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We paid and released the tuner. Nice elderly man, but he won't be invited back. One surprising thing was that he actually plays piano and thought it sounded "good". He may have tuned by ear for decades, but seems to have lost it now. So, we pulled out a tuning wrench and spent a couple hours tweaking it and now it is much better. Didn't make a recording for you all.

I was surprised to learn that some of you technicians consider tuning each note independently of all others is a reasonable approach. I have never seen another tuner do it. It certainly didn't work here.

There are many approaches to tuning that work perfectly well. Tuning each note separately to an ETD is one such approach. It would certainly appear that the technician you hired did not do a great job. That does not necessarily mean, however, that the method he used was at fault.
Some technicians start at A4, set a temperament, tune aurally and do a great job. Some start at A4, tune aurally and do a lousy job. The same can be said of those tuning electronically. A highly skilled technician may be able to use various approaches and still end up with a great tuning.

We can’t know whether the tuner did it right and you just spoiled the tuning by tweaking it and it is just you that think it is better. Maybe your old tuner was tuning a temperament other than equal and you were accustomed to it.

Without a recording your comments are all speculative.

And it is also arrogant and over the line to talk about tuners who use an ETD.

Tuner says it sounds good I’ll take his word for it.
Client prefers to complain on a public forum as opposed to working with tuner is weird, not certain what is expected of the techs here that try to help people.
DIY fix it yourself over 30 years experience?
I agree, without a recording I’ll go with the tuners opinion.

This can ONLY be done with an ETD. It was pioneered by the late Dr. Al Sanderson who invented the AccuTuner. However, it must be checked and rechecked over and over while tuning. Things rarely stay perfectly put on a once over pass. If one note "slips" it adversely affects at least 6 immediate intervals and then extends to extrapolated intervals from there. If two notes move and go undetected...well you can do the math. This is especially true if one is moving things any more than extremely slightly.

Analog tuners (good ones) are constantly checking and rechecking what they've already done because everything they do relates back to what they've already done. An inexperienced ETD user may make assumptions about his stability (especially if having tuned analog for a long time) and not bother to go back and check. The problem is that the body mechanics of setting tuning pins is slightly different tuning digitally vs analog (don't ask me to explain...its just different), so though it is assumed things stayed put, it ain't necessarily so. Going back and checking involves an entire run through (and technically retuning)...not fun. Good, experienced digital tuners check and recheck both aurally and digitally as they go and do not fall into this trap.

I am a little put out by the overall tactic and attitude displayed here by the OP and I feel an apology is in order. The normal order of events when one is unhappy with work done by a hired individual is to take it up with that person (or firm) and try to resolve it privately before making unsubstantiated claims and insinuations on a public forum such as this.

My .02

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

Ditto:

I think there are some oversensitive reactions coming from some techs on this matter. The OP did not name the tuner concerned, so nobody's reputation has taken a hit. He's asking a question based on his current level of understanding on the matter. If anything, it is the OP who is being shamed in this thread. I don't think it was such an egregious question - regardless of whether he has unfairly judged the tuner or not. The fact is, the tuner was never identified, so this can be treated as a thought-exercise for all it really matters. I also think any customer is entitled to discontinue working with any technician. In my early years, before I learned to tune my own pianos and change strings, I witnessed some sloppy work from some techs whom I didn't feel compelled to invite back. It wasn't incumbent on me to give somebody who did substandard work another chance. I cut my losses and found people with more attention to detail.

+1

Some comments by OP:


A tuner that knows what he is talking about?


Really?


Paid and released? Nice elderly man?


We?


Some of you technicians?

OP said he left it six months to acclimatise. He did not say how long before the start of that process had it been previously tuned. So it was at least six months and had involved movers and transport. My assumption is that the piano may have required more than a single visit by a tuner, young or old, regardless of aural or ETD tuning. When the tuner was still present it appears that the op did not discuss the end result before 'letting the tuner go'. Perhaps the OP thought that the RPT was using a $5 iphone tuner app. Apart from hardware ETD the OP may not be aware that there are software ETDs that cost $1000.
I tune my piano using PianoMeter from A0 to C8 one note at a time after which I tune the choirs aurally Doing this regularly I seldom need to do an 88 note second pass. I just play tunes in every key which highlights which notes I need to adjust.
Ian
Reached my 3000 posts

Greetings,
I regularly tune from A0 to C8 and my tuning has been accepted for recording and performance by a number of internationally known names, which I will not drop here. Names that include singers and instrumentalists that have reputations as being overly fussy.

The ETD is nothing more than a tool, and the results depend on how it is used. The ear is the same, though it cannot be used to cumulatively refine a tuning like an ETD and the ear cannot make the sub-cent corrections to hitA-440 dead on the nose with clear and consistent triple octaves on a single pass tuning when sections of the piano are 3-4 cents off pitch. I have tried, and even though properly trained, etc. I cannot achieve the same accuracy as a computer that measures and provides the compensation where needed.

I have said it before, I was taught by a teacher who was arguably regarded as one of the top technicians and teachers on the planet, and I tuned aurally in recording venues for 16 years before the programmable SAT came out. I got it to make arthritis less intrusive,and it soon made me a better tuner. If the OP had a problem with the tuning, we cannot look to how the RPT did it, simply on the basis of "most groups of notes were not harmonious". That is not a sufficiently specific description.
Regards,

I had one client stop hiring after several visits. She claims my tuning was faulty because it would sound twangy after a few weeks. My initial visit was a major pitch raise, and the tuning pins in the tenor section are too close together that the strings bend around them

What a bold statement. How many credits does he have as a technician/tuner on allmusic.com ?

Here is a bold statement I might say:

As an application developer, I can say that, the equal temperament set surpasses the equal temperament set by best aural tuners.

I don't know anything about allmusic.com. However, I would challenge you to find any accomplished technician that knew Bill Garlick who would criticize his tuning or his teaching.
Regards,

There must be at least a couple of recordings with this exceptional tuner somewhere. I'd rather judge for myself than relying on hearsay, but I couldn't find a single listing on either allmusic.com or discogs.com, so maybe you can point me in the right direction.

Is it necessary to question every statement and need proof? It shouldn’t be unless we all need to be ready with proof for anything we write.

I don’t think we want to go there on this forum.

Did you try Google? It says Mr Garlick was held in the highest regard, just as Ed Foote wrote.

Head of Steinway’s tech dept for 17 years

People, I haven't questioned anything. I have asked a question - and I believe it's legitimate to ask for a recording of a technician that is not only held in high regard, but called one of the greatest on the planet. I am actually really curious to hear his work, but even though I know that he was head of Steinway's technical department in NY, I have yet to stumble upon a recording to listen to.I referenced allmusic and discogs, because they actually mention technicians/tuner for recordings, which is why I looked on these sites.

Not every question is sinister, insinuating, degrading or a sign of disapproval.

Sometimes it's actually a question with real curiosity as its origin.