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I need to buy a new Stage Piano, primarily for home usage. I will most of the time use it as a midi-piano, but fore sure also play with the internal sounds sometimes.

I was thinking about the Nord Grand, but was very disappointed when testing it. For me personally, it feels too light weight. I play pop, boogie and a lot of gospel and is know as a "piano-destroyer", I need more weight in keys, more like a grand piano.

Any tips?
I have found Nord Piano 4 pretty cheap, only like 1900 euro. Do you think I would like it?

Yamaha p515 feels too cheap, but I am used to Yamaha. I loved the old CP300, but I think 2500 euro is to much for a 2007 years piano model..

Would love to get some guidance!!

Thanks in advance

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Kawai MP11SE?
Roland RD-2000?


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Yamaha CP88 has a pretty solid keybed, definitely on the heavy side. Reasonable choice of acoustic and electric pianos a great harpsichord and a mix of others less usable. Organs not that good. Piano sounds nothing more than average but the keyboard is the strong point.

I bought it after having tested more or less everything and I concur that Nords are light weighted (and expensive)

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Originally Posted by Swedishboogie
Yamaha p515 feels too cheap...

The keyboard action feels cheap, or the instrument overall?

James
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Kawai MP11SE?
Roland RD-2000?

By far, in terms of features & functions, quality and value for (a lot of) money - it's really hard to beat these two models.

The RD-2000 might actually be the last stop for stage piano shopping - I don't believe there is anything this stage piano can't do. But oh:
- It does not have a music stand (so what?)
- It takes a VERY steep learning curve to learn how to use this instrument effectively. I mean, even basic functions need a bit of learning
- It's a serious stage AND studio machine
- It has 2 sound expansion capabilities allowing you to use sounds from other Roland instruments, even past models

The MP11SE amazes in key action quality (not that the PHA-50 is inferior). The warm SK-EX sounds are to die for. It's VERY heavy. It's probably the strongest and sturdily built stage piano currently. This also requires quite a bit of learning, although not to the levels of RD.

Those are for starters. You can delve deeper into specifics and both these models will amaze you.

From those starter thinking points, do you have further questions or areas - that will help the experts here to guide you, and have a great discussion!



The P515 is not a stage piano. It CAN be used on stage - doesn't mean it is.


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For a "piano destroyer" I think the action of the MP11SE would hold up very nicely. I play classical on mine (some bigger romantic rep) and it's a great action. I also use it as a MIDI controller and it works very well for that.


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MP11SE too much ?

Perhaps the MP7SE.

I had the MP11SE and for various reasons switched to the MP7SE and find very little difference between the two in terms of sound and key actions.

Truth is .... I believe I like the action on the MP7SE a bit better. I found the MP11SE action a bit on the "slow" side.

Nothing scientific .... just my sense.

AND .... let's not forget the difference in price.


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I love the Nord Grand! I would also imagine the action of MP7se is going to be identical as the Nord Grand. While I know Nord says they had the Nord Grand action customized I'd have to think Kawai didn't change that much for the action they made for Nord grand. I'm huge Nord fan and for a stage piano I would go with a Nord if you want heavier action the Nord Piano 4, Nord Piano 5, and Stage 3 have the fatar action which feels heavier than the Nord Grand.

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Originally Posted by Sebs
I love the Nord Grand! I would also imagine the action of MP7se is going to be identical as the Nord Grand. While I know Nord says they had the Nord Grand action customized I'd have to think Kawai didn't change that much for the action they made for Nord grand.
I think the MP7SE version is graded and the Nord version is not...?

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Sebs
I love the Nord Grand! I would also imagine the action of MP7se is going to be identical as the Nord Grand. While I know Nord says they had the Nord Grand action customized I'd have to think Kawai didn't change that much for the action they made for Nord grand.
I think the MP7SE version is graded and the Nord version is not...?


Here are the differences:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...-action-as-kawai-rh3-here-the-proof.html

You have participated in the discussion too anotherscott!


