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It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
Please have a quick listen, I would really appreciate your comments and feedback. There is probably endless scope for further (small?) improvements on this, but I hope you enjoy it !
I should have some other smaller pieces polished and ready to share soon, as I've been very focussed on just this one for a while now...
Excellent! I have no specific suggestions other than perhaps to listen to recordings of the piece by great pianists if you have not already done so! This may give you even further insight into the music.
Excellent! I have no specific suggestions other than perhaps to listen to recordings of the piece by great pianists if you have not already done so! This may give you even further insight into the music.
That's great to hear. Thank-you!
My favourite recording of this is probably Seong-jin Cho's, except for the doppio, which I think he plays a little too fast for my taste. I also rather like Rubinstein's more straightforward performance. So my aim is probably for somewhere between the two. May as well aim high!!
Ok. Part to 1:43 Melody: generally you do it well, so progress and dynamics.
Rhythm and melody: Chopin nocturnes are about playing rubato. You play it like a march. So two opposite sides. It needs to flow, but you play it even with metronome ticks. There is no breathing in your music. Listen to your recording and try to breath with it, you will get what I mean. You do not need big exaggerations, as this may sound comic when overdosed, but just let it flow.
Left hand: there is no rhythm. It's lost. Listener needs to feel pace and know where is 1 in the bar, even if it's delicate and pianissimo, rubato and so on. In your case it's lost, you just play it like you would be afraid of making it sound like accent, or base note. These are just some octaves played with your fear of not playing them too loud thus they sound thin and unconfident, like saying "I am sorry to be here but I have to". Whenever you get to play them in piano it's always this. You just feel very unsecure there.
Pedal in the transmission to the chord part with dobule note - too much of pedal, make each of the notes clear 1:50-1:54, instead we hear big dissonances.
Chord part- generally ok, but again - lots of unevenness within arpeggios.
Octaves - you are playing it with complete locked (stiff) hand. Find a teacher who will unlock you or stop playing octaves, because you will be severely injured faster than you think. There are a lot of false notes, which are not omissions (as that I would skip), but they are because from that point this piece is technically far to hard for you. You do not control your hand and action. Chords at the ends of octave passages are played just to anyhow push the keys down. Nothing good here. You can't finish those final downgoing passages because your hands are to tired, and so you cant hit the finishing chords in time and you do it with big effort. Trill before ending octave passages is played by both hands like two separates things, it should be even.
3:56 onwards Left hand - the same issue as in part one - no support in left hand octaves, while this is foundation of this piece. Rhythm is lost. Right hand you even can't hit correct notes many times, melody is thus completely collapsed. Instrument has control over you, not you over it (e.g. 5:04-5:06). And you play it slower than first time. right hand chord parts should be quieter, you have 4 voices in that part. And you play as we call it "over the keyboard", very delicate - but this is not delicate because you wanted it to be, but because it can't be different due to your playing technique - I can't hear your fingers deep in keyboard, it all sound like you are only pet the keyboard and not play. Last minute is better, at least you hit correct notes and try to show melody, but it's really too hard for you today.
Do you still think your technique and musical understanding / knowledge is good enough to play this piece?
Step down two levels and start playing easy pieces good, you and your listeners will have much more enjoyment. There is nothing worse than playing difficult pieces badly. Ability to play them will come in time.
Ok. Part to 1:43 Melody: generally you do it well, so progress and dynamics.
Rhythm and melody: Chopin nocturnes are about playing rubato. You play it like a march. So two opposite sides. It needs to flow, but you play it even with metronome ticks. There is no breathing in your music. Listen to your recording and try to breath with it, you will get what I mean. You do not need big exaggerations, as this may sound comic when overdosed, but just let it flow.
Left hand: there is no rhythm. It's lost. Listener needs to feel pace and know where is 1 in the bar, even if it's delicate and pianissimo, rubato and so on. In your case it's lost, you just play it like you would be afraid of making it sound like accent, or base note. These are just some octaves played with your fear of not playing them too loud thus they sound thin and unconfident, like saying "I am sorry to be here but I have to". Whenever you get to play them in piano it's always this. You just feel very unsecure there.
