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Originally Posted by mmathew
Bringing everyone back on track -

Are there any long term ownership reviews any one would like to share? Pictures maybe? I have also not heard many CA79/CA99 recordings of late... Issues/problems aside for a moment: the sound of the CA79/CA99, especially the warm mellow tones - are to die for - anyone care to share?

Here's a piano transcription of Le Cygne by Camille Saint-Saens that I recorded for the 40 Pieces a Year challenge :
Recording

The settings are :SK-EX rendering, on Mellow lounge ambiance, with touch curve:heavy1, resonance:4


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It would be appropriate, now, to change the title of this thread:

“We Have Issues!”


You’re using the ‘velocity’ curve, so I assume that’s working✔️

SK-EX✔️

Mellow Lounge ambiance✔️

Resonance 4✔️

I believe it’s fair to assume the keys/action and speakers are working✔️


As stated before, y’all asked for that ‘authentic buzz’, and now that you seem to have it, ‘the buzz seems a little unnatural, and I want my money back!’


So, I ask again, what the heck is wrong with you people? grin

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Oh dear @Meap6 - you are a wonderful pianist! Thanks for sharing!

I love this setting you used. I describe it as mellow, "complete" and resonant for the notes to be heard clearly - your playing also has a great deal to do with it. Compliments overall!


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
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Originally Posted by Pete14
So, I ask again, what the heck is wrong with you people? grin

Expecting a response in good faith, I ask you @Pete14,

If I were to gift you a CA79/CA99, would you accept the instrument happily and play it with satisfaction? By now, after reading through this thread, you have a good idea of the pros and cons. So, be honest and let me know - it would answer a whole lot of questions and settle it.

I'll not challenge your response.


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
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Originally Posted by mmathew
Originally Posted by Pete14
So, I ask again, what the heck is wrong with you people? grin

Expecting a response in good faith, I ask you @Pete14,

If I were to gift you a CA79/CA99, would you accept the instrument happily and play it with satisfaction? By now, after reading through this thread, you have a good idea of the pros and cons. So, be honest and let me know - it would answer a whole lot of questions and settle it.

I'll not challenge your response.

I'd happily accept it for free, sell it for $4000, buy shares of GME, wait for Rocket, then buy an N3 grin

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The Korg 01/W does have a tuning that is 'randomly slightly detuned TET'.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
It would be appropriate, now, to change the title of this thread:

“We Have Issues!”


You’re using the ‘velocity’ curve, so I assume that’s working✔️

SK-EX✔️

Mellow Lounge ambiance✔️

Resonance 4✔️

I believe it’s fair to assume the keys/action and speakers are working✔️


As stated before, y’all asked for that ‘authentic buzz’, and now that you seem to have it, ‘the buzz seems a little unnatural, and I want my money back!’


So, I ask again, what the heck is wrong with you people? grin

Pete, I know you post a lot of stuff with humor (and I enjoy reading it everywhere on the forum !), but to answer seriously :
What you're not seeing in this recording is the pain it takes of going through the UI to set it up / have multiple takes - not to mention the recordings I've lost the the crappy USBs my house is apparently filled with !

I do love this instrument, and enjoy playing it very much.
Pain starts as soon as I need to touch that panel on the left ! Which is why I avoid it as much as I can, essentially all the time aside from recording.


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Originally Posted by mmathew
Oh dear @Meap6 - you are a wonderful pianist! Thanks for sharing!

I love this setting you used. I describe it as mellow, "complete" and resonant for the notes to be heard clearly - your playing also has a great deal to do with it. Compliments overall!

Thank you blush


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Originally Posted by mmathew
Originally Posted by Pete14
So, I ask again, what the heck is wrong with you people? grin

Expecting a response in good faith, I ask you @Pete14,

If I were to gift you a CA79/CA99, would you accept the instrument happily and play it with satisfaction? By now, after reading through this thread, you have a good idea of the pros and cons. So, be honest and let me know - it would answer a whole lot of questions and settle it.

I'll not challenge your response.


Yes!

For some perspective, I honestly don’t remember the last time I touched anything other than power on/off and volume.

I power on, adjust my seat, buckle in, check all systems (speakers make a sound), adjust volume, and off I go!

And this ‘slab’ is not even marketed as ‘the pure piano experience’, yet something like the CA99 is. This piano is all ‘bout the action and the soundboard speaker system; the rest is simply icing on the cake!


