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@AlexBIn: I will post photos once everything settled in with decoration and so on. smile

@Pete14:

Quote
feck it
1. An expression of indifference, apathy, or nonchalance. "Feck" here is a euphemistic, though still mildly vulgar, substitution for "[censored]." Primarily heard in Ireland.
You know what, feck it, I'm tired of waiting—let's go home.
A: "Do you want another drink?" B: "Feck it, why not? I'll just deal with the hangover tomorrow."
2. An exclamation of dismay, exasperation, anger, or frustration. Primarily heard in Ireland.
Ah, feck it! I can't find my keys anywhere!
Feck it, I just had the car fixed and now you've put a dent in it!

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/feck+it

@dr_z: I searched for an upgrade of my FP-30 for a year now. Until I stumbled across the Casios only the NU1X/N1 or NV-5/NV-10 seemed like a significant upgrade to the Casio, but they are much more expensive. I had enough time and have to trust my gut now. smile And yes, I really had the impression that the "top register resonance" shined when I played it yesterday. It was just beautiful.


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Originally Posted by Pete14
What does it mean, to “feck it”?

Isn't it like "Frak it" or "Frell it"? 🤓

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Hello,

@eddiepiano, That is quite the rollercoaster! But I can very much understand it.

Luckily, I can now just quote myself 😋:

Originally Posted by HZPiano
Hello,

Congratulations on reaching your decision, I wish you well with it for those projected next 10+ years!

Let us know how things turn out with your instrument once it is securely inside your home and daily reach.

Cheers and happy anticipation,

HZ

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I just read about GP-310 on one site the following:
Quote
Actually, I would place this model at #1 in this price range if you are mostly wanting the best actual piano playing experience you can get instead of more "bells & whistles". I placed the Yamaha CLP‑745 in the number #1 slot here in this price range because it does offer a very satisfying piano playing experience while having many more fun "bells & whistles" than what the Casio has. However, when it comes to the pure acoustic "grand" piano playing experience, especially with regard to key action authenticity and movement, this Casio GP‑310 far surpasses the Yamaha CLP‑745 in that way.

Interesting. I definitely need to add Casio GP series to my list of contenders for the future. And I need to try to get access to these instruments in order to try them out personally.

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Originally Posted by eddiepiano
I also love the feel of the key surfaces - feels like most acoustic pianos (without ebony) I tried.

On the same site as above, I also read about this:
Quote
As far as the material used to produce the key tops, the white key-tops are made from the latest technology in plastics and are identical to the keytops of the Bechstein European concert grand pianos. Many of the new name brand digital pianos are using synthetic ivory feel white key tops with the purpose of trying to recreate the feel of older grand pianos from the 1960's and earlier years when real ivory was the material used to create the key tops. However, for many years now, real acoustic grand pianos have not had real or synthetic ivory on their keys so the keytop feel of the new Grand Hybrid pianos is identical to what current day acoustic grand pianos feel like. In this way you can transition from a real acoustic grand or upright piano to a Casio/Bechstein Celviano Hybrid GP-310 or GP-510 digital piano with no differences at all in the key "feel" and materials used on the keys. The black keys are a natural satin finish made of phenol so that feel will also be the same as an acoustic grand piano.

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The article Ur reading sounds a bit like a sell job on it. the keytops are okay similar to any higher end digital, wouldn't rave about it. Slippery a bit but U get use to it. If I had a preference of keytops. Neotex synthetic ivory on the Kawai is a better feel, which is usually on higher end acoustics as well.

I do feel the build quality of it is quite good, feels sturdy and solid.


Originally Posted by AlexBltn
Originally Posted by eddiepiano
I also love the feel of the key surfaces - feels like most acoustic pianos (without ebony) I tried.

On the same site as above, I also read about this:
Quote
As far as the material used to produce the key tops, the white key-tops are made from the latest technology in plastics and are identical to the keytops of the Bechstein European concert grand pianos. Many of the new name brand digital pianos are using synthetic ivory feel white key tops with the purpose of trying to recreate the feel of older grand pianos from the 1960's and earlier years when real ivory was the material used to create the key tops. However, for many years now, real acoustic grand pianos have not had real or synthetic ivory on their keys so the keytop feel of the new Grand Hybrid pianos is identical to what current day acoustic grand pianos feel like. In this way you can transition from a real acoustic grand or upright piano to a Casio/Bechstein Celviano Hybrid GP-310 or GP-510 digital piano with no differences at all in the key "feel" and materials used on the keys. The black keys are a natural satin finish made of phenol so that feel will also be the same as an acoustic grand piano.

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I know that man is a digital piano dealer. But he sells not only Casio, but also Yamaha and many other brands. And he put Yamaha first, but made an important clarification about Casio. Therefore, I don't see any bias in this case.

As for key coverings, I don't like the current trend of exaggerated Ivory and Ebony textures, which often have nothing to do with keytops in modern acoustic instruments. Therefore, I perfectly understand what he is talking about. I have a Kawai digital piano and I don't like the white keys "Ivory" coating. Nothing to do with the coating on acoustic instruments, which I often practice on.

