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Originally Posted by Pete14
Y’all have it all wrong; an NV10S will indeed make you a better pianist instantly.

Guaranteed by James, or your money back!

James.. James from the Pianoforever YouTube channel?


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My point exactly: each has its own reasons to exist: think about noise, legal, space, skill level, sound preference and of course cash...
To me if there was no digital I had no opportunity to learn piano and therefore things line up as following:
- digital: low sound quality but can improve with VST, keybed approaches acoustic action for higher tier: such as ES100 -> VPC-1
- hybrid: sound quality near acoustic such as NV10 with acoustic action
- acoustic: sound quality and action as reference
IMO the ultimate "piano" for me could be the silent pianos since they represent a blend between low tier acoustic and hybrid, such as Kawai GL-30 Silent piano

Last edited by TonyDIGITAL; 06/22/21 07:17 AM.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
It's a common misconception that if a virtuoso can make a bad instrument sound good, then you don't need a good instrument.
Yes but it can also be enlightening to hear what a virtuoso can achieve on your own instrument. In my case it certainly was when my teacher played on mine!

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Originally Posted by playplayplay
James.. James from the Pianoforever YouTube channel?

No, Pete is referring to our very own (long suffering, thanks to Pete) Kawai James. He works for Kawai, but his views are his own! smile


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Well, it is often said that he owns a Nord which is a proof that he is not bound to Kawai but then it turned out Kawai were a strategic partner of Nord and supply them with actions. You just need to sum 2 and 2, as we say in Bulgaria wink


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Originally Posted by SeaDrive
Originally Posted by bilb
I have FP-30 at home. Sound via headphones and speakers is awful to me, I couldn't stand it so I switched to Garritan. Sound now is great, but the action is still subpar.

You have a VST that you like, and a controller with action that you don't like, so all you need to do is get a controller with action more like an acoustic.

A Kawai VPC1 will get you (maybe) 90% of the way to the feel of your teacher's baby grand. In any case, a lot closer than the FP-30.

The price of an NV10S is an awful lot of money to spend, if your main goal is just a more-acoustic-like action.

I haven’t tested VPC1 but played on MP11SE. It is certainly better than FP-30 but still not like proper grand action. Also I don’t want the fuss with VST on an external Mac and would like to get the same sound on speakers when I’m able to play loud. I just want to sit and play at all times. I know, I could invest in Mac mini and additional high quality speakers but I would rather spend some more to have NV10.

Originally Posted by spanishbudda
Yes but it can also be enlightening to hear what a virtuoso can achieve on your own instrument. In my case it certainly was when my teacher played on mine!
I know how my teacher play on my FP-30. Definitely I cannot play like this, but sorry, it’s still FP-30 with crappy speakers. You cannot win the race having even the best driver behind the wheel of Ford Fiesta.
Another question is: if he practiced on a digital only would he been in the same place today?

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Y’all have it all wrong; an NV10S will indeed make you a better pianist instantly.

Guaranteed by James, or your money back!

Sounds very interesting. How long is this money-back guarantee valid? Depending on how long it's valid, I'd like to get in. Is the NV10S really on sale, or will I have to settle for an instrument with less potential for improvement for the ambitious pianist?


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Well, it is often said that he owns a Nord which is a proof that he is not bound to Kawai but then it turned out Kawai were a strategic partner of Nord and supply them with actions. You just need to sum 2 and 2, as we say in Bulgaria wink

You guys in Bulgaria are already two steps further when you come to a new realisation than we are here in Germany. In such cases, you add 2 and 2 and you're already at 4. But in our idioms, we only add 1 and 1, so we only get to 2. grin


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Originally Posted by MBiG
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Well, it is often said that he owns a Nord which is a proof that he is not bound to Kawai but then it turned out Kawai were a strategic partner of Nord and supply them with actions. You just need to sum 2 and 2, as we say in Bulgaria wink

You guys in Bulgaria are already two steps further when you come to a new realisation than we are here in Germany. In such cases, you add 2 and 2 and you're already at 4. But in our idioms, we only add 1 and 1, so we only get to 2. grin

Ha, that's really funny. I admit "1 and 1" makes more sense but I guess in Bulgarian 1 is a bit longer to pronounce (едно - edno) compared to 2 (две - dve), so it sounds prettier when we say "2 and 2" 🍻


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Originally Posted by OU812
I don't even know what we're talking about anymore...
grin

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Originally Posted by SeaDrive
[quote=bilb]I have FP-30 at home. Sound via headphones and speakers is awful to me, I couldn't stand it so I switched to Garritan. Sound now is great, but the action is still subpar.

