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I do agree with OU812 as well, but maybe not entirely.

I think the best vst's are pretty amazing nowadays, couple that with a real (hybrid) action and the experience is quite great imo. It's not acoustic, no, but on the other side of the coin, who is able to play a d-274, cfx, imperial and more whenever they feel like? This is a big advantage of digital.

Plus, if you (like me) don't have a freestanding house, even when you have an acoustic, your probably going to want to practice alot on your digital.

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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
If we stop comparing, this forum will come to a halt ... and what will we do with our copious free time?

Piano practice confused


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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
The difference between a Kawai ES-110 and a Novus NV10 isn't just marketing.

+1!

So yes, the ‘digital’ hybrid is an instrument all its own, but this doesn’t mean, as implied, that it is inferior. And to say that there’s little to no difference between a top of the line hybrid and an entry level -ES920- digital is ludicrous!

This notion is based on romanticism, tradition, and snobbery, “ah, the smell of hammers hitting strings, you just can’t replicate that,” and why would I want to?

Once again, I don’t need ‘a wall of sound’ at my disposal; as a matter of fact, it is this very wall I hate so much because it is literally deafening!

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Hello,

Originally Posted by Doug M.
Piano practice confused

Certainly not that?!

(I didn't dare say it...)

😋

Cheers and happy practise sessions,

HZ

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Originally Posted by Doug M.
T
Originally Posted by Dave Horne
If we stop comparing, this forum will come to a halt ... and what will we do with our copious free time?

Piano practice confused
Nope. For that we have ABF and pianst corner. ^^


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I believe, for most digital piano users (not the freaky crazy ones that are here in PW crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy ) the distinction is not (very) relevant, they buy what they can afford (space and/or cost wise) and enjoy it, maybe upgrading when they feel the need. Unless, of course, the person comes to PW and all at a sudden they realize how bad his/her DP is, the same one that was very good until yesterday. smile


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It's slightly different regarding pianos and cars.

Acoustic piano modelling can get us much closer to a digital emulation of a piano, because like weather models (which currently predict accurately for only 48-72 hours into the future) piano models can be refined: both sampling and algorithm only methods. Also, as computing power goes up, software models can be made more complex, allowing for more nuanced models.

With cars, we are forced to go electric in order to reduce our emissions so that our civilization can keep growing without causing its own demise (ie, by instead raping the world of its precious metals at great local environmental costs). To be fair, the upside of electric cars is much better acceleration; the downside is that second hand value for a used Tesla a decade from now will be a few hundred dollars ie, because the chassis is a battery and by then, it will not hold enough charge to get people to work.

The experience of a Mustang with the visceral rumble of the engine is nothing more than what the thrill of riding a horse was to the pre-Car era: pleasant but people will move on, except for the few petrol heads who like fixing cars. Nobody is going to install devices in cars that simulate the rumbling of a powerful V8 engine lol.


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Fake sounds in electric cars are a thing. Though not necessarily a V8 sound. And they can be turned off.

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Your question: Why stop comparing the two?
My answer: Because I want a digital that comes as close as possible to an acoustic.
Comparisons are essential.

Originally Posted by OU812
All the built-in sounds will only ever play catch-up to an average VST, I've played on top end Kawai and Roland Digitals and at the end of the day they're only maybe slightly better than something a fraction of the price. I know that's upsetting to all the NUX1 owners but it is what it is.
Virtual instruments are better ... right now. But who's to say that this will persist?
Saying in 2021 that the piano won't catch up to the VST is like saying in 1921 that man will never fly to the moon.

I don't like hype, so I'll agree with this:
Originally Posted by OU812
Is it time we stopped buying into the hype?
But not this:
Originally Posted by OU812
You're just not going to find perfect acoustic piano touch, feel and sound in a Digital.
I think you can find the perfect touch and feel ... in those high-end pianos you cited in your original post.

This comparison is not relevant:
Originally Posted by OU812
My Tesla doesn't sound like my V8 Mustang.
This is Piano World, not Auto World.

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Originally Posted by Doug M.
It's slightly different regarding pianos and cars [...]
The experience of a Mustang with the visceral rumble of the engine is nothing more than what the thrill of riding a horse was to the pre-Car era: pleasant but people will move on, except for the few petrol heads who like fixing cars. Nobody is going to install devices in cars that simulate the rumbling of a powerful V8 engine lol.
therefore it is exactly the same thing, if, as you say, you're not a "petrol-head". Tesla have no feel, no passion, no history, they're computers on wheels, made by engineers of the Y generation, to the Y generation. No matter how fast they are will change that. I understand most people don't care about any of these.
Understand that to 99% of the people, a fined tuned VST sounds just like an acoustic, yet it doesn't mean it's the same thing