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Originally Posted by Swedishboogie
I play pop, boogie and a lot of gospel and is know as a "piano-destroyer", I need more weight in keys, more like a grand piano.

Does this mean those styles are known for destroying keyboards or is that your stage name? I'm not being sarcastic I just never knew that or didn't know if you were saying "I'm known as a piano destroyer" which would be pretty cool! haha

If it's the former then wouldn't Nord be a good choice, aren't they known for gigging and being workhorses?

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The Nord Grand would be a very good gigging stage piano but not something I would choose for home use or use in a recording studio where portability is less critical. The Nord Grand's balanced hammer weight action and lack of letoff simulation would render it a less realistic piano simulation than a Kawai MP7SE and even less realistic emulation of a grand action than a Kawai MP11SE.


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Both. At the first moment I liked it, but after playing for awhile, it feels more cheap that Nord Grand.

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Haha no, just that I play pretty hard and use lot of the 88 keys when playing..
In my youth I destroyed my first acoustic piano because a lot of "hard practice"
It's a joke, but still, I am not a soft piano player. Fast, hard and a lot of keys played in my style.

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I have found a used kawai es8 priced 600 euro. How about that one? At least til I found something I really like, like a re-release of the CP300..

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Originally Posted by Swedishboogie
I have found a used kawai es8 priced 600 euro. How about that one? At least til I found something I really like, like a re-release of the CP300..

I would seriously consider the MP11SE in your case.

I have heard of another hulk handed individual who actually broke a fairly robust plastic action (snapped it clean) during practice (I won't mention the board before you ask, as I like to think that the individual in question was heavy handed). With the MP11SE, you are getting a wooden action with probably the best attempt to replicate an acoustic action in any slab keyboard. It's also weighty, which means you feel more like you're playing on a piano (no vibrations like you get on some light-weight boards).

The RD2000 action is of similar weight to the MP7SE but has a different but quite nice feel. What lets it down is the user interface on the right hand side of the board --- sound selection--- which is just not well thought out (although paradoxically, the left-hand-side of the board is awesome); also, I think you need to be a fiddler (tweeker or sounds) to get anything approaching a decent acoustic piano sound out of it. One needs to invest in a headphone amp, and/or a nice expensive powered amp or other system (hifi) to bring out the benefits of modeled sound and its resonances. There are some users on this forum who have reported positive results after much travail, e.g., Bruce from Philly.

Other boards which have a robust feel include the V-piano (sometimes they go used for a decent price), although you'd now have to play a VST like Pianoteq or Garritan CFX grand to enjoy the most modern quality piano experience.

The Nord Piano 4 isn't as nice as the Nord Grand---I've played both in testing for a good chunk of time.
The CP88 has awful acoustic piano sounds, and a very fast action (somewhat unnaturally fast for a piano). The e-pianos are fairly nice though. Good gigging board, but ultimately would require a VST to sound like a modern digital acoustic piano. Preferred the Nord Grand in all areas to the CP88 tbh (despite the Nord Grand not really feeling like an acoustic to play), as the CP88 was right next to the Nord Grand and the RD2000, I side-by-side tested them.

I have an MP7SE, and to me, it beats all those boards when all attributes are considered in the round (especially for gigging when compared to the MP11SE). The MP11SE having the Grand Feel action would make it more robust for your hulkish digits ;-), and a more suitable home board.


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Originally Posted by dmd
MP11SE too much ?

Perhaps the MP7SE.

I had the MP11SE and for various reasons switched to the MP7SE and find very little difference between the two in terms of sound and key actions.

Truth is .... I believe I like the action on the MP7SE a bit better. I found the MP11SE action a bit on the "slow" side.

Nothing scientific .... just my sense.

AND .... let's not forget the difference in price.