Pedal in the transmission to the chord part with dobule note - too much of pedal, make each of the notes clear 1:50-1:54, instead we hear big dissonances.
Chord part- generally ok, but again - lots of unevenness within arpeggios.
Octaves - you are playing it with complete locked (stiff) hand. Find a teacher who will unlock you or stop playing octaves, because you will be severely injured faster than you think. There are a lot of false notes, which are not omissions (as that I would skip), but they are because from that point this piece is technically far to hard for you. You do not control your hand and action. Chords at the ends of octave passages are played just to anyhow push the keys down. Nothing good here. You can't finish those final downgoing passages because your hands are to tired, and so you cant hit the finishing chords in time and you do it with big effort. Trill before ending octave passages is played by both hands like two separates things, it should be even.
3:56 onwards Left hand - the same issue as in part one - no support in left hand octaves, while this is foundation of this piece. Rhythm is lost. Right hand you even can't hit correct notes many times, melody is thus completely collapsed. Instrument has control over you, not you over it (e.g. 5:04-5:06). And you play it slower than first time. right hand chord parts should be quieter, you have 4 voices in that part. And you play as we call it "over the keyboard", very delicate - but this is not delicate because you wanted it to be, but because it can't be different due to your playing technique - I can't hear your fingers deep in keyboard, it all sound like you are only pet the keyboard and not play. Last minute is better, at least you hit correct notes and try to show melody, but it's really too hard for you today.
Do you still think your technique and musical understanding / knowledge is good enough to play this piece?
Step down two levels and start playing easy pieces good, you and your listeners will have much more enjoyment. There is nothing worse than playing difficult pieces badly. Ability to play them will come in time.
Not only do I disagree with most/many of the suggestions, but the last sentence is extremely obnoxious and totally uncalled for.
Not only do I disagree with most/many of the suggestions, but the last sentence is extremely obnoxious and totally uncalled for.
May I know with which comments you do disagree?
Regarding my last sentence. Yes' it's called for. Youtube is full or poor recordings of people playing virtuoso pieces on P45 all the way down very bad, that we have to do something with it. You know people are playing two years and they record finale of Moonlight Sonata, Rachmaninov preludes, Chopin Polonaises etc. I am just enough of such recordings. Different thing (here) is when one is posting to ask where to improve, that's good of course, but while it's perfect and valuable in this context, I would not put this kind of recording on my youtube channel to the whole world.
OP asked for suggestions and what to do better, therefore I delivered it to him.
Ok. Part to 1:43 Melody: generally you do it well, so progress and dynamics.
Rhythm and melody: Chopin nocturnes are about playing rubato. You play it like a march. So two opposite sides. It needs to flow, but you play it even with metronome ticks. There is no breathing in your music. Listen to your recording and try to breath with it, you will get what I mean. You do not need big exaggerations, as this may sound comic when overdosed, but just let it flow.
Left hand: there is no rhythm. It's lost. Listener needs to feel pace and know where is 1 in the bar, even if it's delicate and pianissimo, rubato and so on. In your case it's lost, you just play it like you would be afraid of making it sound like accent, or base note. These are just some octaves played with your fear of not playing them too loud thus they sound thin and unconfident, like saying "I am sorry to be here but I have to". Whenever you get to play them in piano it's always this. You just feel very unsecure there.
Pedal in the transmission to the chord part with dobule note - too much of pedal, make each of the notes clear 1:50-1:54, instead we hear big dissonances.
Chord part- generally ok, but again - lots of unevenness within arpeggios.
Octaves - you are playing it with complete locked (stiff) hand. Find a teacher who will unlock you or stop playing octaves, because you will be severely injured faster than you think. There are a lot of false notes, which are not omissions (as that I would skip), but they are because from that point this piece is technically far to hard for you. You do not control your hand and action. Chords at the ends of octave passages are played just to anyhow push the keys down. Nothing good here. You can't finish those final downgoing passages because your hands are to tired, and so you cant hit the finishing chords in time and you do it with big effort. Trill before ending octave passages is played by both hands like two separates things, it should be even.
