2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Week Deals
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
38 members (ChrisGoesPiano, Dariusz D, AmyBNE, Calavera, cygnusdei, 15 invisible), 522 guests, and 420 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
L
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
if the nord had vcp1 action this post wouldn't exit. haha. man that would be awesome. the keyscape pianos sound nice. and it would save money. but the nord pianos are great, especially the uprights and rhodes and such. and the always on aspect is attractive.

the ravencroft modified vcp1 sounds great, but man it's expensive.

so far my thought is nord grand or vc1 + keyscape. i cjrrently have galaxy and sampletekk pianos. which is ironic, as the sampletekk libraries are what the nord bases their sounds on. i think they originally worked with sampletekk on the nord piano.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
L
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
I've been thinking about this probably too much. haha. but it's a big purchase and i want it to be something I'm happy with...

so...

i could buy the vcp1 + keyscapes + a mabook air m1 and it would be about the price of the nord grand.

to satisfy my always on issue i could turn my existing macbook pro into a permanent piano VST always on the vcp1. then i get a new laptop, and the best piano action and sound...

that is a very tempting proposition. I'd still rather not be tied to a laptop, but at least that would make it a dedicated laptop. and i could keep the nord ans use the vcp1 to trigger it if i needed to. options.

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,721
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,721
Originally Posted by luisdent
i could buy the vcp1 + keyscapes + a mabook air m1 and it would be about the price of the nord grand.

to satisfy my always on issue i could turn my existing macbook pro into a permanent piano VST always on the vcp1. then i get a new laptop, and the best piano action and sound...

I don't know how quickly the Intel MacBooks return from standby, however on my M1 MacBook Air's it's instantaneous - as soon as you open the the screen, the computer is ready to use.

This might be a factory if you're seeking an "instant on" setup.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
L
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
even my 2014 mbp opens in seconds from sleep. and i have have the vst open there is nothing to load...

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,669
S
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,669
The MP7SE has good Rhodes sounds and the RHIII action. If the Nord Grand with virtually the same action is worth an additional $1900 to you, go for it.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
L
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
The MP7SE has good Rhodes sounds and the RHIII action. If the Nord Grand with virtually the same action is worth an additional $1900 to you, go for it.

personally i find the kawai sounds lacking. so for a standalone piano, yes nord is worth it. but if using a vst can also be viable that is an option. but I've read the vcp1 action is better than the mp7se and some even prefer it over the mp11se...

Last edited by luisdent; 06/20/21 07:27 PM.
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
L
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
[Linked Image]

as you can see, i don't have a lot of space to work with. just setup the nord grand. my immediate impressions after a few minutes is that the action isn't as good as i hoped, but a bit better than the np1. the key tops feel like plastic. I'm not sure what the ivory feel is referring to.

playing near the back of the keys isn't right. it seems like the pivot point is so close that it is hard to press them down there or something. not sure. the fatar is better in that one regard. but i think weight and action feeling are better on the grand. but i think i preferred the texture of the roland pha4 keys.

I'll see how i get used to it and if my impressions change. it's hard, because I realize it may never match a piano, but it's more the expressiveness it allows that matters the most. and I'm not sure how much better that is yet...

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,669
S
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,669
Originally Posted by luisdent
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
The MP7SE has good Rhodes sounds and the RHIII action. If the Nord Grand with virtually the same action is worth an additional $1900 to you, go for it.

personally i find the kawai sounds lacking. so for a standalone piano, yes nord is worth it. but if using a vst can also be viable that is an option. but I've read the vcp1 action is better than the mp7se and some even prefer it over the mp11se...

It's VPC1. It is a better action than what is in a Nord Grand or Kawai MP7SE, but it also weighs 65lbs.

For EPs the balanced hammer action in a Nord Grand likely would be preferred to the graded hammer action in most DP's.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
L
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
So getting used to the action I notice a few things, first, it doesn't feel like ivory or whatever fake ivory real pianos use. Second, when I get really expressive playing softer music, I end up with a lot of "missed" notes. Where I press the key, but it doesn't make sound because I didn't fully press it or press it firmly enough or something. It isn't a weight issue, as I've played grands with heavier key force needed. But it is something with the way the action works. I have the same problem with the fatar keyboard on the np1.

It's almost as though I want to press it gently and softly, but I need to press is enough to get the sound. So sometimes it is too loud of a note, so i instinctively try and play it softly, but then i don't get the note to sound. So I feel like the difference between making the note sound and not sound is too sensitive. This happens on any velocity curve setting. So it still has the main issue i had with the np1. Although overall, I'd say it is an improved action mostly.

I was just hoping that that issue would have been eliminated. And that the keys would have been less slippy and more like the pha4 ivory feel...