Regarding the now infamous buzz:

I half-jokingly recommend to a ‘pissed off’ member to check for beehives before coming here recommending against this ‘terrible’ instrument. Well, it turns out that his dealer did check for ‘beehives’ and although he did not find any bees 🐝, he found something related to the ‘power brick’ most likely being the cause for the ‘buzz’.

When you have a living/breathing soundboard it is easy for something as simple as a loose screw to cause unwanted vibrations because, you know, we’re dealing with wood here, and wood can be very picky about its surroundings. Now, these things can be corrected/ironed out/regulated, but once again, that is just the nature of wood: it expands, it contracts, and it behaves accordingly; some days nice, other days naughty.

We wanted a soundboard but not the associated and ever so delicate mode swings that come with it.

Perhaps we should be more clear about our ‘wants’ and not ask for the digital to emulate the temperamental acoustic verbatim.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Perhaps we should be more clear about our ‘wants’ and not ask for the digital to emulate the temperamental acoustic verbatim.

Well, how about an instrument that has microphones and vibration detectors included. These measure the sound coming off from the speakers, soundboard and cabinet and then feed into an "acoustic augmentation engine" that calibrates the DP depending on the room, placement and weather in order to deliver consistency. Using this, the speakers (you'd need a lot more of them) could use beamforming and actually make it sound that a complete grand piano is right in front of you. Then using an app you could adjust every little detail you can think of, like "what distance is the wall on the side of the half opened topboard" to get real reverberations from the acoustic behaviour of your room. Paired with a responsive touchscreen that is actually a high-end phone so everything is smooth sailing. I'd suggest KAWAI starts with the last thing in their R&D department.

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Wish #2 granted!

The NV-20 will be equipped with sensors & laser beams working in conjunction with an AI precision-based machine capable of detecting any bugs, flies, or bees and ‘squashing’ them on the spot.

The NV-20 will also boast our newest ‘Turbo-Boost’ technology for those aging, slow, and tired fingers.

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@Meap6

Meap6, firstly thank you for the reality check. In spite of the pain and frustration you endured in recording that and many other pieces....the performance was fantastic. Your instrument played like a piano, it felt like a piano, and to the listener it SURE sounded like a beautiful piano. So for that...Kawai have delivered in spaces in my opinion. So many other DPs sound like DPs. You know....the modelling and ambience’s that in isolation we sometimes take exception to, really do and can add to the experience when realistically coupled to beautiful playing.

It is very obvious however, that it is a lot easier to get great sound electronically out of a DP than it is acoustically. There are a lot of design complications and room acoustic qualities to consider when driving those complex sound waves into a real room via speakers, transducers and soundboards depending on model.

I still think Kawai have produced a beautiful instrument with a terrible user experience thanks to its UI implementation.

I still love my CA99, remain optimistic for an updated firmware / UI code, and in the mean time am trying to get used to as many of the default settings as possible.

Thank you for sharing and reminding us again about the musical part of the equation.

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Splendide interprétation, @Meap6 !

Am I the only one to find some similarities of authorial voice, for want of a better term, between Saint-Saens and Satie? Neither of them would be happy to know it, but I do.

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Originally Posted by RickM
Maybe what Kawai does is release a number of important updates in the first few months, and then waits a year or two to collect as many more issues as they can before making one last update. If this is the case, then our strategy should be to make sure we report everything, and not a stripped-down list of what some people feel is the most important or of what we think they might agree to do.

A nice feature that Yamaha added afterwards to their lineup is digital audio in. Just imagine using the USB to Host for MIDI to PC and audio to DP simultaneously! Wonderful!

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Originally Posted by avss01
@Meap6

Meap6, firstly thank you for the reality check. In spite of the pain and frustration you endured in recording that and many other pieces....the performance was fantastic. Your instrument played like a piano, it felt like a piano, and to the listener it SURE sounded like a beautiful piano. So for that...Kawai have delivered in spaces in my opinion. So many other DPs sound like DPs. You know....the modelling and ambience’s that in isolation we sometimes take exception to, really do and can add to the experience when realistically coupled to beautiful playing.

Okay, so let me try to unravel this: “...in spite of the pain and frustration you endured in recording that and many other pieces....”

First, we don’t know a thing about pain and frustration if we, the collective, can afford such an instrument (many ‘round the world are still playing 80’s Casios).

Second, you state that (the) “instrument played like a piano, it felt like a piano, and to the listener it SURE sounded like a beautiful piano...” but still that darn UI (the last part was me; I make assumptions sometimes).