3:56 onwards Left hand - the same issue as in part one - no support in left hand octaves, while this is foundation of this piece. Rhythm is lost. Right hand you even can't hit correct notes many times, melody is thus completely collapsed. Instrument has control over you, not you over it (e.g. 5:04-5:06). And you play it slower than first time. right hand chord parts should be quieter, you have 4 voices in that part. And you play as we call it "over the keyboard", very delicate - but this is not delicate because you wanted it to be, but because it can't be different due to your playing technique - I can't hear your fingers deep in keyboard, it all sound like you are only pet the keyboard and not play. Last minute is better, at least you hit correct notes and try to show melody, but it's really too hard for you today.
Do you still think your technique and musical understanding / knowledge is good enough to play this piece?
Step down two levels and start playing easy pieces good, you and your listeners will have much more enjoyment. There is nothing worse than playing difficult pieces badly. Ability to play them will come in time.
Not only do I disagree with most/many of the suggestions, but the last sentence is extremely obnoxious and totally uncalled for.
Thanks pianoloverUS. This was a spill-over from a spat on another thread, and I was probably a bit too rude in my response to maucycy there, so I can take it on the chin!
I was glad at least that they gave some sort of reasoning for their views this time...After all I do see plenty of room for improvement myself, and even ornery feedback may contain some kernels of truth that may be useful.
First, Chris, I compliment you on the performance.
About pedaling, I agree with maucycy about 1:50 to 1:54. Assuming your sheet music is the same as shown with the Rubenstien version below (similarly at 1:50), it shows (and Rubenstien plays) no pedal at all.
Similarly, I think one issue with the octaves (starting around 3:00 in both videos) is that all the pedaling contributes to this section sounding somewhat muddy. (While there appears to be some pedaling in Rubenstein's performance, he is more judicious with it, and again it is not indicated in the score.) Also, even within a crescendo, I'd like to hear more accent to the first beat of each triplet, because that definition is getting lost.
I don't know whether you're using the keyboard's internal sound or a VST, but I'm not a fan of the sound. Particularly, some of the right hand stuff sounds a little percussive/plunky (i.e. sounding overly percussive and quickly dropping off) esp. when played at a moderate-to-soft volume, so ultimately I think the sound may provide some obstacle to acheiving as much expressivity/fluidity there as you might be aiming for.
Also, some of the quietest notes are almost disappearing, and rather than being any kind of technique issue, this could also be a velocity mapping issue. You might be able to adjust this so that the result of your softest strikes aren't quite so quiet. This is an issue I've seen with some digitals, where the dynamic response actually seems a bit exaggerated compared to that of a real piano.
Overall, though, I completely disagree with maucycy that you are over-reaching.
Not only do I disagree with most/many of the suggestions, but the last sentence is extremely obnoxious and totally uncalled for.
May I know with which comments you do disagree?
Regarding my last sentence. Yes' it's called for. Youtube is full or poor recordings of people playing virtuoso pieces on P45 all the way down very bad, that we have to do something with it. You know people are playing two years and they record finale of Moonlight Sonata, Rachmaninov preludes, Chopin Polonaises etc. I am just enough of such recordings. Different thing (here) is when one is posting to ask where to improve, that's good of course, but while it's perfect and valuable in this context, I would not put this kind of recording on my youtube channel to the whole world.
OP asked for suggestions and what to do better, therefore I delivered it to him.
It's the tone of your criticisms and number of things you criticize that I find totally inappropriate. This recording is far better than most of those with two years experience who attempt the pieces you mentioned. There is no need to "do something about" the recordings you find so terrible that you've had enough of.
Not only do I disagree with most/many of the suggestions, but the last sentence is extremely obnoxious and totally uncalled for.
May I know with which comments you do disagree?
Regarding my last sentence. Yes' it's called for. Youtube is full or poor recordings of people playing virtuoso pieces on P45 all the way down very bad, that we have to do something with it. You know people are playing two years and they record finale of Moonlight Sonata, Rachmaninov preludes, Chopin Polonaises etc. I am just enough of such recordings. Different thing (here) is when one is posting to ask where to improve, that's good of course, but while it's perfect and valuable in this context, I would not put this kind of recording on my youtube channel to the whole world.
OP asked for suggestions and what to do better, therefore I delivered it to him.
