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Estonia Pianos
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yonion Offline OP
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Hi Guys, We tried a few pianos in a local piano store and took some videos of them. My son's hand is not very strong and cannot fully represent the real character of the piano and the feeling of the piano also greatly depend on which song was being played on them. Anyway, when we are back and we listen to these videos, it feels a little different than what we heard in person. My son cannot guess correctly which piano was being played in those videos. So I think it may be interesting to see to what extent one can recognize a piano based on casual playing and crappy recording. This is just for fun. I removed the answer part of the video for now. Later, I can post the whole video with answers in the end.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_jpvNSciOuhl1ZmFEAifQ_Nc8aphQrl/view?usp=sharing

Last edited by yonion; 09/19/21 08:26 AM.
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I'm ready to fall flat on my face. Here goes!

1 Estonia L168
2 Steinway B
3 Yamaha C2
4 Wilhelm Schimmel
5 Yamaha C3X
6 Estonia L190
7 Bösendorfer


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I would be lucky to get 1/7, but here it goes.

1. Schimmel
2. Boesendorfer
3. Estonia 168
4. Estonia 190
5. Yamaha c3x
6. Yamaha c2
7. steinway

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Thank you for playing! I need to listen later in the day when I am more wise awake.😩 I am not very good at listening to different brands by recordings as cygnusdei will tell you.(so do not expect too much)


My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love.In other words a hymn.That is all, but that is enough.Life goes on, despite pain and fear.Music is beautiful,life is beautiful.


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The question I have is - are any of these instruments in your price range, and if so, are you considering one of them at this point? smile


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1. Steinway B
2. Yamaha C3X
3. Estonia L190
4. Bosendorfer
5. Yamaha C2
6. Schimmel
7. Estonia L168


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I couldn't possibly hazard a guess.

Are any of these candidates for purchase?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

Last edited by P W Grey; 09/19/21 04:25 PM.

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Yes indeed - they all sound like good pianos to me - whatever they are.


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yonion Offline OP
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Thanks for playing. Let’s keep trying. There is no limit on how many times one can try.

Depending on how much loan I get, I can afford all of them. Of course, I won’t do that. The point is that the store has a lifetime 100% trade up policy, so they want us to know that there are plenty of room for upgrading any piano you bought there.

2/7
Originally Posted by brdwyguy
1. Steinway B
2. Yamaha C3X
3. Estonia L190
4. Bosendorfer
5. Yamaha C2
6. Schimmel
7. Estonia L168

1/7
Originally Posted by redfish1901
I would be lucky to get 1/7, but here it goes.

1. Schimmel
2. Boesendorfer
3. Estonia 168
4. Estonia 190
5. Yamaha c3x
6. Yamaha c2
7. steinway

2/7
Originally Posted by cygnusdei
I'm ready to fall flat on my face. Here goes!

1 Estonia L168
2 Steinway B
3 Yamaha C2
4 Wilhelm Schimmel
5 Yamaha C3X
6 Estonia L190
7 Bösendorfer

Last edited by yonion; 09/19/21 06:54 PM.
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2nd Guess:

1. Steinway B
2. Yamaha C2
3. Yamaha C3X
4. Bosendorfer
5. Estonia 168
6 Estonia 190
7 Schimmel


1961-1964: Lester or Emerson Upright
1969-1992: Westbrook Spinet
1991-2021: Schomacker Model A (1912) "Schoowie"
2021-Present: Steinway Model A (1912) "Amalia"

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Perhaps try some low bass notes, Perhaps some octaves, played louder,fuller sounds, just slowly, then middle range, the treble,right up the keyboard.Broken chords played slowly would be good too.We may hear more difference this way.
Just 2 or 3 pianos you are interested in would be easier to judge.


My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love.In other words a hymn.That is all, but that is enough.Life goes on, despite pain and fear.Music is beautiful,life is beautiful.


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yonion Offline OP
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I think I should stop torturing you. Here is the video with answers. If you don't want to see the answer, please use the link in the original post.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kfa6UaYYKoO_kd7vNBIpDQsDN8fqfs0-/view?usp=sharing

The taste for sound is very subjective.
I find both Yamaha too bright. I guess I am a bit sensitive to high pitch sound. C3x is obviously better than C2. But in the recording, the high pitch sound is gone. Both Yamahas sound fine.

I found Estonia's single notes very pleasant to listen to. The L168's sound is a bit small. L190 sounds brilliant but it is a bit pricy. And because my son can only hit soft on it due to lack of finger strength and when he plays fast, it make tenor notes sound short and muddy. While on Steinway, even if he hits lightly, you can still hear the nice colorful tone with sustain.

