keep it.
I am not sure if I am just mad about the ringing or not but every time I play it I hate piano sounds more and more.
I really feel like the distinction between the chords is not good. When I go back to the Fp30x and I can hear the difference between two chords much more drastically. However, even though I wasn't initially in love with 90x key action over the 30... when I go back to the 30 now I realize how much better the key action on the 90 is.

Last edited by Sporadic; 07/23/21 09:47 AM.
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I for one don’t think a piano should be just tolerable. You should really enjoy it.

Have you tried the upright piano? It is not a pure acoustic modeled piano. Might help you hone in on the problem.


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I'm no piano engineer, but my 90x doesn't seem to sound like that video, pedals or not. I'm not sure if the things that stand out to me are the same that stand out to you, but I'd be inclined to say there's something loose on your specific unit. Take this opinion for what it's worth, which isn't much.

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To me it sounds okay, the resonances sound fine. Listening is always very subjective, but for me the C# does not stick out in volume (see fourth note in the waveform as well). I have recorded a comparison with my upright for what it's worth. Don't know if it helps you, but I thought it might be good to have the comparison.

Comparison FP90x vs upright

[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by Purdy
I for one don’t think a piano should be just tolerable. You should really enjoy it.

Have you tried the upright piano? It is not a pure acoustic modeled piano. Might help you hone in on the problem.

I agree, especially for that kind of money. I seem to be happier when using headphones. I'm wondering if all my complaints are specifically related to the frequency coming from the internal speakers. I haven't spent a lot of time with the upright sound. I did briefly but most of my time is spent with the first couple piano sounds. I will listen to the upright more in depth later and see if it seems the same or better relating to my issues.


Originally Posted by entonio
I'm no piano engineer, but my 90x doesn't seem to sound like that video, pedals or not. I'm not sure if the things that stand out to me are the same that stand out to you, but I'd be inclined to say there's something loose on your specific unit. Take this opinion for what it's worth, which isn't much.

I appreciate the info, even if I do decide to keep the 90X I think I'm going to return this one and have them send me a new one just to confirm it's not a specific issue related to my unit. I have a Yamaha P515 coming this week (I think lol). I will Test it next to that to at least see it I like the Roland more or not before I request a new unit instead of a straight return.

Originally Posted by Thomas B
To me it sounds okay, the resonances sound fine. Listening is always very subjective, but for me the C# does not stick out in volume (see fourth note in the waveform as well). I have recorded a comparison with my upright for what it's worth. Don't know if it helps you, but I thought it might be good to have the comparison.

Comparison FP90x vs upright

[Linked Image]

Thanks alot, I appreciate that. It does sound like the frequency is similar between the two through a microphone. Is the acoustic piano 2nd in that clip? After reading up on this issue, I think part of it is my overall pedal technique needs refining. I believe the FP30 was hiding more of the resonance which allowed me to pump the pedal less.
My C# in the midrange is definitely louder through the Roland speakers but not through headphones at all. I wonder if my DB meter would say the same thing as my ears are hearing.

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Or perhaps use a spectrum analyzer. Several free versions to take a look at it.

Again the only thing that I have noticed is the undamped upper string sympathetic resonance. And since some notes have two undamped keys that are multiple octaves away, they have a bit more ring to the.

Example, I believe it is g# to c where you will have two corresponding undamped keys ringing.

If you play Amaj you should get a louder A. I’ve read some various complaints on ringing from the supernatural modeling and pure acoustic modeling snd I wonder if it is this sympathetic resonance from the undamped keys.

However, I really notice this more on headphones or if it is really quiet on speakers. The speakers tend to hid some of these things in my opinion.

So things like damper noise don’t really bother me using the speakers but is very noticeable to me on earphones.

And it is nothing I really have paid too much attention to on acoustic pianos but they are generally noisier beasts to me anyway.

And one thing I’ve done is actually tune my FP90x snd one thing is discovered is that while the stretch tuning curve has a bit of randomness to it, the base piano sound tuning does too. It is entirely possible there is some built in loudness variation between keys.


Did you ever try playing through the line outs or recording internally and playing back?

That might help determine if there is an issue with the speakers.


FP-90x, PX-330
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