2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
107 members (AaronSF, Boboulus, bobrunyan, anotherscott, Alex Hutor, adamcz, andrea monza, Abdol, 18 invisible), 1,097 guests, and 496 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
#3142329 08/01/21 10:21 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 30,826
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 30,826
How would you rank the following sets of etudes in terms of greatest or your favorites? If you can give a reason then your answer becomes more interesting. Of course, you don't have to rank all the sets in my list or you can put them in groups if ranking individual sets seems impossible or even silly. Or if you want to add a set to the list, that's fine.

I don't have my own ranking, except for putting both sets of the Chopin Etudes first(surprise, surprise).

Chopin Op. 10
Chopin Op. 25
Debussy Etudes
Liszt Paganini Etudes
Liszt Transcendental Etudes
Liszt Etudes de Concert
Scriabin Op.8
Rachmaninov Etudes Tableaux
Ligeti Etudes
Brahms Paganini Variations
Schumann Symphonic Etudes
Alkan Etudes in Minor Keys
Godowsky Etudes after Chopin

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 30,826
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 30,826
Please add Scriabin Etudes Op. 42 to the list.

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 834
B
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 834
I love etudes.
My favorites are Chopin Op. 10 & Op. 25 and Scriabin Op. 8 & Op. 42. They are the most musically interesting to me and I love some of their melodies.
My favorite of them all is Scriabin Op. 42 No. 5, because it's such a fantastic, dramatic, stormy etude with wonderful melodies on top; this etude has it all.

Another suggestion for the list would be Prokofiev Opus 2. No. 1 is also a big favorite here.

Last edited by babama; 08/01/21 10:56 AM.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 834
B
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 834
Adolf von Henselt's Op. 2 and Op. 5 are also interesting sets of etudes, but generally not nearly as inspired and musically satisfying as say Chopin.
Some of them seem extremely difficult to play. Op. 5 No. 7 "Elfenregen" is a really fun etude!

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,853
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,853
Lyapunov's 12 Études d’exécution transcendante transcends all the others........



"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 164
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 164


MacDowell's Op. 46 "Virtuoso" Ètudes.

My favorite set of ètudes. Shouldn't surprise anyone, really.

They're more focused on sonority than on virtuosity, although some of them are indeed virtuoso showpieces.

Last edited by Farazissimo; 08/01/21 09:59 PM.

Pianist-in-training who changes his signature...alot.
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCApZEtefyPogkULpO9BSMmw

I believe certain composers and their pieces in the less-played repertoire ought to be re-examined.
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 74
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 74
I think the Chopin etudes has to go to the top of the list, for their perfect blend of technique and music, and for their historical importance. However I wouldn't necessarily go to a concert with them on the programme, since I've heard them so much by now.

Two other sets I like are the Debussy and the Ligeti.

Debussy:
I played some of these. They are a bit strange, but I found them fascinating at the time. Not very etude-like; even if each etude focuses on a pianistic problem (thirds, fourths, arpeggios and so on) they are more musical explorations of those elements. So they are more music pieces than etudes.

Ligeti:
These are, like Chopin, a perfect blend of technique and music. I think they are great, and some of them are some of my favourite piano pieces. I think they are the most influential piano pieces composed in the last 50 years.

I can enjoy many of the other sets, but I don't think any of them are at the level of Chopin, Debussy and Ligeti as innovative pieces of art.

Last edited by kdjupdal; 08/02/21 05:55 AM.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,426
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,426
Originally Posted by kdjupdal
[...]Chopin, Debussy and Ligeti as innovative pieces of art.

Your enthusiasm for the Ligeti Etudes prompted me to listen to them for the first time. Certainly the technical challenges are phenomenal. To a traditionalist it may take several hearings to find structure and melody in these works as, initially, they seem to focus primarily on rhythmic patterns, rhythmic complexities and acoustic "effects." I would think that familiarity with them would lead to some "understanding" of their musical significance.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 164
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 164
Originally Posted by babama
Adolf von Henselt's Op. 2 and Op. 5 are also interesting sets of etudes, but generally not nearly as inspired and musically satisfying as say Chopin.
Some of them seem extremely difficult to play. Op. 5 No. 7 "Elfenregen" is a really fun etude!