Last edited by Nigo; 06/18/21 06:39 AM.
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Originally Posted by Nigo
Originally Posted by Doug M.
It's slightly different regarding pianos and cars [...]
The experience of a Mustang with the visceral rumble of the engine is nothing more than what the thrill of riding a horse was to the pre-Car era: pleasant but people will move on, except for the few petrol heads who like fixing cars. Nobody is going to install devices in cars that simulate the rumbling of a powerful V8 engine lol.
therefore it is exactly the same thing, if, as you say, you're not a "petrol-head". Tesla have no feel, no passion, no history, they're computers on wheels, made by engineers of the Y generation, to the Y generation. No matter how fast they are will change that. I understand most people don't care about any of these.
Understand that to 99% of the people, a fined tuned VST sounds just like an acoustic, yet it doesn't mean it's the same thing

My point is that digital pianos have improved vastly and will continue to be improved due to the demand for closer approximations to an acoustic piano; whereas, nobody will try to make a Tesla feel like a muscle car, because few people actually want a muscle car. That's not equivalent to our forum, where everyone wants an acoustic but feel constrained by financial or home environment situations not to have a real acoustic.

Users want better digital pianos, and what they mean by that is more authentic to the real experience of playing an acoustic. Now you can argue that the experiences are miles apart but compared to the 1990's, the digital pianos have vastly closed the gap. That can and hopefully will continue.


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Originally Posted by OU812
Inspired by another thread.
I know a bunch of us have spent 5, 6,7k plus on Digitals and have bought into the marketing hype. "The ultimate Acoustic touch in a Digital" but when we go soul-searching we realise it's all marketing hype and smoke n mirrors.
Speak for yourself! Most of us don't read the marketing hype let alone believe it!

And that also applies to salespeople smile

Last edited by Burkey; 06/18/21 07:05 AM.

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We all have brains but, as adults, we rarely upgrade the software. At least that’s not the case with digital instruments.


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The issue is surely that ...

Some pianos come with strings attached LOL

Ok I will get my coat smile

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Originally Posted by Killomiter
The issue is surely that ...

Some pianos come with strings attached LOL

Ok I will get my coat smile
Nice one.

Why is a digital piano always better than an acoustic?
It doesn't come with any strings attached :-p

Add that the the Xmas cracker (bon-bon) jokes list smile

Last edited by Burkey; 06/18/21 07:42 AM.

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1. The frequency of such threads is increasing.

2. I sense that the Acoustic has endured the worst of enemies: TIME.

Accept it guys, and we can move on. Or can we?


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
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Originally Posted by Wie Waldi
@OU812
Coming to you A/E guitar comparison:
I would not say an E-guitar is like a D-piano (I slept over that).

I would use that analogy:
A: An acoustic guitar is an organ.
B: An electric guitar with valve amp is an acoustic piano.
C: An electric guitar with a digital modeling amp is a digital piano.

C tries to emulate B with digital sound production.
C let you select which exact model of B it is supposed to emulate.
C also tries to emulate A to a certain extent, because the input device follow same rules... (Yes, some modeling amps feature acoustic-guitar simulation nowadays. Same as digital pianos have organ sounds.)

I can go even further in my analogy: The E-guitar itself if the action. The amplifier is the sound production.
A $2000 Fender strat with a Marshal amp, it is like a Kawai GL10 grand.
A $2000 Fender strat with a digital modeling amp, it is like a Kawai NV10.
A $2000 Fender strat with both digital modeling amp and a real Marshal amp is like a Kawai GL-10 ATX2

Then what is a DP with a digital modelling amp?
What is a DP with a Marshall vlve amp?
What is a DP with both Pianoteq U3 and a Marshall Amp?

Answer to the last Q . . . . .

A wrecked U3 . . . .


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The fact we all knew this thread would go at least 3 pages when we saw the title tells me were a long way from stopping to compare digitals to acoustics. grin

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Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Killomiter
The issue is surely that ...

Some pianos come with strings attached LOL

Ok I will get my coat smile
Nice one.

Why is a digital piano always better than an acoustic?
It doesn't come with any strings attached :-p
Okay, I've finally nailed her:

Why is it easier to fall in love with a digital piano than an acoustic?
There are no strings attached!!!


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Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Killomiter
The issue is surely that ...

Some pianos come with strings attached LOL

Ok I will get my coat smile
Nice one.

Why is a digital piano always better than an acoustic?
It doesn't come with any strings attached :-p
Okay, I've finally nailed her:

Why is it easier to fall in love with a digital piano than an acoustic?
There are no strings attached!!!

No!!! That's lust and its short term!

Also, in many parts of the world, the tying of string(s) around neck and/or hands is a mark of life long commitment!

I think this thread has reached its end and we can wait for the next one (it's right around the corner!)


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
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