Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum A Yamaha sub-line, or a total counterfeit?

So, do you think this is a Yamaha sub-line or a total counterfeit? Besides the fact that the screwed on logo looks soooo sketchy, I've never seen a Yamaha logo in that font (even super old ones).

Yamaha MIKI G530 Grand Piano for sale on CL

The Yamaha Miki logo:


A regular Yamaha logo for comparison:


I should add, I'm not looking for a new piano, I was just poking around CL for fun. Also, it looks like this is being sold by a dealer so maybe the piano is legit and just really old? (I note it has only two pedals, I wonder when Yamaha made three pedals standard on all grands....)

ETA:
Ok, wait, I did a search in Japanese and found this photo of a used piano for sale in Japan:



A Japanese piano dealer's site said that MIKI was an "in-house brand" made by Yamaha and sold as Miki from 1924-1994.

So, who screwed on the fake Yamaha logo on that piano for sale on CL? Pretty shady if you ask me!

ETA #2: that screwed on logo is not just shady, it's so poorly done I would be worried about a piano that was "refurbished" by someone who thought doing the logo like that was a good idea!!!

/rant

Wasn't "Eterna" another Yamaha line, possibly a joint venture with Pearl River? Yamaha dealers around here probably know.

Larry.

Yamaha has made other brands over the years, but I have no knowledge about MIKI.

Eterna was a brand made by Yamaha. Cable-Nelson is a more recent brand owned and made by Yamaha.

I'd be suspicious of the Yamaha logo on the fallboard being a plastic decal installed with screws. I don't know, I just don't think I'd want it at any price, because something just seems suspicious about it.

Didn't know Yamaha made a "house brand" although many dealers sell "house brands". And, I've never heard of a Miki.

It is just not authentic looking enough for me. Of course, owning a real Yamaha grand may have something to do with that opinion.

Rick

And I don't have a problem with "house brands" or whatever they should be called in English. A friend of a friend has a Cable-Nelson grand that's really nice. And as I poke around Japanese websites, a fair number of Miki pianos come up.

I just don't like the obvious deception of that CL piano.


Rick, exactly.

What are house brands?

This is a great question, and hopefully someone more knowledgeable will comment.... Having said that

So, I was using the term "in-house" brand based on something I read on a Japanese website, and of course Rick wrote "house brand," which is probably better. But maybe there's another term?

Basically, it's a piano that's made by company X, or made under the direction of company X, but doesn't (or shouldn't!) have company X's logo on its fallboard.

So for example, Essex and Boston are both made by Steinway, and I note that Wiki calls them "secondary brands." But they each have their own logos on their fallboards, and aren't actually made in the same factories.

Same for Cable-Nelson, those piano say Cable-Nelson on the fallboard but Yamaha is the parent company.

A house brand is essentially the retailer side of stenciling. They bought a piano and have their brand put on it.

Thanks,I always thought it was some kind of customized model ordered by a dealer.

Wasn't Cable-Nelson an existing brand that Yamaha bought and then replaced the C-N models with their own?
Or am I confusing C-N with another brand?

You're welcome.

But, yeah, that screw-on plaque! Did it come off a lawn mower or snow mobile?

Ah, this is a helpful definition!

But then this definition doesn't fit the S&S/Boston/Essex connection, right? From what I read, the connection between Yamaha and Miki is like the S&S/Boston connection.

So, secondary line or sub-brand might be better??

It’s sort of fluid. Big makers like S&S contract OEM production of products to their spec’s and market them large scale. I’d equate “House Brand” as I’ve described it to a much smaller scale. Maybe in one city or region. Drive one state over and maybe find the identical product with some other name on it.

I’d consider Essex and Boston to be bonafide product lines marketed by S&S, more so than a “house brand,” in part because they’re more than a “house,” which implies local. But, again, these are not concrete definitions or categories.

Cable Nelson was an old American brand. I owned a small grand that was made in 1925 that was a pretty decent little piano. I think Yamaha bought the name in the late 90s or early 00s. And there my knowledge ends.

Re: House Brands...

The D.H. Baldwin brand was a house brand sold by Baldwin dealers, as a cheaper alternative to a real Baldwin. The D.H. Baldwin was made by Young Change initially, and then by Samick. Not bad pianos, per-se, but not real Baldwins either.

That is just one example of many.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me...

Rick

I just tuned a Story & Clark that was made by Yamaha. It was clearly marked that way, including the plate casting.

Not exact!

Essex is designed by Steinway, but made in China by Guangzhou Pearl River Piano Group Ltd.

Boston is designed by Steinway, but made in Japan and Indonesia at Kawai Musical Instrument Mfg. Co., Ltd., and Samick Musical Instrument Mfg. Co. Ltd.

Regards,

Cable was founded in the early 20th century and the name was changed to Cable-Nelson when Nelson joined in shortly thereafter. The firm was bought by Everett, and for about 50 years, Everett was their higher end brand, Cable-Nelson the lower end brand. Yamaha bought Everett in the 1970's, and shut down the Cable-Nelson brand.

In 2007 Yamaha started using Cable-Nelson as a brand for pianos made in China.