Busoni liked him enough to include his Op. 2 No. 1 in his "Method of Piano Playing" (Klavierübung) book.


Pianist-in-training who changes his signature...alot.
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCApZEtefyPogkULpO9BSMmw

I believe certain composers and their pieces in the less-played repertoire ought to be re-examined.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,211
D
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,211
The concept 'etude' is quite a narrow one: a study for a certain technical or musical purpose. Some of the above mentioned composers do that, like Chopin, Debussy, may be to a lesser degree Brahms, Schumann, Alkan, others tend to just gallop away in different direnctions, beautiful as they may be. Moszkowski adheres in his op.72 to the first category and should be mentioned, like Moscheles, Saint-Saëns does the same in his opp.52 and 111, and should also be mentioned, Glazunov has one little gem set of 3 etudes that do exactly what is required and nicely so, Stravinsky, Bartok, Szymanovsky and Prokofiev did the same, and all should be listed. In the 2nd category seem to fit those by Cécile Chaminade, worth a look, and out of bounds seem to be those of Méreaux, haha, and I won't go into all beautiful études (de concert) by so many like Moszkowski, Pierné, Sibelius, Respighi, Kosenko, Schnabelewobski et al. (Beethoven wrote his études as 32 Variations in c minor WoO 80, and all of Bach for 'klavier' is a study..)


Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 383
C
Full Member
Online Content
Full Member
C
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 383
Oh come on, where would we be without Hanon? grin

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,402
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,402
Originally Posted by cygnusdei
Oh come on, where would we be without Hanon? grin
Or the Brahms 51 exercises. ha Perhaps we should limit the discussion to "music" as opposed to finger exercises. grin


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 383
C
Full Member
Online Content
Full Member
C
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 383
Originally Posted by Carey
Perhaps we should limit the discussion to "music" as opposed to finger exercises. grin
Haha, yes. As much as concert etudes are wonderful, I kind of appreciate the 'purity' of say Czerny Op. 299 in which everything is supposed to come from the fingers, i.e. no pedal whatsoever, even in arpeggios. Incidentally, are there concert/advanced etudes like that, i.e. to be played strictly without pedal?

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,231
S
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,231
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by kdjupdal
[...]Chopin, Debussy and Ligeti as innovative pieces of art.

Your enthusiasm for the Ligeti Etudes prompted me to listen to them for the first time. Certainly the technical challenges are phenomenal. To a traditionalist it may take several hearings to find structure and melody in these works as, initially, they seem to focus primarily on rhythmic patterns, rhythmic complexities and acoustic "effects." I would think that familiarity with them would lead to some "understanding" of their musical significance.

Regards,

I dont think the term melody would apply to those at least not in the traditional sense. But certainly if one extends that definition to any random set of notes .... There is a structure, of course, just not an intuitive one. Nonetheless as good as they may be, they are almost never played, unlike Chopin ....

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 30,826
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 30,826
So many posts but only one or two dealt with the question I raised in the OP. Most posters seemed only interested in listing some IMO relatively minor additional set of etudes they were familiar with. Oh well.

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 164
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 164
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
So many posts but only one or two dealt with the question I raised in the OP. Most posters seemed only interested in listing some IMO relatively minor additional set of etudes they were familiar with. Oh well.
Ah, I missed that you wanted an actual ranking.


MacDowell Ètudes Op. 46 - Reason: While some of these [IMHO underrated AND concert-worthy] ètudes indeed focus on the normal topics such as virtuosity and dexterity (examples: Moto perpetuo, Elfentanz); others are focused either solely on sonority (examples: Improvisation, Traumerei), or have a mixture of virtuosity and sonority (example: Wild Chase).

Liszt Transcendental Ètudes S. 139 - Reason: In addition to a heightened sense of virtuosity (examples: Mazeppa), some of these ètudes foreshadow other great composers. Liszt was really a genius at predicting trends of impressionism, and even atonality (although the latter is not shown in these ètudes). Harmonies du Soir and Chasse-neige predicts Debussy in more ways than one. Feux Follets was a favorite of Busoni.