So now I feel like I wish i could try the vpc1. And if it were better, I'd need to decide if i want the nord sounds. They are possibly the best. The 3d grand and amber upright are my two favorites that would probably get 90% of my time. The dx7 sample is amazing as are the rhodes and there are a few really beautiful pad/synth/piano type presets i dig. But I could have all of pianos and keyboards on my np1 and just use it when needed or trigger it with the vpc1.

I also think the nord monitors are going back. I have the iloud monitors for $300 and they are every bit as good, smaller, and cheaper. They are more reference frequency response, whereas the nord monitors add some warmth and softness to the high end. Almost like they tried to make it fuller and more intimate, but not really true to the sound. Which is odd seeing as how they spent so much time getting the pianos sounds just right only to portray them differently. They sound great, but $400 to be able to mount them is a bit much. I can buy a second set of iloud monitors and just sit them on whatever keyboard i get or put them on little shelves or something.

Anyway, i'm torn as I love the nord in general, but the main purpose was to get a better action, and I'm not sure if it is better enough... or how much better still the vpc1would be... I don't want any heavier of a key press unless it is also able to handle super soft presses accurately.

Last edited by luisdent; 06/20/21 11:13 PM.
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
L
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by luisdent
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
The MP7SE has good Rhodes sounds and the RHIII action. If the Nord Grand with virtually the same action is worth an additional $1900 to you, go for it.

personally i find the kawai sounds lacking. so for a standalone piano, yes nord is worth it. but if using a vst can also be viable that is an option. but I've read the vcp1 action is better than the mp7se and some even prefer it over the mp11se...

It's VPC1. It is a better action than what is in a Nord Grand or Kawai MP7SE, but it also weighs 65lbs.

For EPs the balanced hammer action in a Nord Grand likely would be preferred to the graded hammer action in most DP's.

Sorry, I keep thinking in my head "virtual control piano" but it's "virtual piano controller", my bad....

Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 194
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 194
Keep in mind, Nord Grand is NOT a digital piano.
It is a digital E-piano or a digital keybard if you want so.
The most important thing is, they removed the grading of the keyboard, meaning the lowest bass note needs the same force as the highest treble note. If one plays stuff like Fender Rhodes or Wurlitzers this is great, but if one is used to an acoustic piano, this unweighted keyboard could be irritating.
Others here also mentioned, Nord removed the letoff, but this should not be an issue. I think if piano builders of acoustics would be able to build an action without that letoff thing, they would have done it. It is an imperfection, digitals try to emulate.

Here is a vid of a (sales-)channel that always tell about every piano to be a great instrument. At 50 sec he speaks about the action with removed weighting. If this channel does not conclude an instrument to be super, this means something. (Choose english subtitles)

Last edited by Wie Waldi; 06/21/21 01:00 AM.

Self teaching Adult Beginner without method | Kawai CN29, Senn HD560s
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
L
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
[Linked Image]

ok. i set them up side by side and the grand is definitely a better action. hands down (pun intended). and side by side i also feel the difference in ivory feel. i wish it was even more ivory feeling, but the grab is definitely a bit more matte and less glossy feeling plastic.

the np1 feels more squishy and heavy in a bad way. the grand is a bit more clacky in its attack (a good thing) while being slightly lighter in feel. together that makes it feel more precise and it definitely allows for more expression. I'm going to mess with midi to see how much the np1 can do with the grand as a controller.

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,650
C
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,650
Quote
. . . playing near the back of the keys isn't right. it seems like the pivot point is so close that it is hard to press them down there or something. not sure. the fatar is better in that one regard. but i think weight and action feeling are better on the grand. but i think i preferred the texture of the roland pha4 keys.

If "short pivot length" bothers you, I _think_ the MP11Se has the longest available pivot length.

There should be a table, somewhere (on this site?) that gives pivot lengths for various DP actions.

Response of a keyboard to ppp playing is tricky. Acoustic pianos (as you know) have a minimum velocity that will make the hammer hit the key.

Some early DP's didn't -- they'd produce a "Note On" message no matter how slowly the key was depressed, when it hit bottom.

You might be able to make a keyboard behave the way you wanted it to behave, by modifying the "velocity map" (that translates "physical velocity" into "MIDI velocity"). Most VST's let you do that. The VPC1 (I think) has some MIDI-velocity mapping capability -- I don't know if it's hardware (within the VPC1), or computer-resident software.

Last edited by Charles Cohen; 06/21/21 02:21 AM.

. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
L
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 242
so i used the grand to control the np1 via midi. and i had the bench so i could quickly swivel back and forth and play both actions, with both triggering the np1 sounds. interesting results.

the pianos sound very different, but it is because the action on the np1 doesn't allow soft playing at all. when i play the grand action the np1 sounds like the grand. so the piano sounds are basically identical but the np1 action keeps you from hearing so. in fact, i need to set the np1 key touch setting to medium to get the grand action to make it sound equivalent to the np1 action on low.

in other words, even at the softest touch seeing, the np1 sounds like it is being played harder. and even using the medium np1 touch setting with the grand action, the control of dynamics is much more even using the grand action. so whether or not it is like a piano, the grand is definitely more precise. less squishy. more even attack and hammer feel. simply better expressiveness and control period.

I'd be curious to trigger the nord with the vpc1. I've read that kawai uses different midi values for the 3 sensor hammery mechanism which cause note issues?

can anyone verify that?

I'd like to try a vpc1, but not sure if i can find one...

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,554
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,554
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by luisdent
i have a few good VST pianos. I'm hoping the action in the nord grand is good enough. I'm not gonna lie, i think so far the roland actions have been the best I've tried. but as you said, most are entry level at the store.
The Nord Grand has the RHIII action found in the ES920 or MP7SE, but with some modifications requested by Clavia. Clavia and Kawai are not publicizing the changes, but some PW posts suggest that weights were removed to make it a balanced weight rather than graded weight action, and that letoff/escapement simulation was eliminated. If you will use VSTs, the Kawai MP7SE or ES920 are much cheaper than a Nord Grand if you like the RHIII action. At that point, you might as well add the Yamaha P-515 and Roland FP90X to your short list.

I don't understand what the point of testing entry-level toys at guitar center was, when someone is into boutique stage pianos. I would play some Clavinova, Concert Artist and Roland LX models, then get the slab edition of them. This is what I did and I ended up with the Yamaha P-515.


Yamaha P-515
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,082
C
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,082
Originally Posted by luisdent
I've read that kawai uses different midi values for the 3 sensor hammery mechanism which cause note issues?

can anyone verify that?

That's quite vague. Different in what way? What kind of note issues?

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,551
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,551
Originally Posted by luisdent
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by luisdent
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
The MP7SE has good Rhodes sounds and the RHIII action. If the Nord Grand with virtually the same action is worth an additional $1900 to you, go for it.

personally i find the kawai sounds lacking. so for a standalone piano, yes nord is worth it. but if using a vst can also be viable that is an option. but I've read the vcp1 action is better than the mp7se and some even prefer it over the mp11se...

It's VPC1. It is a better action than what is in a Nord Grand or Kawai MP7SE, but it also weighs 65lbs.

For EPs the balanced hammer action in a Nord Grand likely would be preferred to the graded hammer action in most DP's.

Sorry, I keep thinking in my head "virtual control piano" but it's "virtual piano controller", my bad....


Technically, it's VSTi where the i stands for instrument.
I have played the Nord Grand along side the CP88, the RD2000, the Roland Fantom 88 and cross-checked against the Kawai ES8 to compare action and sound.

I would say that the Nord Grand is a good 20% better than the CP88 (which is basically a Nord clone). The piano samples in the Nord are better than the CFX grand without binaural and string resonance that's in the CP-SERIES.

Actually, the white grand is a gorgeous piano sample, and I would say only surpassed by the Yamaha CLP685 I played near by. That has full binaural sampling. However, there is a downside to the Nord Grand: it just doesn't respond like a real grand piano from a dynamics perspective. IMHO, the ES8 felt more like a piano than the Nord Grand. The Kawai Shiguru concert grand sample in the ES8 and MP7SE is darker, more nuanced, and slightly more mellow than either the Yamaha or Nord patches.

Having recently heard a video showing Es8 versus ES920, I would say that the sample on the ES920 would be awesome to play. Certainly surpassing the yamaha CFX in the P515 (it's now showing its age a bit), and I think IMHO equal or better than the Nord Grand in terms of tone and fidelity, although they are very different sounding pianos, so subjective taste comes into play.

The MP7SE will play more like a piano than the Nord Grand, and having played the Nord for over an hour, I would not swap my MP7SE. The MP7SE is still IMO one of the best all round stage pianos, with awesome epianos, synth and organ sounds. When you compare the Nord to the MP7SE, there are more functions on the Kawai, and better triple pedal units, better build quality, and midi controlling abilities. Nord wins really only on weight and live control knobs (but the UI on the Kawai is slightly more advanced and still very simple to use).

Thus, out of the MP7SE, the Nord Grand and the ES920, I would give it to the ES920 on sound but the MP7SE wins on stage piano tools and just being so solid in all areas.

