Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Choosing Kawai K-200 or Yamaha P22 D? For waterfront cottage

Hello, first post! My family has tasked ME, a non-pianist, with choosing a piano for our shared family summer cottage on the (salt) waterfront in Maine. The cottage is unheated in winter (so, no big drying out). Previously we had a Steinway grand, which, at 120 years old, had NO cracks in the soundboard! Who will play: a range of teens to adults, all amateur. Some classical repertoire, the rest mixed. There will be practice, there will be little performances, cocktail hour stuff, etc. I've narrowed it down to TWO choices, after much reading, talking to piano techs, and going to see used and new pianos at various dealers, shops, and private sales. The piano will be in a room approx. 17x17 with wooden walls, ceiling (7'5"), and floors (and 5 windows and 3 doors).

1. A 2018 used Kawai K-200 with a Dampp-Chaser system. Glossy black. Transferable factory warranty . This is a trade-in at a reputable Yamaha dealer. It sounds nice to me and the looks are fine. $4750 delivered.
2. A new Yamaha P22 D, in satin black, from a different Yamaha dealer. $5300 delivered.

As a non-pianist I really cannot compare the action or much of anything else. I wonder if the Milliennium ABS action of the Kawai will hold up better given the high humidity environment (we could plug in the D-C in summer only, and run it as a dehumidifier; but not in winter - no one will monitor it). Or if the Yamaha having 5 posts will mean more soundboard stability. Will the ABS action suffer if freezing in winter? Any other thoughts? HELP APPRECIATED!

Either of those could be fine, but knowing what salt air and excessive humidity can do to things, have you considered the hybrid uprights like the Yamaha NU1X and the Kawai NV5S? They might fare better in this environment and require much less maintenance. I think the street price of a new NU1x might be close to what you're considering.

I'm just thinking that most folks on the Maine coast enjoy keeping the windows open for those three days of summer...

Ponder this question. How many people with pianos living next to salt water have no corrosion on their strings?

Was that Steinway in this same cottage? If the steinway was in the cottage and didn't have any corrosion on the metal components, that would indicate the conditions there aren't a problem and you could buy any piano you want. I would lean toward a digital or hybrid in those conditions because you won't have to worry about tuning, temperature or humidity. Another advantage is a beginner could practice with headphones and everyone else could listen to the birds chirping.

FWIW --

I'm a lurker, from the Digital Piano forum, and I was worried about being flamed for recommending a digital piano (for all the reasons already mentioned). But it seems I have company, in my opinion.

I don't know if you've listened to any of the high-end DP's from Yamaha / Kawai / Roland. But they're loud enough to fill up your room with sound, and "piano-like" enough to satisfy lots of people.

Depending on budget, you might want to go whole-hog and get a "hybrid" (acoustic piano action, electronic sound generator). The next-lower level are models like the Roland GP ("grand piano" format) and LX ("upright piano" format) series, or equivalents from Yamaha and Kawai. They are _not_ "toy pianos".

I'd suggest test-playing them, but you don't play -- too bad.

Please report back -- it's an interesting requirement.

Thank you - in fact, I had not considered digital or hybrid, because I had no idea that such nice ones were being made. I had pictured a plastic keyboard on a stand. Not the look for a 120 y.o. victorian home! BUT, after talking with the Yamaha dealer and poking around a little, I think maybe the NU1X would be the ticket! They offered it, delivered, for $5300. They said the action is the same as a U-1 action. I haven't seen one in person yet, so I'll go look tomorrow. There wouldn't be a pinblock or soundboard to worry about, but still has wooden action parts... In any case, the NV5 by Kawai also seems a great choice, but more expensive. Their comparably priced model would be the CA99. I realize this is not the digital forum, but, I'm learning here!

Meanwhile, yes, the Steinway A-2 was in the same house. It DID have rust on the pins, although they were still tight and in working condition. I wonder if newer acoustic uprights would have the quality of pinblock and soundboard as that old Steinway, though. We do want a piano that will last 20-30 years; I'm not sure digitals or hybrids will have that lifespan; they only carry 5 year warranties, which tells me something...

Yes, the lifetime of electronics is shorter than that of wood, steel, and felt. But what drives buying is often technical progress (which is glacial for acoustic pianos, and only slow for DP's).

The economic argument is something like:

. . . Amortize the initial cost of a DP over (say) 10 years;

. . . . . . Maintenance costs for a DP: Zero.

. . . When it becomes un-repairable, buy a new one --
. . . . . it will have the benefit of several years (or decades)
. . . . . of technical progress.

Side note:

I own two pocket watches, 1890 and 1910. I've just had both of them overhauled, for about 5 times the cost of a decent quartz wristwatch. I'm carrying one in my pocket, and my wrist is now bare.