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I have yet to play on a key finish that has bothered me. Once they got rid of Ivory (which is a good thing), its really about personal preference.

Heck, I played for over ten years on a Roland with that shiny glossy white finish. Did not make me play better or worse than on my old acoustic with Ivory keys.

As long as it does not chip easily. That would be my main concern on the subject.

Ron

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Hey there,

I have something to admit: Yesterday I canceled the order of the GP 510 again. I guess I'm a mess.

I just didn't have the feeling it justifies the expense of 4000 €, because it already now is not what I'm looking for... I realized I don't want another stepping stone on the way to a real hybrid, it would be just a waste of money, as I already think of an grand-hybrid like the N1X or the NV-10.

What I really want:
- A sensitive, good real grand action - it's just a different feeling and connection
- a good MIDI implementation (a reasonable range - e.g. I didn't like the Kawai MP11SE in that matter, because I couldn't reliably get MIDI Values under 25)
- a Midi Interface, so that I can play back Piano VSTs through the Piano speakers without hassle, additional gear or cables, ground loup issues and so on (I really LOVE Pianoteq, the more I play it)
- at least a decent speaker system (It won't sound like the real thing anyway)
- a high music stand (I realized that is really important to me as a tall person)
- good samples in case I don't want or can use VSTs
- a black gloss finish (I also like wood - but most Digital Pianos don't use beautiful real veneer but that ugly plasticy looking)
- simple, long lasting Interface (not sure about touchscreens in that regard....)

What would be nice to have, but not a must:
- A real damper mechanics

It seems to me that only the Yamaha N1X fits the bill perfectly. So I just have to save up and/or look for used N1X in good condition. Until then my Roland FP-30 will do.


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Hello,

@eddiepiano, Yes you're a mess.

No, just kidding. By the looks of it, in the meantime you've become a lot clearer with yourself on what your true wishes and priorities are.

Going through that list, I can relate to many of the points. Personally, the damper mechanics would be among the essentials, directly related to the hybrid action. This, for instance, makes me doubt the Kawai VPC1 which otherwise would be a great improvement for me.

So, when will your true hybrid be on your horizon?

Cheers and happy anticipation,

HZ

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To not like the GP-510 is fine, but to imply it is not a true/real hybrid is not!

I’ll ask again, where does it say -dictionary- that a hybrid is ‘a digital engine paired to an acoustic action? I’ll tell you, nowhere!

The term is open-ended and if Casio can’t use it neither can Yamawai. The fact that Casio is partnered with an acoustic piano maker (Bechstein) is already a hybrid of two worlds; never mind that Bechstein actually makes the keys for the GP lineup.

I have a Casio calculator that is powered by sunlight and battery, so yes, I own a hybrid and so does anyone owning a Prius, and/or a Casiostein GP; this is until the term -hybrid- is redefined to mean something more specific.

Casio is a worthy contender, and if it’s an acoustic action you want, you just wait and see; Casio is working on that as we speak!

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Originally Posted by Pete14
The fact that Casio is partnered with an acoustic piano maker (Bechstein) is already a hybrid of two worlds; never mind that Bechstein actually makes the keys for the GP lineup.

So, the Celviano GP is not a true/real Casio! 😯

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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Originally Posted by Pete14
The fact that Casio is partnered with an acoustic piano maker (Bechstein) is already a hybrid of two worlds; never mind that Bechstein actually makes the keys for the GP lineup.

So, the Celviano GP is not a true/real Casio! 😯

Technically you are correct, sir, which is why I like to call it a Casiostein!

For that matter, is Frankenstein a hybrid? I mean, ‘he’ is made from different parts coming from different people, and if I’m not mistaken, there are also some ‘metallic’ elements being used!

Yes, CG, I know, “Frankenstein is the creator, not the monstrosity,” but I ask, can’t a man make a point without always having to be exact about every single detail? The monster, the creator; tomato, tomater; who cares!


And yes, The Six Million Dollar Man is a hybrid!

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Well, in my opinion, regardless how good or bad it is, it's much more a Casio than a Bechstein...

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Originally Posted by HZPiano
So, when will your true hybrid be on your horizon?
I dpn't know, when I save up and have the courage to decide to spent such a huge amount of money on a luxury item like this as an bginner amateur. wink

@Pete14: I know what you mean - of course there is no textbook definition of the term hybrid piano. Yamaha and Kawai are using this term for digital pianos with a digital action and a spruce soundboard (CA99) but also for Digital Pianos with real acoustic actions and no soudnboard (NV-10, N1X and so on) and sometimes for acoustic Pianos with a silent system (and Transducers) too! Casio uses this term for their collaboration with Bechstein, and they (imo!) imply with it, that they use a "real" grand piano action like the N1X/NV-10, but they don't. Roland uses the "Hybrid" term for their high-end action in the LX 706/708 - because it is a hybrid of wood and plastic.

But I have the impression that there is a good consensus about the terminology, at least in this forum and the other I attend (the moddart forum and the german clavio forum).

