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Dito ......
but that's the dilemma, or should I say "curse and blessing" (German expression) of every forum, not just the one here.

Last edited by MBiG; 09/19/21 11:39 AM.

Analogue: Sauter - Hohner - Solton; Digital: Casio - Yamaha;
(A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush)
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Funny experience of my own about Novus series.
I was in Kawai showroom yesterday and tried by NV5s and NV10s by myself. Btw I am owner of CA99 and was thinking about switch to NV5s. So I tried NV5s and was totally disapointed about keyboard after CA99. And the funny thing is that Kawai made immitation of grand mechanic (I mean grand feel 3) so well, that it's more enjoyable to play on it instead of real upright mechanic of NV5s. I told that to consultant in showroom and he told me that that opinion shares professional pianists, who comparied those instruments.

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Originally Posted by EugeneJenia
And the funny thing is that Kawai made immitation of grand mechanic (I mean grand feel 3) so well, that it's more enjoyable to play on it instead of real upright mechanic of NV5s.

The priority of the NV5/NV10 action is to be realistic. It can only ever be as enjoyable to play as a real acoustic action is.

Digital actions have different priorities. Yes, realism is one of them, but it only needs to be "good enough". Basically at the level of ticking checkboxes: hammers, graded, escapement simulation, wood (!?). Enjoyable to play, best if noticable in the first few minutes in a piano shop, is certainly a very big priority, and of course price.

Last edited by pppianomarc; 09/20/21 07:06 AM.
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Under enjoyable I mean feelings as close as possible to grand millenim action on real kawai grands. For me it is standart for any mechanics - doesn't matter is it upright action of acoustic/hybrid or digital instrument with immitation.

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Originally Posted by EugeneJenia
I told that to consultant in showroom and he told me that that opinion shares professional pianists, who comparied those instruments.

I can assure you that-that opinion is not shared by professional pianists who compared those-those instruments.

This is called ‘consultant BS’; which is a commonly used tactic in where the consultant agrees with the customer on everything in order to establish a phony sense of congeniality.

If you don’t believe me, go back in there and tell him that your favorite colour is blue, and guess what his favorite colour will be? You guessed it, blue!

Now, that is not to say that your preference of the CA99 over the N5V is not valid, but it does not necessarily extend to the vast community of pianists.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by EugeneJenia
I told that to consultant in showroom and he told me that that opinion shares professional pianists, who comparied those instruments.

I can assure you that-that opinion is not shared by professional pianists who compared those-those instruments.

This is called ‘consultant BS’; which is a commonly used tactic in where the consultant agrees with the customer on everything in order to establish a phony sense of congeniality.

If you don’t believe me, go back in there and tell him that your favorite colour is blue, and guess what his favorite colour will be? You guessed it, blue!

Don't think so. It doesn't make sense, because I came there and said that I want to change my CA99 on NV5S. There's just no point for any consultant to agree with opinion about my experience with GF3 compared to NV5S action, when potentional client wants to buy their product which is x2 more expensive.

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Originally Posted by EugeneJenia
Under enjoyable I mean feelings as close as possible to grand millenim action on real kawai grands.

My main complaint about digital actions is "upweight". Play a piece with dense chords (4 or all 5 fingers down, best if in both hands). Play the piece very slowly, holding each chord for 2 seconds with your fingers. To me it feels as if the (digital) keys are constantly fighting back against my fingers. I'm loosing notes after a second of holding them down, except when I conciously tense (!) my fingers throughout the whole piece.

On a "real" action, I can use inertia, combined with a short moment of tension in the fingers, to bring the keys down, and little more than gravity to keep them down.

It's been a long time since I tried a GF action (GF2 in my case). Maybe it fares better than others in this test?

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It could be that he doesn’t have an NV5(S) in stock, and one bird in hand is better than two birds in the air?

Now, let’s assume that his favorite colour is indeed blue (just like yours), and that ‘he’, too, prefers the CA99 over the NV5(S); it is still a bit of a stretch to say that this is shared by professional pianists who compared those instruments; unless he can produce a document proving that ‘all’ professional pianists concurred on the CA99.

And I’m talking about verified signatures of the aforementioned professionals coupled with explicit not implied statements supporting his claim.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
It could be that he doesn’t have an NV5(S) in stock, and one bird in hand is better than two birds in the air?

Now, let’s assume that his favorite colour is indeed blue (just like yours), and that ‘he’, too, prefers the CA99 over the NV5(S); it is still a bit of a stretch to say that this is shared by professional pianists who compared those instruments; unless he can produce a document proving that ‘all’ professional pianists concurred on the CA99.

And I’m talking about verified signatures of the aforementioned professionals coupled with explicit not implied statements supporting his claim.


Don't want to participate this kind of theories. Only facts - it is official Kawai show room, and they don't sell instruments there, they just show them (all of them including real concert grands). NV5s was there and it was available for test. In that showroom often piano concerts and masterclasses are held, so there are a lot of pianists (including professionals) who test and play on those. So those are sharing their feelings about instruments.
I never mentioned that consultant told that "all" pianists said that, only those who played on those instruments.
Beside this, it doesn't matter - the main idea is that TS can test GF3 with CA99 too if he looking for soundboard + grand piano actions experience.

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Originally Posted by pppianomarc
My main complaint about digital actions is "upweight". Play a piece with dense chords (4 or all 5 fingers down, best if in both hands). Play the piece very slowly, holding each chord for 2 seconds with your fingers. To me it feels as if the (digital) keys are constantly fighting back against my fingers. I'm loosing notes after a second of holding them down, except when I conciously tense (!) my fingers throughout the whole piece.

On a "real" action, I can use inertia, combined with a short moment of tension in the fingers, to bring the keys down, and little more than gravity to keep them down.

I had a CA58 with a GFC action and what you are describing is exactly the reason for me to switch to an (upright) acoustic action. The inability to hold keys down with almost relaxed fingers. It may be worse on a GFC as compared to GF2 or 3 because the keys are bit shorter, making this effect even more pronounced near the fall board.

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