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That's why for the OP, the VPC1 is ideal, although as mentioned, the MP11SE has a nicer action still, and better triple pedal design, both of which would make playing a VST better.

I think the SL88 isn't going to satisfy the OP due to its action, but value wise, it's excellent.

also, the free hammersmith sounds noticeably less real than the nord to me. the pro one is ok. so everyone has their opinions, but as an audio engineer who wants to record his piano, the nord is one of the best I've heard. keyscapes is ok, but I've heard issues with that as well.



look at my comment there and there are numerous places i can easily hear sample problems, and the reviewer doesn't even notice them. and those are deal breaking issues. i could never release a song with those noises in my track let alone enjoy playing that. and it's frustrating that more people don't notice them, because it's hard to know if that was an issue with his setup or what. but there is no demo of the vst. there are not many i find realistic frankly. so to get a nice controller only to find that i can't isolate good vst instruments would be disappointing. the mp11se for instance... i would not be happy with the onboard piano and yet so many think it sounds amazing. to my ears it doesn't pass the realism test.

so while many people say "there are so many vst out there" I've maybe heard 2 that i find acceptable, one of which has possible sample cutoff issues and the other is tied to proprietary hardware. I'm not discounting that there are great vst pianos. i just don't think it's as easy as "buy a controller and a vst and you can't lose". I'll need to do serious research to see what is out there. and i may still want to trigger a nord for the pianos. so that makes me wonder if the nord grand is still a simpler, better option. it's also not tied to a computer, and while that is not a difficult thing to setup, it's a computer. I'm also a technical support specialist. and computers constsntly have issues. OS updates, compatibility issues, performance glitches, etc. etc. i could theoretically have a nord for 30 years with zero changes. having a computer will guarantee that at some point I'll need to deal with troubleshooting, configuration, etc. not to mention just having one physically at the keyboard.

a macbook air is probably the only way that would seem feasible to me. i don't want a monitor and keyboard setup in my living room. in a studio, sure, but not in a tiny living room. so it's just specific to each use case. i am still considering the vpc1 idea for its flexibility and action. but even then, i haven't played it, and what one finds great i may not like. and not having access to try one is pretty disconcerting at that price point. i still have some thinking to do.

i appreciate all the input and suggestions. can anyone point me to more sample libraries they believe sound as good as the nord?

I don't know man. I've heard amazing sample libraries and they are getting better. Ravenscroft from UAD. UVI has great libraries, kontakt as well. Etc. My biggest complaint with most libraries are the fact that they don't support half damping. I just don't understand why they wouldn't. I don't know if the nord has half damping but I doubt it.
The other day I was talking to a piano technician and he told me that his favorite piano action and the one he found the most authentic was on the Yamaha CP-88. He said it's far superior to anything he's played including the Nord. The sounds are also really impressive so that might be something worth looking into

it does half damper. yes. and the cp88 is a valid option, but i played the ydp184 which is gh3, but not wood, and it didn't really wow me in any way. just a generally good action. is the cp88 better somehow? other than texture? or does the wood change the action mechanics?

Digital piano tone is highly subjective. It took me a while to adjust from my Yamaha to my Kawai. However, the mind adjusts and eventually becomes attuned to the nuances of a Kawai piano sample.

The Nord white grand has a lovely bright tone but it reacts weirdly when moving across the dynamic range. To me, this kills it as a piano, but not as an instrument.

Those who like the Nord will probably enjoy the P515.

No, the wood is irrelevant to the mechanics. The CP88 action is very fast, unnaturally so. Great for fast repeating notes. What lets it down for playing piano to oneself or solo pieces is the lack of string resonance and binaural sampling. With these facets missing, even the earlier CP4 competes with the CP88 piano sample. On the other hand, the P515 has a more piano like action (NWX) and the CFX sample contains string resonance and binaural sampling. The only downside to the instrument is the downweight is on the heavy side. Much heavier than the FP90X and the ES920. That said, it's just a matter of getting used to it.

i dislike then nord white grand. ironically for some reasons i dislike most other sampled pianos. it also has some weird noises in the lower mid register that are annoying. but the 3d grand is probably the best I've heard from nord. the studio is second and the amber upright is possibly the most realistic I've ever heard albeit an upright..

I've heard and played many pianos and can guarantee if i hear issues up front i will never likely grow to like it. in fact usually the opposite. the roland supermatural piano sounded ok initially (i know it isn't sampled) but as i played it more the fake metallic synthesis just really got on my nerves. the dynamics are superb since it is essentially more dynamic, but that is it. my aunt has a high end yamaha digital piano that is supposedly one of their top sampled pianos. i don't remember the model, but it was ok. nothing objectionable, but never once have i heard a yamaha sample that didn't immediately strike me as fake. good, sure. but would never fool me.