IMO, the Grand Feel 1 is slower than the RHIII action. I think the new Grand Feel III action might have rectified this but if you're talking about other aspects of an acoustic action, I think the Grand Feel 1 is better than the RHIII. The thing is, if I were playing Prelude/Angry Young Man every night in the pubs and bars, I'd go for the CP4 or CP88, as they have a much faster feel than most other decent digital slabs (I'd just use a VST to play at home with). From what the OP is describing, I doubt the CP4/CP88/MP7SE/ES8 etc would stand the pounding.


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Originally Posted by Swedishboogie
I have found a used kawai es8 priced 600 euro. How about that one? At least til I found something I really like, like a re-release of the CP300..

PM sent.


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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by Swedishboogie
I have found a used kawai es8 priced 600 euro. How about that one? At least til I found something I really like, like a re-release of the CP300..

I would seriously consider the MP11SE in your case.

I have heard of another hulk handed individual who actually broke a fairly robust plastic action (snapped it clean) during practice (I won't mention the board before you ask, as I like to think that the individual in question was heavy handed). With the MP11SE, you are getting a wooden action with probably the best attempt to replicate an acoustic action in any slab keyboard. It's also weighty, which means you feel more like you're playing on a piano (no vibrations like you get on some light-weight boards).

I tend to agree.

If you are going to "beat" on it, the MP11SE would probably be able to handle it better than most.


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You might want to check the Korg models as well, including the B1 and D1 stage pianos. There are reviews and comments on them here and there.


Pianoteq + Korg C1.

I shall be "thankful" for this decent alternative to an upright piano. Hallelujah.
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I’m surprised nobody has brought up Dexibell.

The Vivo S9 is certainly expensive especially with no speakers. But I think a good compromise would be the S7 Pro M. You can get that for $2500 new.

IDK what your price range is, but you might look at some vid reviews of that piano.

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Yeah this sub-forum can be summarized to "buy this Yamaha or that Kawai". Talk about a duopoly hehe.

Btw, does Dexibell use Fatar actions? I haven't heard good things about that.

Last edited by meghdad; 05/02/21 06:12 AM.

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Swedishboogie
Yamaha p515 feels too cheap...

The keyboard action feels cheap, or the instrument overall?

James
x

The P-515 does not ‘feel’ and/or look cheap; that is unless you’re expecting a concert grand experience for 1.5K.

Yes, you heard me, a lawn-mower can cost more than a P-515, but I wonder if any of y’all complain about how cheap that there mower feels!

Expectations, people, they need to be proportional!

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Originally Posted by meghdad
Yeah this sub-forum can be summarized to "buy this Yamaha or that Kawai". Talk about a duopoly hehe.

Btw, does Dexibell use Fatar actions? I haven't heard good things about that.

:-) I for one like to keep an open mind, because in the digital age, there are SO MANY options for us consumers. I believe the Dexibell is a smash hit in Europe and the rest of the world, but not so much here in the US. Dexibell does use Fatar actions - and I've generally read good things about the actions.

I even considered buying one just to experiment with. What didn't convince me to make the purchase were the sounds really. Admittedly, I was too immersed and well used-to Yamaha and Kawai sounds. The farthest I've ventured out to were ROland and Korg sound engines. When comparing with these, and looking at the price points - I thought that I'd be happy exploring the brands I am used to.

In the end, I became the opposite of an open minded guy - closed, narrow mind :-) In my defense, I did give Dexibell serious thought, and I even contacted @PianoManChuck (who is a member here) for a quote, which he was very kind to provide.

In summary, I have read nothing significantly negative about Dexibell.


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Dexibell lists their key actions in the specifications in "plain English" i.e. in actual Fatar model names -- unlike some other manufacturers.

The stage pianos with speakers have the TP/100 due to weight and/or space.

There's also TP/40 and TP-400 W.

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I don't know what action goes into a Dexibell ...
Originally Posted by mmathew
Does Dexibell use Fatar actions? I haven't heard good things about that.
I've never seen a Dexibell, and I don't think I've ever tried any keyboard having a Fatar action.
But the latter was universally panned here over a span of many years.