It's the tone of your criticisms and number of things you criticize that I find totally inappropriate. This recording is far better than most of those with two years experience who attempt the pieces you mentioned. There is no need to "do something about" the recordings you find so terrible that you've had enough of.
Well, I can't help them if the OP thinks he plays it well and you think it's done good. We can all clap hands and say that bad performance is bad but we're here to play the piano well. His false self esteem in regards to his abilities is now lifted by both of you and you make the situation for him even worse.
First part fail on musical side, second on technical, whats wrong to point that out?
If for you it's OK o it be, I do not have tolerance for myself playing pieces which I can't play well. In the second part there a lot of notes missing and after octaves his hands are tired. And you still think its on his level.
No, it's not. But you and the arrogant OP can live in yours fantasies if you like.
overall it is a fair version. It is at your level but there are a number of little things to improve to make it sound really good. Now the fact that you are not recording on an acoustic introduces some interferences and your digital is not a high end one.
In the beginning, the left hand could be more present, but it is difficult to evaluate if that is due to the digital or to your touch. In general the bass line on some digital is not well defined. And when you do increase the volume, with the pedal on it creates a blur. So I think there is so much that you can do with your current equipment.
The beginning up to 1:50 is melodically really good. There is a little of metronomic stiffness but that is not an issue. What you could do is add more nuances and articulation but I guess there is so much that you can do with your digital. For example at 0:58 and 1:03 after the bass chord you start back with the RH a tiny too soon and a bit strong and at 1:10 you could take a tiny little more to make the RH sing. Those nuance is what makes the line stand out.
At 1:50, most pianists keep the pedal on, but likely your RH is too strong there or your Digital is adding too much blur, so anyway you need to clear up a bit. Similarly on the octaves, you need to make them sound more clearly.
The part after 4:00 is more complicated. There are some false notes, and it is really too muddy at times. You would really be better with less pedal in general or half pedal if you can do that, otherwise you need to clear more often.
For the octaves, when you want to play light ones, you should use your wrist. You can play with the forearm and a locked wrist when you need to play power strong ones. And on the fast ones, a combination of wrist and arm is what is usual.
That said, I would recommend you get yourself a better piano.
overall it is a fair version. It is at your level but there are a number of little things to improve to make it sound really good. Now the fact that you are not recording on an acoustic introduces some interferences and your digital is not a high end one.
In the beginning, the left hand could be more present, but it is difficult to evaluate if that is due to the digital or to your touch. In general the bass line on some digital is not well defined. And when you do increase the volume, with the pedal on it creates a blur. So I think there is so much that you can do with your current equipment.
The beginning up to 1:50 is melodically really good. There is a little of metronomic stiffness but that is not an issue. What you could do is add more nuances and articulation but I guess there is so much that you can do with your digital. For example at 0:58 and 1:03 after the bass chord you start back with the RH a tiny too soon and a bit strong and at 1:10 you could take a tiny little more to make the RH sing. Those nuance is what makes the line stand out.
At 1:50, most pianists keep the pedal on, but likely your RH is too strong there or your Digital is adding too much blur, so anyway you need to clear up a bit. Similarly on the octaves, you need to make them sound more clearly.
The part after 4:00 is more complicated. There are some false notes, and it is really too muddy at times. You would really be better with less pedal in general or half pedal if you can do that, otherwise you need to clear more often.
For the octaves, when you want to play light ones, you should use your wrist. You can play with the forearm and a locked wrist when you need to play power strong ones. And on the fast ones, a combination of wrist and arm is what is usual.
That said, I would recommend you get yourself a better piano.
Good job and take care.
This post shows how one can criticize without being hypercritical and obnoxious.
Chris I am convinced your current piano is really holding you back… go try out a few acoustics with your current repertoire. I think it will be a real eye-opener on how much more nuanced you can be,
I hope you’ll post this again on a better instrument.
Keep up the good work, don’t get discouraged by any overly blunt/harsh critiques. There’s no competition or conservatory jury here. We all do this for personal enjoyment and growth.
One thing that has helped me a lot is just to give your RH a break for a while. Let it go on vacation, practice just LH for a few days or a week. You’ll notice rapid improvement.