The factory rebuilt Steinway B and Bosendorfer both have a more balanced and colorful sound. My son said Bosendorfer's action is the best. It seems when he plays on it, the music is more colorful. It is easier to get quiet or get loud on it, even though he doesn't have much strength in his hands.

But again, this is just my feelings, I am a complete amateur.

We were just trying different pianos and haven't decided, I wanted to buy the Estonia L190, but my son doesn't like it.

Last edited by yonion; 09/19/21 10:14 PM.
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Yonion,

Your son has been playing on a Hamilton studio...yes?

If so, he is accustomed to a pretty light touch, even if his teacher has a grand with a fairly normal grand touch...he practices on the light touch.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


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So I guess I'm confused. All of the pianos identified in the video are much more expensive than the budget you gave us the impression you were trying to stay within in your original thread ($10 - $20K). Are you willing to go higher?


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Originally Posted by Carey
So I guess I'm confused. All of the pianos identified in the video are much more expensive than the budget you gave us the impression you were trying to stay within in your original thread ($10 - $20K). Are you willing to go higher?

I’m confused about this, too. If you went to play a bunch of pianos at a few showrooms to get some additional understanding of what different pianos can sound like and play like, I think that is very understandable and makes a lot of sense to me. But it seems like you’re actually considering one or more of these pianos (you mentioned the Estonia L190).

Have you adjusted your budget up?

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You also mentioned the trade up policy in one of the posts. I’m personally not super convinced that trade up policies should be a major consideration in decision making. If anything, I feel like these policies work to the advantage of the dealer —they will make you feel like you are locked into that dealer when you are ready to upgrade, and as I’ve read in a lot of other posts, you may not get as big a ‘discount’ on the piano you are upgrading to if your older piano is being traded in for 100% of the original sales price.

That said, there may be many reasons to continue to work with the same dealer when you decide to upgrade… if they have a selection of nice pianos that you like (as it seemed like this place did), if they prep the pianos well and give you good customer service, etc. I’m just not personally convinced the trade up policy should be a major point of consideration.

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Originally Posted by Sgisela
You also mentioned the trade up policy in one of the posts. I’m personally not super convinced that trade up policies should be a major consideration in decision making. If anything, I feel like these policies work to the advantage of the dealer —they will make you feel like you are locked into that dealer when you are ready to upgrade, and as I’ve read in a lot of other posts, you may not get as big a ‘discount’ on the piano you are upgrading to if your older piano is being traded in for 100% of the original sales price.
Although the piano you're upgrading to may be priced higher than usual, one is getting a lot more than what one would normally get on the piano that's traded in, especially if one trades in the piano within the first ten years. So it's probably still a good or at least reasonable overall deal for the buyer. One might only feel locked into the dealer if one realizes that the overall deal (taking into account both the better sale price for the traded in piano and possibly higher price for the upgrade) is better.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 09/20/21 08:09 AM.
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yonion Offline OP
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Yes, we did increased our budget. In the beginning, we were just thinking about trying a variety of new pianos and get to know what it should sounds like and plays like when the piano is new, then I found it is not that much more expensive to own a new one, especially if you think about the warranty and the resale and the inflation. I saw some pianos are probably sold at the same price as the price when they bought it just because the depreciation and inflation cancels. At the same time you have a newer instrument. (Of course, newer doesn't make it better, a high quality piano can last for a long time.) The biggest problem for the used pianos is that the choice is very limited. There isn't many quality used pianos around. Considering the time spent on searching for a good used instrument, it is not a bad idea to buy a new one especially when there is a good discount. So at last, we are open to buy both new and used. We end up buying a lightly used sold as new Boston 178PEII in the Steinway BSO sales event. It is a so-called new old stock and it was built in 2016 and was leased for some period of time and now sold as new, with 10 year warranty and 100% trade up policies plus the prep:regulation/voicing tuning, normally before delivery + an extra tuning. The piano looks very new except a few minor cosmetic issues and a (unpopular) walnut case, but we are fine with it. We got a good discount and the price is very competitive with Yamaha and Kawai pianos of the same size. We both like the sound, and my son likes the action. Sooo, there are deals in piano shop too, especially for pianos that are made in earlier years or has been used for rental etc. It also means that not all pianos bought new from piano stores are really new, and if you care about the year of built, make sure to ask. Thank you all for all the honest opinions. I found them very valuable.

Last edited by yonion; 09/22/21 11:33 AM.
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BRAVO !! Excellent choice. Congratulations !!!!

And personally, I like the walnut finish. smile


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Originally Posted by Carey
BRAVO !! Excellent choice. Congratulations !!!!

And personally, I like the walnut finish. smile

Personally, I like almost all finishes except black
PS. My piano is a black finish, I wasn’t willing to pass up the piano for color
whistle

Congrats!!!!

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