A Kawai VPC1 will get you (maybe) 90% of the way to the feel of your teacher's baby grand. In any case, a lot closer than the FP-30.

/quote]

One or two others may like to pitch in to confirm or deny that.
My own experience with the VPC-1 action, and that of the Grand Feel Compact was good. But no better in that respect to that of Yamaha's NWX.
I think the wood makes for a better inertia feel, but that's about it. The shanks and fake hammers count for little.
But if the dynamics of the piano sound were determined by the hammers, then maybe there'd be a difference which could be felt, like in a real piano.
I'd buy one.
Perhaps CG could adapt one . . .


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Originally Posted by slipperykeys
........ Here's a Roland HP 107e from 2008. How much time did Hakki spend agonising over the fact "this isn't as good as an acoustic", compared to the work of learning to play the piece?



Just how removed was that performance from the "acoustic experience"? No matter how much, the performance is superb. Nothing to do with acoustic/digital, all to do with effort, talent and application.....

Giving some benefit of doubt to AP purists or aficionados or gurus or others who have a knack for hearing things/perceived imperfections that may or may not actually be there, this rendition by Hakki is beautifully done in my opinion.... thank you slipperykeys.

Fantasie Impromptu is a study piece about 1/3 the way into book 1 of 2 from the adult beginner’s course my teacher started me on upon beginning to learn at the ripening age of 55 😊 .... of course the study piece teaches a simplified version of two-hands melody & bass line. With respect to players / critics of both AP or DP persuasion who may from time to time fuss over or get caught up in analysis, here is a direct quote from my book 1 related to Chopin:

Frederic Chopin, 1810-1849, Polish composer, became the French favorite salon player of the 1830’s in Paris. Chopin specialized in works for the piano; almost all of his work is for solo piano. He created masterpiece after masterpiece and was his own worst critic. French novelist Georges Sand (Madame Dudevant) described Chopin’s composing “state” as follows: “ He analyzed very much when writing down what was conceived as a whole, and his regret that he could not represent it perfectly made him desperate. For days, he locked himself up in his room, running up and down , breaking pens, repeating, changing one single measure a hundred times, writing, scratching it out, and the next morning starting out all over again with painstaking and desperate efforts. He would work six weeks over one single page ... “ ( Milton Cross’ Encyclopedia Of The Great Composers And Their Music ). “

Last edited by drewr; 06/22/21 11:17 AM.

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Originally Posted by drewr
........ French novelist Georges Sand (Madame Dudevant) described Chopin’s composing “state” as follows: “ He analyzed very much when writing down what was conceived as a whole, and his regret that he could not represent it perfectly made him desperate. For days, he locked himself up in his room, running up and down , breaking pens, repeating, changing one single measure a hundred times, writing, scratching it out, and the next morning starting out all over again with painstaking and desperate efforts. He would work six weeks over one single page ... “

How dramatic, this Chopin guy; you know, he once locked himself up in a convent?

Interesting how there was always someone around to log down these moments of desperation, sadness, and unrelenting devotion. I wonder if the guy ever got paid for his work? I mean, I’m sure it was all about his art, and perhaps offering money for his work could potentially offend, but then again, the guy had to eat, or are we to think he never ate because the music, which tormented, somehow also replenished and sustained him?

You know, this other composer guy, Bach, had a less traumatic existence; it is said that he simply saw composing as his ‘day job’ and never did he lock himself up for six days and seven nights; never did he break stuff, nor despair over perfection, yet ironically enough, he, Bach, is by definition perfection!