Digital piano: a piano with a non-acoustic action, regardless of the fact if the keys are of wood or if there is a soundboard or not (Yamaha CLP, Kawai CA, Casio GP, Roland LX and so...)
Hybrid piano: a piano with a (very slightly modified = not actual hammers with felt) real acoustic upright or grand action and digital sound production (so no strings), regardless of the piano has a soundboard (NV-5) or not (NV-10, NU1X, N1X)
Silent Piano: a piano with a real acoustic action and acoustic sound production + a silent system that allows to silent the piano and play through headphones or even with the transducer "speaker"

In that sense, the Casio is not a "real" hybrid but a (very good) digital piano. But aside from that: I want a digital piano with a real acoustic action. smile

Last edited by eddiepiano; 07/26/21 08:15 AM.

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Hello,

Originally Posted by eddiepiano
Digital piano: a piano with a non-acoustic action, regardless of the fact if the keys are of wood or if there is a soundboard or not (Yamaha CLP, Kawai CA, Casio GP, Roland LX and so...)

Hybrid piano: a piano with a (very slightly modified = not actual hammers with felt) real acoustic upright or grand action and digital sound production (so no strings), regardless of the piano has a soundboard (NV-5) or not (NV-10, NU1X, N1X)

Silent Piano: a piano with a real acoustic action and acoustic sound production + a silent system that allows to silent the piano and play through headphones or even with the transducer "speaker"

Good, crisp and clear-cut definitions. Let us all stick with those.

Cheers and happy clarity,

HZ

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Originally Posted by eddiepiano
I want a digital piano with a real acoustic action. smile

Well, in that case, might I suggest waiting for the Casiostein CG-1SEX?

Not that I’m into that, but if you’re pivot-length obsessed it is rumored that the CG (Concert Grand) will have the longest pivot in town; and I’m talking Steinway D length here.

But more importantly, the CG-1SEX will boast the very first AI -modeled- engine that will grow, learn, and eventually make decisions on its own (without need for firmware updates). It will detect bugs on its own and crush them on the fly (no pun intended), it will go out of tune according to your environment, usage, and other factors, but you will not need to call a tuner because the engine will ‘tune’ itself upon request, “tune piano to A440.”

Amongst the goodies there will also be a solid spruce soundboard with one micro transducer per key (88) behaving like real strings transmitting vibrations to the soundboard and such……..and all of this for less than the price of an N1X!

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It's alright U probably made the right choice. I was also in a similar dilemma. After owning a gp400 for 2 years. I came real close to buying a used n1x. It was a good price. Test played it. Said yes, the no, then yes. But the price and the extra return on investment I just couldn't logically make sense of it. In the end I said no and lost out. Still regrets to this day but that's okay. There is always a future digital piano advancements and opportunity to buy it next time.

Buying a piano, digital or not is quite emotional purchase not a logical one. Especially when Ur buying top range stuff. What you buy, you'd best be happy with it cause U gotta live with it for quite a long while or lose out from resale.


Originally Posted by eddiepiano
Hey there,

I have something to admit: Yesterday I canceled the order of the GP 510 again. I guess I'm a mess.

I just didn't have the feeling it justifies the expense of 4000 €, because it already now is not what I'm looking for... I realized I don't want another stepping stone on the way to a real hybrid, it would be just a waste of money, as I already think of an grand-hybrid like the N1X or the NV-10.

What I really want:
- A sensitive, good real grand action - it's just a different feeling and connection
- a good MIDI implementation (a reasonable range - e.g. I didn't like the Kawai MP11SE in that matter, because I couldn't reliably get MIDI Values under 25)
- a Midi Interface, so that I can play back Piano VSTs through the Piano speakers without hassle, additional gear or cables, ground loup issues and so on (I really LOVE Pianoteq, the more I play it)
- at least a decent speaker system (It won't sound like the real thing anyway)
- a high music stand (I realized that is really important to me as a tall person)
- good samples in case I don't want or can use VSTs
- a black gloss finish (I also like wood - but most Digital Pianos don't use beautiful real veneer but that ugly plasticy looking)
- simple, long lasting Interface (not sure about touchscreens in that regard....)

What would be nice to have, but not a must:
- A real damper mechanics

It seems to me that only the Yamaha N1X fits the bill perfectly. So I just have to save up and/or look for used N1X in good condition. Until then my Roland FP-30 will do.

Last edited by Pianowill; 07/26/21 09:14 AM.
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Casio is a worthy contender, and if it’s an acoustic action you want, you just wait and see; Casio is working on that as we speak!
I guess I can speak for the vast majority here: we want more information cool

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Pete14, I don't know if you are just having fun and make up things, but if these facts are true (real concert grand action, soundboard with 88 microtransducers, an "aging" AI) are true... That sounds amazing.

@Pianowill: Thanks for your comment. Yes, that's true. In a few years the N1X will be considered outdated and there might be very good deals.

Last edited by eddiepiano; 07/26/21 09:56 AM.

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