There's _no way_ I could rationally justify spending that much on an old piece of machinery, if all I wanted to do was to know the time. So some kind of "conspicuous consumption", or steampunk esthetic, is at work.

If you were to get an acoustic grand, I'd understand why.<g>

Have fun in the process --

You might be interested to know that Steinway only offers a 5 year warranty on its new acoustic pianos - many of which cost more than $90K. .

The primary concern about a $5K digital is whether you and your family members would really like the amplified sound through speakers compared to an acoustic.

I, too, think this should be a concern since part of the use is for "little performances, cocktail hour stuff..." The simplicity of sitting down at the piano and getting an expected sonic experience is valuable. No issues with "turn up the volume", "is this thing even on?", etc. Also, since the instrument will be used by a variety of players there's a possibility of user interface issues/confusion with a digital or hybrid (even tho the Yamaha hybrid controls are pretty darn simple).

I'd be reticent about putting an acoustic piano in a humid, unmonitored environment.

I'd be inclined to first try a new, mid-line digital, one that would be easy to sell if I wasn't happy with it. I had a Yamaha P-125, a lower level digital piano, and I sold it within a week of getting my grand for minimal loss.

I've just purchased a VU meter kitset which uses 'magic eye' tubes. It's about 5 times the cost of a decent digital kitset. There's no way I could rationally justify spending that much on ancient technology, if all I wanted to do was monitor audio levels. I don't let logic get in the way though - that's why I own pianos!

Chooser, is there any old electronics in this summer cottage which could suggest that the conditions are tolerable for circuit boards etc? Perhaps a stereo system?
As well as my acoustic pianos, I have a 9YO electronic keyboard still going strong. The keyboard CAN sound good in the room, provided that you have some good speakers which are positioned well. If an NU1X doesn't sound impressive by itself (maybe they do - I've never heard one), you could run it through the hi-fi... unless this just made the setup too off-putting for your family members ("Is this even on? I don't know how to work Chooser's complicated setup, so I won't use it.").

If the acoustic wins out, consider the used Kawai to avoid getting blamed for how fast a brand new acoustic goes out of tune in its first year or two.

The NU1X has 90 watts of power amp. It'll be roughly as loud as an acoustic upright.

There is loudness, and then there is good sound. (Not that a system optimized for 2-channel recordings will do justice to a sampled piano.)

Well if one wraps up the piano whenever it's not being played,
never opens any windows or doors anywhere near the piano.Has a dehumidifier running almost constantly, one may enjoy one's 😉 beach side cottage with a piano.
I would rather buy a digital piano or get an older freebie accoustic piano from Craigslist and just replace the strings if they snap...

It's probably entirely my personal preference, but I would choose the Kawai over the Yamaha. I just don't like the Yamaha sound/action. Kawai has a sound I much prefer. In particular, with uprights, Kawai is great (to me, at their best, they're about as good sounding as the Steinway uprights... though, nothing touches a Steinway grand!). I own a K200, and it's great -- though there's no salty air here, the only danger is from mice who want to live in the back. The Yamaha uprights sound like a machine. To me. Other people do love them (and most Yamaha things are pretty darned sturdy).

Thanks everyone! I went and tried a bunch of the digital and hybrid pianos. I liked them - some more than others - but long story short, my family is leaning back towards the acoustics. (For simplicity and aesthetics, mainly.)

Advice on here (digital/hybrid notwithstanding) helped steer us back towards a less expensive acoustic option - a used P-22 for $3500 delivered. I'm having a piano tech check it out for us; I had seen it a few weeks ago at a dealer (it's a 1999 made in Thomaston). Doesn't have a mute rail, which is unfortunate. I'm a little concerned the hammer heads may have been filed a bit much - thus, asking a tech to do a basic evaluation. I don't know anything about its past. The dealer offers a 100% lifetime trade-up option, though I imagine if the piano cracks a bridge or soundboard due to our environmental conditions, that will not hold.

FWIW, I agree I prefer the Kawai sound on the acoustic uprights. If the tech doesn't like the P-22, I'm going back to the used Kawai (if still available!). Maybe that Millennium carbon fiber action will fare well in the humidity. But I'm told the P-22s will likely hold a tuning better.

I loved the Novus5 Kawai hybrid, which has the Millennium action the K-200 has; aesthetically, soundwise, and even action-wise (I don't play, but I can eke out a few chords and such - I had lessons as a kid). But it was just too pricey at $8k. The others I would have liked - the CA-99 and the Yamaha CLP-785 - are way backordered and no one knows when they might get some in; likely months. The NUX1 was a disappointment; especially since the store had a used U-1 which played and sounded fantastic (long story why we're not buying that one!) by comparison; and they are supposed to have the same action. The Roland LX-708 just sounded too electronic-ky for me.

I'll update if we actually buy the 1999 Yamaha P-22.

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to hearing from you again.