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Let me guess, the Dexibell uses 1,000 layers per key, and the samples are so long that one can hold a key/note for ten minutes straight without hearing any looping?

Still, it uses a Fatar action, and no, it’s not better than a comparable Yamaha or Kawai!

Yes, it’s true, anything less than Yamaha/Kawai doesn’t cut it for us when it comes to the ‘ultimate’ piano experience. Now, if you’re looking for added functionality, sounds, effects, and/or a screen that goes ‘full black’, there’s always Korg; which is very good as a ‘pure’ piano, too; just not as good as a Yamaha/Kawai!

It’s not the action in isolation, 1 million layers in isolation, space-age speakers, and by extension, it’s not the engine in isolation; I’m talking about the cohesive whole, and how Yamawai excel(s) at this!

IMHO!

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Originally Posted by Pete14
I’m talking about the cohesive whole, and how Yamawai excel(s) at this!
Hahahaha!

I hereby designate you Yamawai Pete, the official Yamawai representative to Piano World! grin


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What the heck is a 'layer'? Never understood it.


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As a recently sworn-in “Yamawai representative”, I will answer your question regarding a ‘layer’.

In a nutshell, a layer is a ‘gradient level’ that, when piled up one on top of the other, leads to multiple ‘layers’ or velocity steps. If we apply the ‘more=better’ equation this would translate into ‘better’ because there’s ‘more’ of it.

The gist of it is that more layers yield a broader dynamic range because there are ‘more’ -velocity- levels/steps piled one on top of the other to ‘choose from’. I do not fully agree with this theory, yet others swear by it. IMHO!

Conversely, less layers -theoretically- lead to a narrower dynamic range because there’s ‘less’ to choose from; hence, it does not reconcile with the “more=better” equation, nor does it explain why Einstein disowned quantum mechanics because his relative ‘math’ could not explain how a particle could be entangled at a distance with another particle!



I hope this clears things up for you,

Yamawai Pete!

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Originally Posted by meghdad
Yeah this sub-forum can be summarized to "buy this Yamaha or that Kawai". Talk about a duopoly hehe.

Btw, does Dexibell use Fatar actions? I haven't heard good things about that.

I think that the Dexibel Vivo S9 is a fantastic instrument: love the magnetic sliders and the sheer functions that board can do.

When you buy a digital, you have your own way of weighting the various attributes.
It seems to me that the main reason to choose an MP11SE over the Vivo S9 would be that you want the best action that can take a good pounding. Both are fabulous boards in their own way (different flavours of stage piano); however, what the competitors of Yamaha and Kawai lack is that top-draw piano action (a 7-9 out of 10 digital action).

Fatar actions are good compared with other non Yamaha/Kawai actions. In my view, Fatar actions have gotten a lot better than they were 10-15 years ago. The action on the Nord Piano 4 I found passable: somewhere just below the Yamaha NW–GH action. I'd place the Fatar actions in the 5-6.5/10 range: easily good enough for gigging.

If you were e.g., gigging with the board and didn't intend home/studio use for solo piano (or simply weren't after an acoustic feel), then the top-draw action might be less valuable. Then, the likes of the Dexibel models, Kurzweil, Korg (GrandStage, SV2, Kronos), Nord (Piano 4 and Stage III) all suddenly become a lot more competitive.

Imagine if a Dexibel Vivo S9, a Crumar Seven, a Viscount Legend 70 or a Korg Kronos suddenly came with a Grand Feel action!
***I know I for one would want to test such models, where previously, they weren't 'piano' enough.

The Nord Grand did feel even better than the Nord Piano 4; however, despite having a fantastic sound, I felt that the Nord Grand didn't quite feel piano like in dynamic expression.

Thus, I feel it's not just that the instrument has a good action, but how the instrument feels to play acoustic piano on: a mixture of action, and how well other aspects of the instrument complement the action.


