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Hi all again.

HZ piano, thanks for the clarification. In my ignorance, I thought that the digital actions are all folded to make them more compact, and the hybrid ones are those who, for obvious reasons, take more space. My head also spins at all the various names given to the digital actions (Roland is particularly wicked there), so I don't even try to remember their respective names anymore. Still, in my ignorance I corrected the saleslady yesterday, who thought that HD704 and LX705 had "almost" the same action, whilst I seemed to remember they do, in fact, have the same action. That action was good, by the way, and the one in the LX706/708 was better. A shame they should disappoint me in the design and sound...

Kawai James, thanks for the nice words!

Back to the NV5. I don't know what was the issue, either. But the issue was there, at least for me (remember: not accustomed to playing acoustic pianos!). Those who have been at Bonners in Reigate will know the setting: one small room, with the four hybrids there, one for each wall. I was the only one in the room and I could switch at ease between the pianos. There is no doubt in my mind that that NV5 was more difficult to play, noticeably more difficult than the NU1X, and was blown out of the water by both the N1X (which was as good as I remembered) and the NV10 (which was, so to speak, the superstar).

I think that what is at play here is that that example does have a regulation on the hard side (which could, therefore, happen to any piano I order), something the saleslady also noticed. However, it must not be so bad that it pushes off a lot of clients, then in that case Bonners would have given a closer look at things.
It may well be that, being accustomed to a digital piano that wants to imitate a grand piano, and therefore rather light to play, I am more sensitive than others to an upright piano action; whereby the NU1X still passed muster, but the NV5 didn't.

That was, frankly, the bad news of the day, as I drove there willing to fall in love and eager to start my NV5-planning for the post-covid phase (Christmas or beginning of 2022).

It did not happen. Why? Let me answer with a chap they made us study in years past:

nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior ("I know not, but I feel it happening, and it tortures me").

It is what it is and I will not start to rationalise away the bad (for me) playability that I did experience. I will, also, not drive another 2 to 3 hours in the hope I find the hybrid room free (which, on a Saturday morning, was a royal pain; I had to go back after lunch as a woman had monopolised the room for *hours*) and, this time, I can live better with the £5,700 diva. Either a better playable NV5 comes my way from some London Kawai shop post-pandemic, or that's it for me. The CA99 played beautifully and I could see myself playing both the CLP 785 and the GP-510 (both, in my book, more elegant than the CA99) for the rest of my life. I doubt that I would ever reach the limit of each of these pianos.

Still: Money and space no object, it would be the NV10 all right. That was the best experience I had.

Last edited by Omobono; 08/01/21 10:28 AM.

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Originally Posted by Omobono
Still: Money and space no object, it would be the NV10 all right. That was the best experience I had.

Whatever floats your boat. I sold my NV10 in favor to the NU1X and later to the NV5 which is my long term Piano now. wink


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Originally Posted by Omobono
There is no doubt in my mind that that NV5 was more difficult to play ...

I initially was under the impression that you found it heavier, but indeed you did not say that. Just more difficult. That might well be because on an upright you need to let the key return more before the next note can be played than on a grand action or a DP action. In recall that I needed to adjust to this as well when I switched from a GFCII action to my upright action, but that went relatively quick.

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The CA79 and the CA99 share exactly the same action (and piano engine). But they have a totally different speaker system (the CA99 has a soundboard on the back). So, this is one of these cases where a different sound diffusion system could make you think the action is physically different...

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Hi Pianogabe,
to be clear, more difficult because harder, as in: I had (or I thought I had) to put more energy in the keys to depress them. That, to me, was the difficulty. I did not experience any issue of notes not playing because I did not let them return in place. I also did not experience the same issue with the NU1X (I found it, again, harder to play than the non-hybrid digital, but not to the point of not liking it; I just liked the CLP 785 more).


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Originally Posted by Omobono
I could see myself playing both the CLP 785 and the GP-510 (both, in my book, more elegant than the CA99) for the rest of my life.

