2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Week Deals
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
72 members (accordeur, BravoRomeo, c++, An Old Square, 36251, anotherscott, 21 invisible), 619 guests, and 499 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 27 of 33 1 2 25 26 27 28 29 32 33
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 75
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Tenor1
I just purchased a NV5 and was concerned with the durability of the fabric covering the top. I thought hard coverings like the NV10 would be better. The fabric is also harder to dust and maintain. Guess you just can't please everyone.

First of all, congratulations on this wonderful instrument. I think that the cloth cover and its cleaning are the least of the problems. It is much more important that the instrument is in good order. (Speakers, soundboard, keyboard, pedals, etc.).

Kind regards
MBiG


Analogue: Sauter - Hohner - Solton; Digital: Casio - Yamaha;
(A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush)
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
Kawai America recently uploaded three new videos to their YouTube channel, featuring pianist Dominic Cheli playing the NV10S:







Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 361
T
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 361
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Kawai America recently uploaded three new videos to their YouTube channel, featuring pianist Dominic Cheli playing the NV10S:







Kind regards,
James
x

Thank you so much for sharing these. Not only well played but beautifully shows what that piano can do. It has beautiful overtones on the Schriabin tone poem. That piece has strange intervals creating an almost mystical sound and the piano really got the nuances of it. I wish he selected a harpsichord for one of the Bach pieces. They highlighted his technical ability, which is amazing, over the pianos ability, IMO. That's a gorgeous instrument.


Recorder Player/Singer
Back to playing piano
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 45
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 45
This is just amazing performance-wise and sound-wise! How exactly it was recorded? I believe it was using internal sound recording rather than microphones. Were default settings tweaked in any way?

Pity my NV10s will be "we don't know when, at the end of the year, or next year even, you know, shortages" (my dealer's words).

Last edited by bilb; 09/07/21 03:53 AM.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
Originally Posted by bilb
How exactly it was recorded? I believe it was using internal sound recording rather than microphones. Were default settings tweaked in any way?

I believe this audio was captured from the instrument's Line Outs (i.e. not microphones).

I'm afraid I don't know if any settings were adjusted, however we can see (from the LCD touchpanel) that the instrument is using the "SK-EX Rendering | Concert" sound.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 961
M
mwf Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 961
Does the NV10S use newer samples than NV10? Same ones found in CA99?

Recently bought a ES920, quite happy with it, I'm amazed at the internal speaker quality and internal samples are very rich. A few keys have a slight grating sound and feel/friction, namely the F keys, I'm not surprised at this at all since it's Kawai, I've still never bought a perfect piano from this company and I'm sure it's merely a 'normal' characteristic and i shouldn't complain (also pointless).

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
Originally Posted by mwf
Does the NV10S use newer samples than NV10? Same ones found in CA99?

Yes and yes.

Originally Posted by mwf
Recently bought a ES920, quite happy with it, I'm amazed at the internal speaker quality and internal samples are very rich.

Thank you for the positive feedback, glad to read that you're enjoying the instrument. wink

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 961
M
mwf Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 961
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by mwf
Does the NV10S use newer samples than NV10? Same ones found in CA99?

Yes and yes.

Originally Posted by mwf
Recently bought a ES920, quite happy with it, I'm amazed at the internal speaker quality and internal samples are very rich.

Thank you for the positive feedback, glad to read that you're enjoying the instrument. wink

Cheers,
James
x

Thanks for your reply James.

Does the NV10S have the same samples as ES920 also?

I've been utterly impressed by this ES920 so far.

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,415
E
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,415
Originally Posted by mwf
Does the NV10S have the same samples as ES920 also?

I've been utterly impressed by this ES920 so far.

ES920 uses a sound engine two generations older than NV5S or NV10S.

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,744
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,744
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by mwf
Does the NV10S have the same samples as ES920 also?

I've been utterly impressed by this ES920 so far.

ES920 uses a sound engine two generations older than NV5S or NV10S.

Yes, but to answer the question directly, the NV10S does in fact include the HI-XL sound engine from the ES920, and it has the SK-EX and SK-5 (and Concert EX) samples from the ES-920. So, yes, it does have the same main piano samples as the ES920, for those who like it and want to use it. smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,415
E
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,415
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by mwf
Does the NV10S have the same samples as ES920 also?

I've been utterly impressed by this ES920 so far.

ES920 uses a sound engine two generations older than NV5S or NV10S.

Yes, but to answer the question directly, the NV10S does in fact include the HI-XL sound engine from the ES920, and it has the SK-EX and SK-5 (and Concert EX) samples from the ES-920. So, yes, it does have the same main piano samples as the ES920, for those who like it and want to use it. smile

Perhaps I've misunderstood but the HI-XL sound engine is the Novus's B game isn't it? That's sound mode on the Novus. On the NV Pianist mode is the rendering engine, which is now on its second generation with the NV-S versions.

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,744
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,744
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Perhaps I've misunderstood but the HI-XL sound engine is the Novus's B game isn't it? That's sound mode on the Novus. On the NV Pianist mode is the rendering engine, which is now on its second generation with the NV-S versions.

No, you are correct! But the question asked wasn't whether the Novus used the ES920's sound engine for its A game, only whether the Novus HAS the same samples as the ES920, which it does!


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,415
E
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,415
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Perhaps I've misunderstood but the HI-XL sound engine is the Novus's B game isn't it? That's sound mode on the Novus. On the NV Pianist mode is the rendering engine, which is now on its second generation with the NV-S versions.