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Originally Posted by Pete14
As a recently sworn-in “Yamawai representative”, I will answer your question regarding a ‘layer’.

In a nutshell, a layer is a ‘gradient level’ that, when piled up one on top of the other, leads to multiple ‘layers’ or velocity steps. If we apply the ‘more=better’ equation this would translate into ‘better’ because there’s ‘more’ of it.

The gist of it is that more layers yield a broader dynamic range because there are ‘more’ -velocity- levels/steps piled one on top of the other to ‘choose from’. I do not fully agree with this theory, yet others swear by it. IMHO!

Conversely, less layers -theoretically- lead to a narrower dynamic range because there’s ‘less’ to choose from; hence, it does not reconcile with the “more=better” equation, nor does it explain why Einstein disowned quantum mechanics because his relative ‘math’ could not explain how a particle could be entangled at a distance with another particle!



I hope this clears things up for you,

Yamawai Pete!

OK - so in the VST world, if VSL are saying that they have "4000 samples per key" - while it may not directly translate to # of layers - the gist is that they have enough data to translate a key press into a near realistic tone...

## Apologies for the hijack, OP and others


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Originally Posted by mmathew
What the heck is a 'layer'? Never understood it.

Google: "velocity levels" sampling


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Originally Posted by SeaDrive
Originally Posted by Pete14
I’m talking about the cohesive whole, and how Yamawai excel(s) at this!
Hahahaha!

I hereby designate you Yamawai Pete, the official Yamawai representative to Piano World! grin

Kawai-Yami Pete sounds better.


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Originally Posted by mmathew
[quote=Pete14]As a recently sworn-in “Yamawai representative”, I will answer your question regarding a ‘layer’.

## Apologies for the hijack, OP and others

We are in danger of reigniting the debate about: does having a greater number of velocity levels make for a better piano sample?

But to sum up that debate: go play the instrument, buy the one you like, regardless of the tech specs, as there are so many aspects to sampling, that no one 'attribute' is the whole caboodle. Yes, more velocity layers is beneficial, no it's not so important that everyone plays multi-gigabyte VST's instead of buying from Yamaha or Kawai.

Last edited by Doug M.; 05/02/21 10:23 AM.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I don't know what action goes into a Dexibell ...
Originally Posted by mmathew
Does Dexibell use Fatar actions? I haven't heard good things about that.
I've never seen a Dexibell, and I don't think I've ever tried any keyboard having a Fatar action.
But the latter was universally panned here over a span of many years.

Dexibell digital pianos have Fatar actions. Fatar makes good organ and synth-style actions. Their hammer weight actions are ok, but not competitive with the better "digital" piano actions from K., R., or Y.


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There's a US$4000 Dexibell at my local store, I'll give it a try and report back...

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Also, my Korg G1 keybed was better than anything in the US$2000 that I tried, and the 80W speakers out sounded the rest...

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Okay, admittedly I’m nobody to listen to. I’ve only been screwing around with piano not quite a year and I’m still a novice in keyboard discussions, but I have been reading up/listening to reviews quite a bit over the last few months because I am in the market for a piano and was on the verge of buying an S7 and would have had they been in stock at that precise moment.

So, I’m a bit familiar with the low opinion of the Fatar keyboards. However I think the S9 should get a waiver because Dexibell works with Fatar to customize the keyboard for the S9 and it is supposed to be unlike any other Fatar keyboards.

I have never had the chance to play one, and since I am cutting my teeth on a Casio Privia PX-110 I’m sure I would be amazed at the feel of any decent keyboard. So I’m not the guy to know.

I don’t think I can say the same about the S7, which was part of the reason I backed out of buying one. That and having an S7 would just make me wish I bought an S9 instead even though I have no business spending that much money on a piano.