By "more elegant", are you presumably referring to the appearance of the instruments?

Kind regards,
James
x


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Hi KJ,

yes, I refer to the the appearance. In particular I refer to the fact, that I had already remarked upon, that part of the upper part of the CA99 is covered with fabric. In my eyes, the GP-510 and the CLP 785, with their all-polished ebony surface, offer the more elegant solution.

Kind regards
Omobono


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Maybe the title of this thread should be: "What is the most beautiful DP as a piece of furniture for my living room?". grin

P.S.: forgive me, I could not resist...

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Hello,

Originally Posted by Omobono
... part of the upper part of the CA99 is covered with fabric.

Aesthetically, this disturbed me a bit as well. On the other hand it is an essential part of the sound production which is, of course, top priority. And in that light I regard myself as nitpicking for giving any thoughts to the fabric panel whatsoever.

And as such, @magicpiano offers a nice correction (and I do not mean to the thread title) 😌.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

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Great post Omo. Similar thoughts to myself. I will be going back for a second audition of all those pianos. Did you have a favourite amongst the Ca99, clp785 or Casio gp510? I thought the Casio sound was less convincing than the others but had the nicest action. Ca99 best sound but felt a bit toylike. Clp785 probably somewhere in the middle. Lastly, found the Nu1x the most authentic experience but felt slightly clunky in the action compared to the others. This could be just the mechanics of a hybrid system and could be a good thing I guess after time. Would you rate the Nu1x ' better' than those mentioned above?

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Hi Cutec,

It's difficult to say because they were very close.
In my estimation the CA99 had the best action (by a little) but the worst user interface (by far) and I did not like the fabric on the top of the piano. I don't play the fabric, of course. On the other hand, I am not blind, either, and I would notice the thing every single time I enter the room, or even whilst playing. The beauty of polished ebony is that it has that beautiful polished ebony shine;). If I want a piano in polished ebony and then get that stuff constantly looking at me wink , I wonder... But hey, for others it will be perfectly irrelevant.

The Yamaha and the GP510 had both excellent actions, in my opinion only a tiny bit less pleasant than the Kawai, but were both (the pianos, not the actions) more aesthetically pleasing. However, the Casio was weak in the sound volume (see first post) and has that horrible plaque. The opening at the top is a nice little trick but again, if the Kawai sounds more powerful without the need for it... I found the sound quality of these three more or less equivalent at least in the noisy environment in which I tested, whilst I found the Roland sounds inferior to all of them, and it was not even close.

Of these three, my pick at the moment would be the Yamaha CLP785. It has nothing that I don't like apart from the price, and is at or very near the top in every department. The user interface is very elegant and, if you ask me, Kawai should look at it very carefully for their next DP generation.

I would not pick the NU1X and, to me, he is a clear fourth compared to the other three. This is because of the considerations about the upright action that I have written here in several posts. I do not doubt that the NU1X (and the NV5s come to that) would be perfectly satisfying for people not minding the different action (which I found slightly harder in the NU1X, and deal-breaking hard in the NV5s), but they are not for me. Also, the absence of the "Binaural" Boesendorfer in the NU!X should not, in my opinion, be a deal breaker because I did not find anything special or revolutionary in the Binaural of the CLP 785.


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Thanks Omo. Will do a second audition and post my findings. The only downside of the clp785 seems it's price. £4k for a non hybrid action seems expensive when you could buy a Kawai acoustic k200 for roughly the same money. Or indeed a hybrid action for not much more.

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@Cutec: I get your point. But can you really buy a new upright for 4000 GBP?
Or a hybrid for that amount?

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Yep Mac: K200 PE is 3799 GBP or 4100 euros (incl shipping and VAT) - advertised pricing from one major online european seller. The ATX3 version goes for 2000 euros more.

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Yes they are virtually the same price. If only I could accommodate the lack of headphones in the acoustic, surely much better value for the K200 which could in theory last 50 years with the right aftercare.

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