No, you are correct! But the question asked wasn't whether the Novus used the ES920's sound engine for its A game, only whether the Novus HAS the same samples as the ES920, which it does!

Yes. Agreed.

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
Hello mwf,

Originally Posted by mwf
Does the NV10S have the same samples as ES920 also?

As others have noted, the NV10S' "Harmonic Imaging XL" piano sounds (as well as a number of others) are the same as those found in the ES920.

However, the NV10S also has the more advanced "SK-EX Rendering" sound engine, which uses an additional set of samples that are currently exclusive to the NV10S/NV5S and CA99/CA79.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 2
J
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 2
Are there any plans to provide the updated sounds and/or firmware to owners of the NV5?

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
Originally Posted by Jack K
Are there any plans to provide the updated sounds and/or firmware to owners of the NV5?

No, none that I’m aware of.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 50
O
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
O
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 50
Hi,

I've compared NV5S and NV10 MIDI/overtones behaviour with YAMAHA N1X :

Sorry to say but Sympathetic resonance doesn't behave like a real piano on NV5S/NV10 :

on a Real piano, when you press half a key without sound, damper is up, and strings are free, to vibrate (sympatheic resonance) when other keys are played.

On Yamaha N1X : it works
On Novus : not work / not realistic.

And YAMAHA N1X have Aftertouch behaviour and midi information for Damper speed that can be used in Pianoteq..... (Pianoteq just add polyphonic after touch to damper duration...)

So NV10 have real damper / and real damper pedal : but midi behaviour of damper or sympathetic resonance when damper is up without completly move the key, doesn't work.

Don't understand this poor midi implementation from Kawai for a Hybrid at 9000 euros (And it work/behave better on CA99 with GF3 than a NV10S/NV5S)

Disapointed.

Will Kawai fix this in new firmware for NV10S/NV5S ?

Regards,

Olivier

Last edited by owfrappier; 09/10/21 04:00 AM.

O.F : Real GRAND Piano Schimmel / Roland HP 603 with Pianoteq 7.4.2 or Gar. CFX lite/ and perhaps soon an N1X or GC1/C1X SH2-TA2....

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
Hello Olivier,

Just to clarify, you are referring to the string resonance "test", whereby a key is pressed and held gently without sounding a note, then other keys are played, resulting in the sound of the played key, as well as the held key in resonating in sympathy, correct?

It's so, yes this test will not work on any Novus instrument, due to the nature and positioning of the optical hammer sensors. I don't believe it's something that can be "fixed" with a firmware update (perhaps Gombessa will contradict me?). Nor do I believe it will be a determining factor in a customer's decision to purchase Yamaha or Kawai.

However you will still hear the string resonance applied when playing under normal circumstances. Just not this test.

By the way, how were you checking the MIDI implementation of the Novus instruments? I believe the above test will probably work if you send the silent noteon data to the tone generator via MIDI. Did you try it, of so what were your results?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,564
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,564
While reading the original post, I guess there are two subjects :

The sympathetic resonance sounds better on Yamaha. This deals with the firmware and especially the resonance modelling (VRM on the N1X). It could be theoretically possible to improve the Kawai firmware.

The note-off which can be done slowly on the N1X. This deals with the keyboard sensor which reports the true position (with an optical sensor and a greyscale flag). This can’t be retrofitted on the Kawai.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 09/10/21 05:41 AM.

http://www.sinerj.org/
http://humeur-synthe.sinerj.org/
Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,009
H
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,009
Hello,

@Kawai James, the procedure @owfrappier describes is a test, yet it is more than that: it is also an advanced pianistic technique in playing (classical) music. So I'd disappointedly say Kawai is rather off the mark in not implementing this behavior, that I personally would expect and test before purchasing a piano as well.

And: If the MIDI output does reflect the silent key strike, is that by sending note-ons with velocity 1? That would be partly good news -- which could be used in favor of the internal engine as well.

And: Do the hybrid actions in the NV5S/NV10S allow (as well as output to MIDI) repeated note-ons with velocity as long as the damper isn't yet released onto its resting point ('string')? Then, followed by a note-off with velocity the moment it actually is released?

I did build up a high regard and keen interest in the CA79/99 and both the Novus S models. But with every revelation like @owfrappier's and the many, many issues that surface through this forum -- together with the stunningly minimal way that Kawai (not you personally) takes any of these seriously (again as it seems through this forum), the chances of me purchasing one of these instruments fast and significantly erodes. Which I seriously see as a pity.

Cheers and happy, rigorous course corrections,

HZ

As a means of contrast: my current low-tier setup with a Roland FP-10 as MIDI action and a PC with VI Labs' Modern U as piano engine, together produce all of these behaviors with simple natural ease.

Page 27 of 33 1 2 25 26 27 28 29 32 33

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Cateen plays I Got Rhythm
by pianoloverus - 12/02/21 04:38 PM
Cateen plays I Got Rhythm
by pianoloverus - 12/02/21 03:44 PM
My tech knows I am OCD
by RobAC - 12/02/21 02:09 PM
A little OT - a Thanksgiving Day piano float
by Rich Galassini - 12/02/21 01:50 PM
Preventing noise transmission
by happyhacker - 12/02/21 01:35 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics210,354
Posts3,150,268
Members103,492
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5