Third, would you rather have a Roland with a perfect UI and fake wannabe piano, or deal with some minor annoyances that will get resolved at some point and have, as you say, an instrument that sounds like a beautiful piano?

You know, sometimes we can’t have it all at once; it’s called reality, and if we look at Kawai’s customer service record, they don’t tend to leave their customers in the dust, but guess who does let another one bite the dust? Roland!


“F# sounds harsh and overly loud by comparison......”

“That’s your problem; not ours,” said a Roland representative.


P.S.

Considering current circumstances, it’s not only Kawai, but all manufacturers from all fields that are having trouble keeping up with demands; namely warranty demands, parts & labor, and even colours available, so please give a guy a break!

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Originally Posted by fr34k
Originally Posted by RickM
Maybe what Kawai does is release a number of important updates in the first few months, and then waits a year or two to collect as many more issues as they can before making one last update. If this is the case, then our strategy should be to make sure we report everything, and not a stripped-down list of what some people feel is the most important or of what we think they might agree to do.

A nice feature that Yamaha added afterwards to their lineup is digital audio in. Just imagine using the USB to Host for MIDI to PC and audio to DP simultaneously! Wonderful!
Not to mention high-res DSD KAWAI SK-EX sound in a DAW! Man dreams running wild...

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Originally Posted by Meap6
Here's a piano transcription of Le Cygne by Camille Saint-Saens that I recorded for the 40 Pieces a Year challenge :
Recording

The settings are :SK-EX rendering, on Mellow lounge ambiance, with touch curve:heavy1, resonance:4

missed this post, could just be my speakers, but the mid felt overpowering, maybe eq the mid down a tad to get as much juice on those highs as possible. The main melody is slightly muddy/drowned in some areas. Again could just be my speakers. grin

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Pete14

Hey Pete....let me try to unravel it for you to help you understand wink

I suspect you are just fishing for bites but here goes....

“First, we don’t know a thing about pain and frustration if we, the collective, can afford such an instrument (many ‘round the world are still playing 80’s Casios).”

Pain was the word used by Meap6 when referring to the workarounds required to simply record a piece and the frustration when the recording is lost. Nothing at all to do with playing 80’s Casios. My 20 year old Roland records and plays back with no technical issues. It is now 2021. Also, please don’t assume to know how easily or otherwise members here were able to afford their new instruments. Regardless of those circumstances, people have every right to be disappointed with a product they paid a great deal of money for but doesn’t meet reasonable expectations.

“ Second, you state that (the) “instrument played like a piano, it felt like a piano, and to the listener it SURE sounded like a beautiful piano...” but still that darn UI (the last part was me; I make assumptions sometimes).”

Yes actually.....that darn UI. It makes using this product difficult. The implementation is bad. I designed touch screen UIs within a university of three campuses, and the usability of a teaching space can be severely affected by a bad design. In the case here, not even a thoroughly tested design before going to market. They did get all the WEB PR and glossy brochures right though.

“ Third, would you rather have a Roland with a perfect UI and fake wannabe piano, or deal with some minor annoyances that will get resolved at some point and have, as you say, an instrument that sounds like a beautiful piano?”

I rather thought you would have worked out that the members of this forum all chose the latter. That is why we are here after all. I am not going to trash other makes of DP on this forum, but it should be obvious that I chose my CA99 because I liked the feel and touch, the sound emulation, and the finish. I was not aware of just how bad the USABILITY of its own touted features were until I got it home and tried to “goodness me” save a sound setting with a file name, or “gee whiz” have the instrument turn on reliably with the same settings each time, or “my God” record reliably. And yes Pete.....you bet your boots I am hoping these “minor annoyances” (your words) get resolved at some point.....it has been a year so far, but still hopeful.

Finally, I think I have stated many times that I love my CA99 for the features already mentioned, and am disappointed but accepting and patient of the items that can hopefully be fixed...again...its been a year so far.

Finally Finally.....I was really only wanting to complement Meap6 on the recording and for sharing with us, while also reminding everybody that ultimately we are all after the same thing....to play piano and make music.

Hope this helps you to unravel my post Pete.

I think actually we might even be on the same page.....

Cheers

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Pete14

One extra question for you Pete.....do you actually own, use and play either a CA79 or CA99?

Or are you a professional poster across multiple forums just offering your words of wisdom?

Just curious wink

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