Chopin Études Op. 10 & Op. 25 - Reason: These are great ètudes for poetic content. Very few of these ètudes are made to show off (the only real examples of showing off are in Op. 10 No. 1 & Op. 25 No. 11). The rest are made as ètudes for the heart (examples: Op. 10 No. 3 & Op. 25 No. 7), not the fingers. Which is kind of ironic, considering ètudes should be for the fingers (although they should be musical!).

Henselt Ètudes Op. 2 - Reason: While they're not of the highest originality, these ètudes can help you learn how to stretch your hands naturally (example: Op. 2 No. 11), without the kind of machinery that broke Schumann's hands! These ètudes certainly have their value (example: Op. 2 No. 6 [which Rachmaninoff liked]), and musically they may be out of place next to Chopin or Liszt, but technically they are there. Busoni liked the Op. 2 No. 1 well enough to include it in his Klavierübung.

Moszkowski Ètudes Op. 72 - Reason: Let's keep the reason short and sweet, because these ètudes are indeed short and sweet. It can act like the bridge between Czerny and Chopin, in poetic content (example: Op. 72 No. 14) and in technical challenges (example: Op. 72 No. 11). Vladimir Horowitz, when he was alive, saw great value in the Moszkowski ètudes and often played No. 6 in F, which has since been hackneyed to death.

Scriabin Ètudes Op. 8 - Reason: Yes, No. 12 is hackneyed to death. But does anyone really look at the other Scriabin ètudes' musical content? (Example: Op. 8 No. 4 in B major) is truly poetic, in a way that only Scriabin could be. They hint at the mystical qualities that Scriabin would discover in himself later. (Example: Op. 8 No. 5 in E major) has some of the big stretches that you found in the Henselt.

Saint-Saëns Ètudes Op. 52 - Reason: Well, for starters, Op. 52 No. 4 "Ètude on Polyrhythms" is a great way to learn polyrhythms, and indeed, it's how I learnt polyrhythms in the first place. Op. 52 No. 6 "Ètude in the form of a Waltz" however, is truly a concert piece. Gyorgy Cziffra used to love playing the "Ètude in the form of a Waltz", and when you hear it, you'll understand why! It's a great encore!

Saint-Saëns Ètudes Op. 135 for the left hand - Reason: Well, they're for the left hand. These ètudes for the left hand are more baroque (neo-baroque?) in nature, but they conquer some of the challenges a pianist who doesn't have such a good left hand NEED to face in order to improve their left hand. (Example: Op. 135 No. 3 "Moto perpetuo")

Alkan Ètude Op. 35 No. 5 "Allegro barbaro" - Reason: The full set of Alkan Op. 35 ètudes may be somewhat musically interesting, but only one ètude in this set of twelve in major keys, really makes you want to "rock and roll" in a way only Alkan could. That's the 5th ètude - "Allegro barbaro". It's an octave study in F Lydian, and it's just as chaotic as Bartòk's piece on the same subject.

Czerny Ètudes Op. 740 - Reason: Yes, they're very abstract and unattractive. But they make for great encore pieces if you take the time to play it musically. (Example: Op. 740 No. 3) It also doesn't purport itself to be music of the highest order, so one could argue in favor of making your own endings to the ètudes! (Raymond Lewenthal certainly did.)

I missed a lot of ètudes that I also wanted to rank, so excuse me.


Pianist-in-training who changes his signature...alot.
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCApZEtefyPogkULpO9BSMmw

I believe certain composers and their pieces in the less-played repertoire ought to be re-examined.

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Sustain/Sostenuto Pedal issues
by Lance Jensen - 09/17/21 04:49 PM
Upgrade to Used Upright or Advanced Digital Piano?
by Connor5522 - 09/17/21 03:44 PM
Bronzing Powder Mixing Turning Yellow Gold into Deep Gold
by Chernobieff Piano - 09/17/21 03:18 PM
Kawai NV5 Or NV10?
by Tenor1 - 09/17/21 02:53 PM
Mic + subwoofer for an acoustic piano?
by WinstonSmith - 09/17/21 02:25 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics209,159
Posts3,133,062
Members102,758
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5