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I actually don't find the out of tune strings that attractive.
Indeed many people get migraines from such off colour sound.

Again, no where did I ever state 'ALL' future digital pianos would have such a feature. Let's stop putting words into people's keyboards shall we

My reasoning and wording are both perfectly sound:
The complete genre of digital pianos as a whole allows the great many limitations afflicting acoustic pianos to be fixed once and for all.

The acoustic piano is dead;
Long live the digital piano!

This!

And where did I ever state that you said that? It was clearly just a consideration from me. Maybe it's you the one trying to put words into my keyboard...? There are certainly some limitations/annoyances afflicting acoustic grand pianos, like the size, the weight, the volume of the generated sound, the price, tuning and maintenance costs. But the incredible amount of nuances, richness, details and immersive experience you can get from its sound is unrivaled with any current digital piano.

Another thing: let's say you play C4 on a current digital piano... It will always be the same C4 sound even in 30 years. On the contrary, even on a well-tuned and well-maintained acoustic piano, that C4 will be slightly different in the years, but always beautiful, because the wood ages and the tuning of the strings cannot be always exactly the same... So the sound evolves like a person who grows and slightly changes his/her character. That's incredible, it's almost like a living being...

So, acoustic pianos are dead? In your head, maybe. I guess you too, as Pete14, dream of electric sheep...

No, that has literally nothing to do at all with DPs.


They outsourced recording the piano to someone else and are mixing samples recorded from a grand piano by someone else. That's nothing unusual. That's exactly what these sample libraries are meant for. It's the same for recording voice: You are able to sing or use an autotune plugin and let it sing for you.

There is nothing wrong with that, but the topic of recording acoustic pianos and (re)using samples recorded from them has nothing to do with using digital pianos at all.

Complete nonsense. You simply upgrade to Pianoteq 42: sounds better every year!

Well, I'm not sure if the acoustic piano will vanish for good - this is a discussion that goes beyond my scope of interest - but in many situations it'll be a relic of the past in no time. Even today, I see no use anymore for acoustics in any conceivable situation excluding (1) a live performance whose venue can afford to maintain its piano in pristine conditions, or (2) a recording session whose studio also can afford this. Other than that, I'll stick 100% of the time to a digital piano rather than fight with a mistuned, ill-callibrated, poor-sounding acoustic. Given that I'm not nostalgic nor have any piano fetish, it's an easy trade... :-)

Also complete nonsense: acoustic pianos all get worse and lose value the older they are. No acoustic piano remains just as beautiful over time - that's proven by the fact that 99.9999% of pianos do not increase in value over time (the only pianos that increase over time are not ones you play - they're the ones owned by famous people like Mozart, Chopin, Rachmaninoff).

That's why older pianos all have to be reconditioned - the only way to maintain their beautiful tones is to replace/refurbish every single part of them. Which is an extremely expensive journey.

we've been there millions of time, there is space for both, but so far nothing can replace a good acoustic piano.

Sometimes I wonder why some people have to be so rude in expressing their own opinions...

'Complete nonsense' refered to the counterfactual statements.
'Complete nonsense' was not a judgement of you personally.

I wish people would stop taking offence at things not directed at them

Complete nonsense. People are people.

I take offense at your ‘offence’ because I’m certain that you are aware of the correct spelling -offense- yet you still come here to throw this offence at us.

I won’t have it -offence- just like I won’t have defence! It’s freaking defense!

For god’s sake, even “auto-correct” will not allow it!

Almost.

The acoustic piano is dying.
The digital piano has just passed its peak.
The Midi Controller Keyboard + VST is the future!

OK so,

With regards to the differences in audio recordings acoustic vs. DPs:

Are DPs good enough to produce album-worthy recordings? From what we have heard so far:

- Yes, to a limited extent. The resonance has not been satisfactorily 'designed'* There are pieces even below virtuoso level that will expose the limitations of the DP.

- With VSTs, to a great extent, yes. In addition, VSTs and DAWs provide excellent audio recording capabilities that can do it. But VSTs too lack in enough resonance 'design'*. Virtuoso and hyper-virtuoso pieces will expose the VSTs' weaknesses.

- To a good ear, these inefficiencies are disappointingly obvious.

What else?


---
* designed - sampled. modeled. sampled, then used to model. and whatever goes with it.

I’m not saying you’re wrong about the ‘controller/VST’ ruling the future because it all comes down to semantics, and a digital piano with on-board sound is by extension a controller + a ‘virtual’ simulation of a piano.

Now, for those simply wanting to sit down and practice, the ‘digital’ piano is just getting warmed up, and pretty soon we will see on-board ‘pianos’ matching and even surpassing the *sound* quality of so-called VSTs.

Keep in mind that having an action paired and calibrated to a sound engine and on-board speakers at the factory level already has inherent advantages compared to a generic VST designed to work with any action/sound system.

Something gets lost in translation (velocity curve, sound imaging, etc) and Rosetta can only do so much, but native, on the other hand, is just native!


*sound* refers mostly to fidelity in isolation, but not necessarily to playability and/or overall sound imaging.

Good point Pete! However, I think that the technical development of each aspect of piano playing will enable users to individualise their instrument, so that everyone can chose the action they prefer, and combine it with the piano sounds they prefer, with the loudspeakers they prefer. Who knows, ten years from now there may even be keyboards with smaller keys, for piano players with small hands, or with a rounded form, for more ergonomic playing.

I just realized I use the term "digital piano" for both actual digital piano units and for the controller/VST combo. I think it's perhaps because I don't use the original sounds of my DP for so long now it makes no difference.

That said, borderline off-topic, I agree with you about VSTs with one remark: it's not the virtuosity of the piece that makes the flaws apparent. Some of the most convincing, almost indisguinshable digital recordings I've listened to were of very challenging stuff by Liszt, for instance. Yet Debussy's Clair de Lune keeps making developer's lifes difficult. I think it became some sort of milestone in this quest for authenticity: the VST that first make it sound really really good will win the jackpot LOL

On a side question, let me ask you guys something: Would you rather listen to an acoustic piano with a couple of slightly out of tune notes or to a digital piano with an obvious digital artifact?

I want neither one of these ...I prefer an in-tune acoustic. Second place: a top digital piano.

An out-of-tune acoustic can be tuned.
A poor-sounding digital can be left on the showroom floor.
I don't want either one.