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Originally Posted by risusSardonicus
Okay, admittedly I’m nobody to listen to. I’ve only been screwing around with piano not quite a year and I’m still a novice in keyboard discussions, but I have been reading up/listening to reviews quite a bit over the last few months because I am in the market for a piano and was on the verge of buying an S7 and would have had they been in stock at that precise moment.

So, I’m a bit familiar with the low opinion of the Fatar keyboards. However I think the S9 should get a waiver because Dexibell works with Fatar to customize the keyboard for the S9 and it is supposed to be unlike any other Fatar keyboards.

I have never had the chance to play one, and since I am cutting my teeth on a Casio Privia PX-110 I’m sure I would be amazed at the feel of any decent keyboard. So I’m not the guy to know.

I don’t think I can say the same about the S7, which was part of the reason I backed out of buying one. That and having an S7 would just make me wish I bought an S9 instead even though I have no business spending that much money on a piano.

Hi risusSardonicus,

In order to come to a sane decision, it helps to identify both the attributes and what you really value. We can construct a list of attributes from a combination of the tech specs and ones own testing experience eg, you can add subjective attributes such as how much you like the overall playing experience etc.

Obviously the list even comparing the S9 to something like the MP7 SE is going to be long: both boards do a lot. One can group the attributes into sets and line up matching attributes.

Ideally you test the instruments so that you can give a relative score out of 10.

When you have your long list, you sit down and think hard about what you need, what you might need in future, what is nice to have, and which attributes you just don't need.

Next, you remove any attributes that you don't need, and many of the nice to haves. How? Well, you weight the importance of the attributes eg out of 10.

Action: level * weighting = score
Sound quality : level * weighting = score
Sound tone: level * weighting = score
Weight of board: level * weighting = score
Quality of core sounds: level * weighting = score
Number of sounds: level * weighting = score
User interface: level * weighting = score
User interface in live gigging conditions: level * weighting = score
Effects & Sound edit: level * weighting = score
MIDI controller abilities: level * weighting = score
Value for money: level * weighting = score
Build quality: level * weighting = score
Splits, morphing and Layering: level * weighting = score
Sample attributes: level * weighting = score
Time taken to turn on: level * weighting = score

The list can be as long as you like, but you need to reduce it to things that really matter to your needs. So if you're not gigging, maybe a heavier board is more sturdy and better than one that feels a bit light. If you are most likely to practise on headphones, maybe inbuilt speakers are unnecessary. If you are 90% of the time going to be playing acoustic piano, maybe layering 8 sounds is unimportant.

So if you consider your own values, you can create a smaller set of attributes and weight them.

Weightings....
Action = 9/10
Sound tone of acoustic piano = 7/10
Sound quality of acoustic piano = 8/10
User interface : 6/10
Number of quality core sounds = 7/10
Total Number of sounds = 3/10
Quality of harpsichord sound = 8/10

We can then score an instrument

Action = 6*9
Sound tone of acoustic piano = 8* 7
Sound quality of acoustic piano = 7*8
User interface : 5* 6
Number of quality core sounds = 8* 7
Total Number of sounds = 10*3
Quality of harpsichord sound = 7*8

This allows you to total the score, and compare two different instruments or more according to your needs and values.

Last edited by Doug M.; 05/03/21 05:14 AM.

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Originally Posted by mmathew
What the heck is a 'layer'? Never understood it.
As you know, on an acoustic piano, when you press a key with different force you'll get a different sound timbre, not just a different volume of sound. For example, the 'pianissimo' sound timbre is not just a 'fortissimo' sound timbre with lower volume. It's a totally different type of sound (usually much rounder and warmer)... And from pianissimo to fortissimo, the palette of subtle tonal changes could be very large, depending on the type and quality of the acoustic instrument.

Now, on an acoustic piano there is no concept of layers. If you keep pressing the same key you'll get a slightly different sound timbre at each repetition, because the hammer hits an already vibrating string, therefore adding new vibrations to old vibrations, thus generating a different sound timbre.

