2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
59 members (Boboulus, c++, Bobby Simons, anotherscott, Abdol, brdwyguy, Blague, Calavera, 10 invisible), 341 guests, and 457 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,691
E
EPW Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,691
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
OK, as long as nobody says "Mac gets the Pianoteq". smile
Originally Posted by Ralphiano
Since I got it right first, I get the Steinway.

clothearednicompo gets the Medeli.

Now would I do such a thing wink


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
mmathew #3112409 04/30/21 05:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
E
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
Originally Posted by mmathew
Acoustic or DP? https://soundcloud.com/basement_pianist/test-audio-rec/s-rnGVudIY7K8
## Kindly excuse the amateurish, you-have-no-idea-what-you-are-doing kind of playing eek ##

It sounds too clean and level to be acoustic.

Acoustic is muddy with any amount of pedal.

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 614
mmathew Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 614
Originally Posted by EinLudov
Originally Posted by mmathew
Acoustic or DP? https://soundcloud.com/basement_pianist/test-audio-rec/s-rnGVudIY7K8
## Kindly excuse the amateurish, you-have-no-idea-what-you-are-doing kind of playing eek ##

It sounds too clean and level to be acoustic.

Acoustic is muddy with any amount of pedal.

Well, there was absolutely no pedal used in this one, but I get what you're saying.


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
G. K. Chesterton
mmathew #3112562 05/01/21 10:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,311
E
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,311
Originally Posted by mmathew
Indeed it is a DP, and thank you for sharing your observations and thought process :-)

This was recorded on an RD-2000. A global reverb and delay added.

You shouldn't have added the delay - that was an immediate giveaway.

mwf #3112821 05/02/21 09:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 409
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 409
Originally Posted by mwf
I can tell 100% in any recording if it's a DP or AP, no exceptions.

Okay, prove it. Here's 30 seconds of 16 bit 44.1kHz stereo wav audio.
Which is this then? Digital or acoustic?

piano 1.wav

And what about this? Digital or acoustic?

piano 2.wav

Remember, might be a deliberate trick question!

Maybe both are acoustic...

Maybe both are digital...

Maybe a digital piano was being performed live out loud in a room, recorded acoustically through the air via a microphone setup (not direct line output)...

Maybe acoustic piano was recorded live in quiet studio and tracks were carefully edited / cleaned up of extraneous noises in post production so it sounds super-clean like a digital piano, which could also confuse you.

Can you honestly tell 100% just from listening for realistic quality of piano tone / timbre alone?
I think beyond 50/50 guesswork, you require certain other given conditions to remain consistently the same for every case so you can actually discriminate any differences reliably. Once those frames of reference are deliberately moved, your previous sonic expectations can be fooled.

mmathew #3112937 05/02/21 03:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,722
C
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,722
Those are good sound snippets for the challenge. 👍

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,313
M
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,313
Originally Posted by propianist
Originally Posted by mwf
I can tell 100% in any recording if it's a DP or AP, no exceptions.

Okay, prove it. Here's 30 seconds of 16 bit 44.1kHz stereo wav audio.
Which is this then? Digital or acoustic?

piano 1.wav

And what about this? Digital or acoustic?

piano 2.wav

Remember, might be a deliberate trick question!

Maybe both are acoustic...

Maybe both are digital...

Maybe a digital piano was being performed live out loud in a room, recorded acoustically through the air via a microphone setup (not direct line output)...

Maybe acoustic piano was recorded live in quiet studio and tracks were carefully edited / cleaned up of extraneous noises in post production so it sounds super-clean like a digital piano, which could also confuse you.

Can you honestly tell 100% just from listening for realistic quality of piano tone / timbre alone?
I think beyond 50/50 guesswork, you require certain other given conditions to remain consistently the same for every case so you can actually discriminate any differences reliably. Once those frames of reference are deliberately moved, your previous sonic expectations can be fooled.
They both sound acoustic to me, with the first one having less room sound/different mic position. That's because they sound a bit detuned. I do think that with a lot of work, one could achieve this kind of sound with a digital post-production, but you don't mention doing any of that.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
mmathew #3112974 05/02/21 05:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,666
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,666
I don't know if they are acoustic, but I'm pretty sure they both are NOT from an internal digital piano engine from Roland, Kawai or Yamaha.

The first recording looks more like an old upright piano sound.

mmathew #3112979 05/02/21 06:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,722
C
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,722
I also thought that 1 is upright and 2 is grand but beyond that...no idea. Either one could be real or VST.

mmathew #3113004 05/02/21 08:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,225
A
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,225
Originally Posted by mmathew
HERE WE GO AGAIN - Round #1128

If someone posted an audio recording of their playing, would you be able to tell if the instrument was a digital or acoustic?

- What are the things that give it away?

- Would it make a difference if the DP audio was recorded by (ambient/close mics) vs. (onboard recording) vs. (computer recording)?

