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Nahum Offline OP
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http://journal.ru.ac.za/index.php/africanmusic/article/view/1961

South African ethnomusicologist Dave Dargie highlights the fundamental difference between the learning process of music and its role in traditional African society compared to Western ones; as well as an inverted order of goals in the education process.

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It is a very fascinating paper.

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If the first piano lesson was to be built on the traditional African model, then first the teacher would have to play the music that he intended to give to the newcomer in the future; and the student would have to join the music with body movements or dance, or rhythmic claps, or singing - everything that is used on the child's preliminary test before starting school, and then thrown aside. Upside down!

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Thank you for sharing the article. It was very interesting.

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Music in traditional societies involves everybody in a group joining in. Those who can drum would do the drumming, those who can play instruments can play whatever and the rest just sing & dance.

Instead of lessons where a teacher would do a quick demo and the student repeat after, we can use a duet approach. If possible, get 2 or more people playing different instruments to be in the same lesson. A violin would play alongside a piano student as a duet. If the tuning & rhythm is off, 1 would negotiate with the other getting a piece to sound properly.

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Originally Posted by Sgisela
Thank you for sharing the article. It was very interesting.
It's my pleasure!
The only question is how it turns out that an important article, which was published almost a quarter of a century ago, was never discussed by Western music teachers (I am not one of them).

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Perhaps It's a case of cultural segregation mechanisms? even in the context of academy...

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Originally Posted by manueru-san
Perhaps It's a case of cultural segregation mechanisms? even in the context of academy...
In the 21st century? I do not believe; we have not had this in Israel for a long time. But perhaps academic laziness ...

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I might have a conceptual confusion there, perhaps it's academic laziness, at any rate, great article, thanks for sharing!

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Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by Sgisela
Thank you for sharing the article. It was very interesting.
It's my pleasure!
The only question is how it turns out that an important article, which was published almost a quarter of a century ago, was never discussed by Western music teachers (I am not one of them).
For me it is because the western life style is different, Both for teachers and for children. My son’s music school is probably doing some attempts on this direction. In addition of weekly individual lesson, they organise a collective music induction lesson with children who are learning music. This lesson should help the children to discover where are the sounds such as rain drops, bells, birds.... But unfortunately, my son is having other activities which overlaps with the time. I don’t think one hour per week is enough to take the effect, but it is still very difficult to organise. In my case I can spend much more time to show my boy.


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I think the western education in general is using standards to “correct” human instinct
The more native african approach is try to capture and interpret the human instinct.


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Originally Posted by zonzi
I think the western education in general is using standards to “correct” human instinct
The more native african approach is try to capture and interpret the human instinct.
The new is the well-forgotten old! The outstanding German piano teacher of the first half of the 19th century Friedrich Wieck (father of Clara Wieck - Schumann) emphasized in his "Piano and Singing" that the study of note and playing with notes should be started after 60-80 lessons; and in the case of his daughter, (who became an outstanding pianist at the level of her husband Robert Schumann), he did so a year after the beginning of her studies.
However, this year was devoted to the development of musicality in connection with the instrument - singing and acquaintance with the timbre and dynamic potential of the instrument; as well as practical theory on the keyboard - scales and chords.

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Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by Sgisela
Thank you for sharing the article. It was very interesting.
It's my pleasure!
The only question is how it turns out that an important article, which was published almost a quarter of a century ago, was never discussed by Western music teachers (I am not one of them).
I surmise it was because it was published in a South African journal that was not widely accessible in the "West" and probably only read by those with an interest in African music. Excellent article though.


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Originally Posted by jazzyprof
I surmise it was because it was published in a South African journal that was not widely accessible in the "West" and probably only read by those with an interest in African music.

Back in the 70s of the 20th century, many musicologists rejected the overtone theory as the reason for the gravitation of the dominant into the tonic, focusing only on the gravity of the leading notes . At that time, overwhelming masses of musicologists had no idea about African music on percussion instruments, which had a history of many hundreds of years; which practically proved the correctness of the connection with the
overtones theory . And since they are not familiar with musical culture, why read articles about it? The time of these theoretical dinosaurs and their victims , in general, has already passed, but in the discussions on the forums, the age of 30 - 40 still does not find its expression, or is not expressed enough.

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I think I should remember that many things have changed since Clara Schumann's time:
in a 19th century German city, I guess what we can see and we can hear is the birds sings, water canals, rain drops, wind with tree, water/wind mill, people complaining, church bell, horse....
What we see/hear today in a city: car engine, whatever from smartphone.

The method of 19th century will not work today, especially if someone is learning 19th or before music, it will definitely need some additional steps to see more natural things before 19th's music.

The case of academics is that many of them prefer to remain in their authoritative area.


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Originally Posted by zonzi
The case of academics is that many of them prefer to remain in their authoritative area.

I would add Eurocentric.

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Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by zonzi
The case of academics is that many of them prefer to remain in their authoritative area.

I would add Eurocentric.

Eurocentric is inevitable, because both teachers and instruments or other related materials are the cheapest in the western society. Since the people are living in a very industrialized society, the intuition and the respect to the natural rules are very rare and not well looked upon.


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Originally Posted by zonzi
Since the people are living in a very industrialized society, the intuition and the respect to the natural rules are very rare and not well looked upon.
The ignorance of the consumers of teacher services can be understood; but the militant ignorance of the teachers !?

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Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by zonzi
Since the people are living in a very industrialized society, the intuition and the respect to the natural rules are very rare and not well looked upon.
The ignorance of the consumers of teacher services can be understood; but the militant ignorance of the teachers !?
what are their arguments?


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Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by zonzi
The case of academics is that many of them prefer to remain in their authoritative area.

I would add Eurocentric.

Nothing wrong with Eurocentric. Our piano repertoire originated mostly from Europe. We are not under any obligation to teach things we don't know. For instance, I studied Native music, Hindustani music and Japanese music at university. But it all has very little in common with our Western piano repertoire. I wouldn't know where to begin to teach these types of music. So, it's okay to teach what I know. Plus I prefer our Western music. Nothing wrong with that.


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