The Kawai MP11SE and Kawai VPC1 both have better actions than either of the others mentioned, hence why from a pianists POV, those two are superior. A used MP11 with VSTi is also an option.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,551
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,551
Originally Posted by luisdent
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by luisdent
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
The MP7SE has good Rhodes sounds and the RHIII action. If the Nord Grand with virtually the same action is worth an additional $1900 to you, go for it.

personally i find the kawai sounds lacking. so for a standalone piano, yes nord is worth it. but if using a vst can also be viable that is an option. but I've read the vcp1 action is better than the mp7se and some even prefer it over the mp11se...

It's VPC1. It is a better action than what is in a Nord Grand or Kawai MP7SE, but it also weighs 65lbs.

For EPs the balanced hammer action in a Nord Grand likely would be preferred to the graded hammer action in most DP's.

Sorry, I keep thinking in my head "virtual control piano" but it's "virtual piano controller", my bad....


Technically, it's VSTi where the i stands for instrument.
I have played the Nord Grand along side the CP88, the RD2000, the Roland Fantom 88 and cross-checked against the Kawai ES8 to compare action and sound.

I would say that the Nord Grand is a good 20% better than the CP88 (which is basically a Nord clone). The piano samples in the Nord are better than the CFX grand without binaural and string resonance that's in the CP-SERIES.

Actually, the white grand is a gorgeous piano sample, and I would say only surpassed by the Yamaha CLP685 I played near by. That has full binaural sampling. However, there is a downside to the Nord Grand: it just doesn't respond like a real grand piano from a dynamics perspective. IMHO, the ES8 felt more like a piano than the Nord Grand. The Kawai Shiguru concert grand sample in the ES8 and MP7SE is darker, more nuanced, and slightly more mellow than either the Yamaha or Nord patches.

Having recently heard a video showing Es8 versus ES920, I would say that the sample on the ES920 would be awesome to play. Certainly surpassing the yamaha CFX in the P515 (it's now showing its age a bit), and I think IMHO equal or better than the Nord Grand in terms of tone and fidelity, although they are very different sounding pianos, so subjective taste comes into play.

The MP7SE will play more like a piano than the Nord Grand, and having played the Nord for over an hour, I would not swap my MP7SE. The MP7SE is still IMO one of the best all round stage pianos, with awesome epianos, synth and organ sounds. When you compare the Nord to the MP7SE, there are more functions on the Kawai, and better triple pedal units, better build quality, and midi controlling abilities. Nord wins really only on weight and live control knobs (but the UI on the Kawai is slightly more advanced and still very simple to use).

Thus, out of the MP7SE, the Nord Grand and the ES920, I would give it to the ES920 on sound but the MP7SE wins on stage piano tools and just being so solid in all areas.

The Kawai MP11SE and Kawai VPC1 both have better actions than either of the others mentioned, hence why from a pianists POV, those two are superior. A used MP11 with VSTi is also an option. The main difference between the MP11 and MP11SE is that the triple pedal is better on the MP11SE (and MP7SE), and of course, you get the SK concert grand 9' sample on the SE version.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,551
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,551
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Originally Posted by luisdent
I've read that kawai uses different midi values for the 3 sensor hammery mechanism which cause note issues?

can anyone verify that?

That's quite vague. Different in what way? What kind of note issues?

Best ask Kawai James.
Even if it was an issue, Kawai regularly update the firmware to patch issues raised by users, so I would check with KJ.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 20
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 20
I see it like this. With a good midi controller. Studiologic SL88 and a laptop, cheap interface, and monitors you've got endless sounds. There are so many fantastic piano libraries. Even the free Hammersmith library which also works in the free kontakt 6 player is better than the nord piano or any piano that I've heard coming out of a digital piano. Piano book has a ton of good libraries, spitfire audio labs has free Rhodes and Wurlitzer pianos and they sound incredible. Really.

So. I think it's much better to use a laptop and a good controller vs a dedicated digital piano. The idea of paying for a digital piano is a bit silly to me when laptops are far more superior and have endless options. Synths, drums etc etc.
Plus you can record yourself within a DAW.

The only reason to get a digital piano is if you're actually touring and or playing lots of gigs. Or you're technologically challenged. I can't think of any other reason.
Mac mini M1's are cheap, silent, and powerful!
That's what I am running and I am super happy with it.

Last edited by Dallon426; 06/21/21 05:51 AM.
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Es920 production stopped??
by playplayplay - 12/07/21 12:07 AM
Mehlin & Sons Piano Identification
by LeviWhitted - 12/06/21 08:37 PM
jack position button not present in old grand
by f4tune81 - 12/06/21 08:11 PM
Thinking about recital #65
by stevedoz - 12/06/21 04:28 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics210,420
Posts3,151,118
Members103,539
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5