2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
48 members (Burkey, ando, Beansparrow, c++, Bruce In Philly, Bett, CaseyVancouver, accordeur, 10 invisible), 976 guests, and 539 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 4
C
Clavio Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 4
Hi folks,
a question regarding the sound output differences between models in the CLP-700 series.
It is clear that the speaker sound can be significantly different due to their speaker configs.
But what about the headphone sound? (both the theoretical and practical perspectives)

For example, the differences are quite noticeable in this test: CLP-735 & CLP-745 blind test
But I'm not sure if it was recording the speaker or the line output?
If I'm only using my headphones for the binaural samples, would they sound different across the models, if at all?
My naive guess: on one hand they could sound exactly the same as they are all digital, but maybe the amplifier would come into play?

I'm especially interested in CLP-735, 745, and 775.
Due to lockdowns I won't be able to try them out personally in the foreseeable future, so any info would help.
Thanks!

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 688
Tyr Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 688
Both are recorded with a mike instead of line-out. With line-out you wouldn't notice any difference.


Kawai: NV5 | VPC1
Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,780
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,780
With line output you would still notice a difference.

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 4
C
Clavio Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 4
Okay now it's like I'm split into two and hitting the lowest A and the highest B with my index fingers. crazy
Which key is it?

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 4
C
Clavio Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 4
Is there a third insight to break the tie?
I'm interested to know the technical reasoning behind it.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,780
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,780
It's not technical. The better pianos have better samples. You pay more for that, and you expect (and get) better sound.

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,365
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,365
@MacMacMac : did you notice a difference with headphones (or line out). We may have a same line of product (CLP 725 to 785 for example) sharing the same samples (ok, the CLP725 has no binaural Bösendorfer). And an inferior line (Arius), sharing an other set of samples.

On the specifications, there are no difference between the tone generation of the CLP725 and the CLP785. With previous generation, some features were reserved to higher models (string resonance, VRM...). But this doesn’t prove there are no difference.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 05/09/21 11:40 AM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,780
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,780
@Frederic: The low-end pianos have smaller sample sets.

Keep in mind that the specifications only refer to the cutesy trade names that the manufacturer uses. Those names have no definition. Trade names are meant to deceive, not to inform.

So Yamaha can sell pianos from top-of-the line to the basic low-end model ... all with "Real Grand Expression" (RGE). Yet the piano sounds can be utterly different.

The same was true decades ago with their "Advanced Wave Memory" (AWM).

Sigh. Nothing changes. The goal is to make the customer think he's getting something wonderful, no matter how much or how little he wants to spend. Tomfoolery abounds.

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 4
C
Clavio Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 4
I can understand a company would want to target a broad range of customers at each price point and squeeze out as much profit as possible, but does it really make financial sense to prepare different sample variants for each model and not market about it at all? I'm talking about comparison for the same sample, e.g. binaural CFX or Imperial, not the number of samples.
At the very least, shouldn't we expect to hear more about it? As I can imagine someone had compared the same samples on a CLP-735 and a CLP-745 via the same headphone - this is the type of confirmation I'm hoping to find.

@MacMacMac: I'm sure your generalization is valid on some levels, but it doesn't say much about differences between incremental models in a specific line of product (Clavinova 700s). It's not like we can only infer from spec sheets - these models have been out for a while now.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,780
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,780
@Clavio: Ignore the "specs" aimed at consumers and look, instead, at the service manuals. In particular, look at the schematic diagrams. The ROM usage varies across the line.

Expect more. Pay more. Get more.
You won't get that if you buy the low-end model.

As for this ...
Quote
... does it really make financial sense to prepare different sample variants for each model and not market about it at all?
It costs nothing to put smaller samples into the cheaper pianos. Indeed, there's a cost savings on the smaller ROM chips.

I'll leave it to Frederic to discuss how they might take the best samples used in the high-end piano and downgrade them to fit into smaller, cheaper ROMs for the low-end model.

Incidentally, this mode of operations is not new to Yamaha. They've been doing it for decades. (I might presume that Roland and Kawai do likewise, but I have no specific information on those brands.)

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,365
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,365
Old Clavinova had published number of velocity layers, but since circa 15 years, there is no such published numbers.

I would like to read the schematics of the different Clavinova and read the difference between ROM. It could be instructive. But it is easier to find the service manual of older units.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Best Tuner for singing?
by ZanderChicago - 06/20/21 11:37 AM
Recent 24” M1 iMac and Pianos
by dhts - 06/20/21 07:55 AM
Digital piano - online vs in store purchase.
by witor - 06/20/21 07:45 AM
help finding best action DP
by luisdent - 06/20/21 02:03 AM
I’m completely lost!
by Mils - 06/19/21 11:33 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics207,616
Posts3,105,639
Members101,869
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5