Do you know what he called ‘The Goldbergs’? ‘An aria and 30 variations for the keyboard aficionado’ (or something like that ). Yes, a piece considered by many the old New Testament, and Bach just saw it as a few variations for the road ahead. No drama, suffering, pathos, nor starving required.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by drewr
........ French novelist Georges Sand (Madame Dudevant) described Chopin’s composing “state” as follows: “ He analyzed very much when writing down what was conceived as a whole, and his regret that he could not represent it perfectly made him desperate. For days, he locked himself up in his room, running up and down , breaking pens, repeating, changing one single measure a hundred times, writing, scratching it out, and the next morning starting out all over again with painstaking and desperate efforts. He would work six weeks over one single page ... “

How dramatic, this Chopin guy; you know, he once locked himself up in a convent?

Interesting how there was always someone around to log down these moments of desperation, sadness, and unrelenting devotion. I wonder if the guy ever got paid for his work? I mean, I’m sure it was all about his art, and perhaps offering money for his work could potentially offend, but then again, the guy had to eat, or are we to think he never ate because the music, which tormented, somehow also replenished and sustained him?

You know, this other composer guy, Bach, had a less traumatic existence; it is said that he simply saw composing as his ‘day job’ and never did he lock himself up for six days and seven nights; never did he break stuff, nor despair over perfection, yet ironically enough, he, Bach, is by definition perfection!

Do you know what he called ‘The Goldbergs’? ‘An aria and 30 variations for the keyboard aficionado’ (or something like that ). Yes, a piece considered by many the old New Testament, and Bach just saw it as a few variations for the road ahead. No drama, suffering, pathos, nor starving required.

Good points pete! I am sure you know that recorded history is often word-smithed at the behest of the agenda behind a given war ..... so do you think the mania and drama that history recorded as part of the Chopin life and personality is true or the result of a seemingly not-apparent war?

Chopin is recorded as having died so young .... the kind of stress that comes with manic behavior can certainly lead to an early death .... reminiscent of the character acted by Kurt Douglas in the hollywood version of the artist famous for his works as well as behavior (ear-ectomy;) ... but now you’ve set me to wondering and questioning what was/is the true story .... 🤪

Last edited by drewr; 06/22/21 12:10 PM.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
You know, this other composer guy, Bach, had a less traumatic existence; it is said that he simply saw composing as his ‘day job’ ...

Well, composing may have been Bach's 'day job', but we all know what his 'night job' was... didn't he father twenty children? shocked


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Originally Posted by SeaDrive
Originally Posted by Pete14
You know, this other composer guy, Bach, had a less traumatic existence; it is said that he simply saw composing as his ‘day job’ ...

Well, composing may have been Bach's 'day job', but we all know what his 'night job' was... didn't he father twenty children? shocked

Well. you never got outed for being hetero then . .


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Originally Posted by SeaDrive
Well, composing may have been Bach's 'day job', but we all know what his 'night job' was... didn't he father twenty children? shocked

These times were not easy, Bach had a total of twenty children: five sons and two daughters from his first marriage (to Maria Barbara Bach) and six sons and seven daughters from his second marriage (to Anna Magdalena Bach); half of the children died before the age of 3.


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Originally Posted by SeaDrive
Originally Posted by Pete14
You know, this other composer guy, Bach, had a less traumatic existence; it is said that he simply saw composing as his ‘day job’ ...

Well, composing may have been Bach's 'day job', but we all know what his 'night job' was... didn't he father twenty children? shocked
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Originally Posted by bilb
I know how my teacher play on my FP-30. Definitely I cannot play like this, but sorry, it’s still FP-30 with crappy speakers. You cannot win the race having even the best driver behind the wheel of Ford Fiesta.

If slipperykeys had a Ford Fiesta piano like Yamaha b1 or Kawai K15, they would probably enjoy it a lot.

But a Roland FP-30 is nothing more than a kids' bicycle with an aftermarket pedal-assist (VST). We shouldn't compare this to the real thing.


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Originally Posted by JoeT
But a Roland FP-30 is nothing more than a kids' bicycle with an aftermarket pedal-assist (VST). We shouldn't compare this to the real thing.

and finally the thread comes full circle. kind of

Last edited by jackopiano; 06/23/21 03:29 AM.
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