I'm not criticizing any pianos or anyone who likes them. I'm just saying that i know my preferences and these just don't convince me sonically. i have played and recorded acoustic pianos and mix and master music, so maybe i listen for different things? i don't know. but when i play something that sounds "like" a piano but isn't "fully like" a real piano i dislike the experience. I'd rather play an e piano or rhodes or something synthesized. but when something like the nord or maybe keyscape from what I've heard sounds so good, i enjoy it greatly. but that's where the action just takes it from meh, to oooh, to wow. I'm at ooh. and i want wow. hahaha

i called a kawaii dealer in dallas which is hours away, but he said I'm not going to find a kawaii vpc1 or mp11se anywhere even if i called 50 stores. and they're all backordered online. so maybe i need to try a high end yamaha or roland action and call it a day?

So you are saying that VSTs are not an option for people who require support for partial pedal effects with the damper pedal.

yeah, I'm trying to get used to the nord grand too before i pass judgement. the main purpose of this post is really about the action. i can find a vst or trigger the nord or whatever. but for the price, considering all factors, should i be stressing to try and find a better keybed to try? i just want a big purchase like this to not be rash and lose a lot of potential value if there are other options.

I like the Kawai ES110, it's quite playable.

FWIW, on VST's --

Pianoteq supports both "continuous half-pedalling" and "string resonance".

. . . But you have to accept its sound, and some people don't.

I suspect one problem with sampling "half-pedalling", is the need for very precise adjustment of the pedal and damper mechanism of the source AP.

You'd want to sample a few different "half-pedal" positions, across the keyboard. During performance, a player adjusts his foot to the individual piano, to get the sound he wants, _as he plays_. During sampling, I don't know if that will work or not.

All you can do is try out the various options--- as many as possible - - - and match the attributes of the pianos with your own values.

For instance, I didn't buy a VPC1 because I wanted a stage instrument. There was no competition at the MP7SE price point, and very few instruments have similar capabilities with the quality of action. (really only the RD2000). Thus, I opted for the Kawai knowing a VST would be available if I ever wanted an Apiano upgrade.

The MP11SE is even better, but it's so heavy that you need a roady to carry it.

The Nord Grand is super expensive and value is lacking. With the spare cash of buying a Kawai or Roland, you can buy really good monitors etc. The real benefit of the Nord is access to the sound libraries which means that you get upgrades for quite a while, until the memory required exceeds the on board available memory.

I think if straight piano is the goal, then the gadget aspect of stage pianos are superfluous. Billy Joel takes a Kawai around and uses VST instruments along with two Receptor stage computers so if one fails, he's got the other. Why didn't he buy the Nord? He's a pianist who values the action more.

So what do you value?

You know, action aside, the Dexibell Vivo S9 pro has better samples for acoustic piano. That's an amazing instrument, but the action is below par. Till you test a bunch of these instruments in one session, you won't easily be able to evaluate what you really want.

i think if "want" is the key word, i probably want them all! haha. the mp11se seems like the best fit for my needs. even more than the vpc1. it has a respectable built in sound library, the best action, works well as a vst controller, is fairly attractive, cheaper than the nord.

i could buy the mp11se and a macbook air m1. trigger my existing nord if i want those pianos.thst seems like the best value proposition. as much as i love the nord sounds, i already have them. just not the better action...

assuming all that is true, the issue now is finding one...

I am sayiing mosy VST's do not support that. I know pianteq does and ravenscroft 275 does support it. But in general most do not.

I think you should try a studiologic grand 88. I have heard good things about them and it is by far the cheaper option out there. Or a Yamaha CP1 or CP4.

Or........ Just say screw it and get a Yamaha Silent Piano. I have also looked at that option. I am kicking myself because I just missed out on buying a fender rhodes 73 for 800€ Missed it by a day!

no offense but i don't want anything with a fatar keybed. :-P

May I ask if you can provide some links/references regarding this, please?

I believe Maurus (a respondent in this thread) uses a VPC1 to trigger sounds on his Nord, so it may be worthwhile contacting him to confirm the setup.

I've never had any problems using an MP8II to trigger sound on NE3, however that's a 2-sensor action.

Kind regards,
James
x

issue

apparently nord even acknowledged this. I'm not sure if it was ever resolved or even an issue on the grand...

If anyone is interested, albeit a bit of a random song, here is the first thing I have recorded on my nord grand.

Improv for Lovers

Royal Grand 3D. a few db of hall reverb. Otherwise, stock piano sound.

sorry. it was 2.8db of stage reverb :-P