- Would it matter to you?

In photography, it's pretty easy to identify a film photograph (even if it was digitally printed) vs. a digital photograph? In some cases, it might require a closer look, but it's easy to tell.

That easy with recorded piano audio?

Your piano never sounds the same twice. The notes you play always sound different.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
mmathew #3113006 05/02/21 08:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 420
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 420
In 2009 a Roland V piano demo was already capable of fooling you, the problem is when you play live. No dp can fool you live.

mmathew #3113008 05/02/21 08:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,804
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,804
#1 sounds like an acoustic, poorly mic'd.

#2 is very clean, so I think it's a line out recording of a digital piano (or maybe a VST).

mmathew #3113258 05/03/21 02:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,204
E
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,204
Sounded like the same DP with different settings

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 26
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by propianist
Originally Posted by mwf
I can tell 100% in any recording if it's a DP or AP, no exceptions.

Okay, prove it. Here's 30 seconds of 16 bit 44.1kHz stereo wav audio.
Which is this then? Digital or acoustic?

piano 1.wav

And what about this? Digital or acoustic?

piano 2.wav

Remember, might be a deliberate trick question!

Maybe both are acoustic...

Maybe both are digital...

Maybe a digital piano was being performed live out loud in a room, recorded acoustically through the air via a microphone setup (not direct line output)...

Maybe acoustic piano was recorded live in quiet studio and tracks were carefully edited / cleaned up of extraneous noises in post production so it sounds super-clean like a digital piano, which could also confuse you.

Can you honestly tell 100% just from listening for realistic quality of piano tone / timbre alone?
I think beyond 50/50 guesswork, you require certain other given conditions to remain consistently the same for every case so you can actually discriminate any differences reliably. Once those frames of reference are deliberately moved, your previous sonic expectations can be fooled.


1 acoustic
2 digital

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,225
A
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,225
Originally Posted by propianist
Originally Posted by mwf
I can tell 100% in any recording if it's a DP or AP, no exceptions.

Okay, prove it. Here's 30 seconds of 16 bit 44.1kHz stereo wav audio.
Which is this then? Digital or acoustic?

piano 1.wav

And what about this? Digital or acoustic?

piano 2.wav

Remember, might be a deliberate trick question!

Maybe both are acoustic...

Maybe both are digital...

Maybe a digital piano was being performed live out loud in a room, recorded acoustically through the air via a microphone setup (not direct line output)...

Maybe acoustic piano was recorded live in quiet studio and tracks were carefully edited / cleaned up of extraneous noises in post production so it sounds super-clean like a digital piano, which could also confuse you.

Can you honestly tell 100% just from listening for realistic quality of piano tone / timbre alone?
I think beyond 50/50 guesswork, you require certain other given conditions to remain consistently the same for every case so you can actually discriminate any differences reliably. Once those frames of reference are deliberately moved, your previous sonic expectations can be fooled.


Both have been performed on the same upright. A crappy one. Most likely made in North Amercia. If it was in the middle east I'd say made in Russia.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
mmathew #3113542 05/04/21 11:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,804
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,804
@propianist: Okay, it has been two days. Where's the revelation?

mmathew #3113551 05/04/21 12:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,722
C
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,722
We are still missing the answer from mwf.

mmathew #3113579 05/04/21 02:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,747
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,747


Me on YouTube

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, NI Giant, Sampletekk White Grand, Choc. Audio Steinbach, and a few more. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 409
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 409
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
@propianist: Okay, it has been two days. Where's the revelation?

MacMacMac, you'll just have to WaitWaitWait...!

mwf is the person whose very bold claim initiated this challenge to prove otherwise, so we'll give him plenty of due time to recite whatever "eenie meenie miney mo" guessing routine he uses to derive his answer. The world awaits with baited breath...

mmathew #3113625 05/04/21 04:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,804
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,804
mwf has a 50% of randomly guessing the first recording.
And he likewise has a 50% of guessing the second recording.

This gives him a 25% of guessing both correctly ... without even listening.
If that happens, does that prove his bold claim? I say no.

By the way, didn't I make a similar (but less bold) claim earlier?
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Pianoteq aside ... it's usually easy to tell the difference, especially when using comparing an acoustic with the native sound of a digital piano.
It's often more difficult to distinguish a good VST from an acoustic. But not always difficult ... because some VSTs don't measure up.
OTOH, when listening live there's no comparison.
I did listen ... but I don't think that changes things. If I get both right, that still doesn't prove anything. frown

Page 2 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Clavinova CLP100 no sound on left
by Tony Arnold - 06/24/21 10:33 AM
Recommend me a stand for my Kawai ES920
by Jojovan - 06/24/21 08:42 AM
pianoteq keystroke sound control
by ronlefebvre - 06/23/21 10:16 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics207,679
Posts3,106,848
Members101,893
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5