In the digital world, we can use up to 127 values (because of MIDI limitations) to map the force/velocity of a "key press" into a sound. In a sample-based piano engine, there are samples for these mappings (not necessarily for all of them) and these samples are called "velocity layers". More velocity layers per key => sound timbre more faithful to the original in all the dynamic ppp->fff range.

Currently, what happens in most DP internal piano engines is that the manufacturer want to save costs as much as possible, so they store just a few velocity layers per key (usually 3-4 per key in middle-range models, 5-6 in top-range ones). The remaining layers usually are emulated with clever filtering and interpolation techniques.

In the VST world, ~10 layers per key is considered the bare minimum to get a decent palette of tonal changes. Some examples: the "Galaxy Vintage D" VST has 13 velocity layers per key. The "Ivory II American Concert D" VST has 20 layers per key. They also use techniques to emulate the missing layers, so that you should not hear a sudden transition from a layer to the next one, if you play a smooth crescendo or decrescendo.

Pianoteq generates algorithmically all the layers, so theoretically it's like you have the max amount of layers you can get in the limits of the standard MIDI specifications.

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Is it possible to determine the layers count per key by analyzing using something like Audacity ? Not that it matters per se, just for the heck of it.


Pianoteq + Korg C1.

I shall be "thankful" for this decent alternative to an upright piano. Hallelujah.
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Originally Posted by meghdad
Is it possible to determine the layers count per key by analyzing using something like Audacity ? Not that it matters per se, just for the heck of it.

That was done in the past for several models: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1365103/the-dpbsd-project.html

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Quote
So, I’m a bit familiar with the low opinion of the Fatar keyboards. However I think the S9 should get a waiver because Dexibell works with Fatar to customize the keyboard for the S9 and it is supposed to be unlike any other Fatar keyboards.
Clavia worked with Kawai to modify the RHIII actuon for the Nord Grand. The request was to make it balanced weight instead of graded weight and to eliminate letoff simulation. These changes make it an inferior version of the RHIII action for piano (but improved for electric pianos, and somewhat, but not alot improved for organs.

I would not make any assumptions about what was modified for Dexibell with respect to the stock Fatar action, or that it makes it a better piano action.


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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Quote
So, I’m a bit familiar with the low opinion of the Fatar keyboards. However I think the S9 should get a waiver because Dexibell works with Fatar to customize the keyboard for the S9 and it is supposed to be unlike any other Fatar keyboards.
Clavia worked with Kawai to modify the RHIII actuon for the Nord Grand. The request was to make it balanced weight instead of graded weight and to eliminate letoff simulation. These changes make it an inferior version of the RHIII action for piano (but improved for electric pianos, and somewhat, but not alot improved for organs.

I would not make any assumptions about what was modified for Dexibell with respect to the stock Fatar action, or that it makes it a better piano action.

In my experience, it's a dangerous thing to make assumptions based on whatever anybody says or passes along, as often the actual in-store test provides a contrary answer.

Such was my experience when playing the CLP685: I found it surprisingly on-top in the cabinet top-end battle (not comparing against hybrids obviously). Before hand, I'd read some negative comments and pretty much assumed they were accurate.

One of the problems with many stores is that they don't stock examples of really great boards such as the Dexibel, Kurzweil, Kawai range. I'd love to live near enough to visit Bonners just to be able to get a good test of the Dexibel Fatar action. I certainly wouldn't risk purchasing one without a test, as so few people have actually got experience playing them here.

What I can report about the Nord Grand, is that yes, the action indeed feels lighter than the ES8 which I compared it to. That said, it's still a fairly nice action: a notch or three above the Nord Piano 4.


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You may not care whether or not your digital piano action is graded weight. The OP also may not. Graded weight actions are more realistic and better translate to an acoustic piano. For non-classical styles, even having a hammer weight action at all is negotiable.

I have played a Dexibell digital piano btw, and have considered purchasing their midi module, but have no interest in existing graded weight Fatar actions.


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