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found the news from my friend.
This means that Kawai also has Grand version of Aures as Yamaha CXX TA2.
And maybe new transducer system for soundboard.

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Holy moly!

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Here in Denmark it looks like they have a GL-30 model with Aures:

Kawai GL-30 AURES ATX4

But you could probably get a fully restored Bösendorfer 170 for the same price ... (although not with a silent system, and definitely not with transducers).


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I'm wondering how much these silencing systems with a mute rail affect the feel since I believe the escapement distance is increased to allow for the mute rail to be inserted and stop the hammers before they hit the strings, yet have a working escapement.

Last edited by CyberGene; 10/01/21 08:53 AM.

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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Here in Denmark it looks like they have a GL-30 model with Aures:

Kawai GL-30 AURES ATX4

Obviously, GX2 is Better than GL30, and latest 4 transducers Aures2 than old Aures.
I think we will have an alternative choice to Yamaha C2/3X TA2.


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I'm wondering how much these silencing systems with a mute real affect the feel since I believe the escapement distance is increased to allow for the mute rail to be inserted and stop the hammers before they hit the strings, yet have a working escapement.

Seems like Kawai uses a new silence system for GX2 AR2, named GP Touch Muting System--last pic.
It's different than old one in upright Aures1, maybe they improve the touching feel.


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Quote
I think we will have an alternative choice to Yamaha C2/3X TA2.

…though there’s a suggestion judging from
The Yamaha JP site that the TA2 is discontinued.

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Other Aures 2 models being released as well. Here’s a video of the K500 Aures 2:

Kawai K-500 Aures 2 Piano Demo

Now keeping my fingers crossed mine will be arriving soon at last!

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As with the grands, the touchscreen as been removed from the uprights.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I'm wondering how much these silencing systems with a mute rail affect the feel since I believe the escapement distance is increased to allow for the mute rail to be inserted and stop the hammers before they hit the strings, yet have a working escapement.

It depends whom you ask. There is a lot of controversy surrounding this topic. I looked into this since I wanted (and now have) a silent upright. The let-off distance is larger in my silent K300 than in a normal one. But I didn't notice differences in touch when played side by side in a store. However I am only an intermediate player.

Apparently you can set let-off smaller in a silent K300. It may be that factory regulation is on the safe side such that the likelihood of a hammer is ever touch a string (even after use-dependent changes in action) is low. People want the piano to be silent after all. I looked at my action and the mute rail and I think it can be set closer to the strings without causing problems, after which let-off distance can be decreased. There is a video on Youtube of a technician doing this on a K300 ATX3 and it seems to work well. In that video the let-off distance seems to be set at the normal 2-3 mm.

So investing in regulation work can minimize let-off differences. But this may take hours and time is money which is probably why on an 8K piano this is not done in the factory/by the dealer. And perhaps you run the risk that you'd have to adjust things later again so as to keep things optimal.

I think I am going to do this at some point, just for the feeling of having things optimized and perhaps it will improve the touch somewhat.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I'm wondering how much these silencing systems with a mute rail affect the feel since I believe the escapement distance is increased to allow for the mute rail to be inserted and stop the hammers before they hit the strings, yet have a working escapement.

Just as with a moderator felt, the distance is increased, which affects pianissimo play.

(Ironically to make the piano quieter it becomes louder.)


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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I'm wondering how much these silencing systems with a mute rail affect the feel since I believe the escapement distance is increased to allow for the mute rail to be inserted and stop the hammers before they hit the strings, yet have a working escapement.

Just as with a moderator felt, the distance is increased, which affects pianissimo play.

(Ironically to make the piano quieter it becomes louder.)

Indeed. The escapement in acoustic pianos is usually 1mm (increased for the bass hammers to allow the larger string vibration amplitudes to not touch the hammer) and the reason for such a short escapement distance is to be able to play pianissimo, because these low velocities should be able to reach the string without the natural deceleration of the hammer after escapement affecting the terminal velocity. The larger that distance, the higher the chance of pianissimos hitting the string with lower than expected velocity in a non-linear fashion. I guess that may not be a very pronounced effect anyway and only more experienced pianists would be able to notice it but still.


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Originally Posted by Monoch
Other Aures 2 models being released as well. Here’s a video of the K500 Aures 2:

Kawai K-500 Aures 2 Piano Demo

For me that video, like almost all Transacoustic/Aures demo videos fails to really demonstrate what makes these pianos awesome. I've posted this video before, but just in case others haven't seen it and are wondering why one might spend so much more on a TA/Aures than a standard piano please take a look.


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Not many, but there are some other videos that also demonstrate this, for example Stu Harrison's review of the K-300 Aures.

I posted the link to this video primarily for the differences between Aures (1) and Aures 2, not so much for the Aures / TA system in general. As far as I know, it's the only one that discusses the Aures 2 system on an upright so far. I'm particularly interested in the Aures 2 system since I've one on the way.

Last edited by Monoch; 10/02/21 09:09 AM. Reason: added last sentence
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I'm wondering how much these silencing systems with a mute rail affect the feel since I believe the escapement distance is increased to allow for the mute rail to be inserted and stop the hammers before they hit the strings, yet have a working escapement.

According to KawaiDon the new action oh the Kawai Grand silent pianos it supposed to match Yamahas silent system that has the quick release action that doesn’t effect touch at all. But so far there is not much information about it

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3159609/re-new-kawai-gl10-atx4.html#Post3159609

I know for a fact that Yamahas grand silent pianos feels amazing and i could not tell a difference. But my Kawai K-200 ATX3 (I’m renting it so will upgrade) is not as good.

Also amazing that Kawai decided to remove the touchscreen on the uprights… i looks like they listened to the feedback. smile

I’m on the market for a Grand piano with silent feature and was set on a Yamaha C1X HS2 but now the Kawai’s might be an option to.

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Originally Posted by Monoch
Not many, but there are some other videos that also demonstrate this, for example Stu Harrison's review of the K-300 Aures.

I posted the link to this video primarily for the differences between Aures (1) and Aures 2, not so much for the Aures / TA system in general. As far as I know, it's the only one that discusses the Aures 2 system on an upright so far. I'm particularly interested in the Aures 2 system since I've one on the way.

Thx for ur video link, and congratulations to AR2 ordering. K300 or K500?
I believe AR2 will be improved by new transducers instead of old onkyo high/low vibtone unit.
Wait ur experience.
If keyboard is OK with latest silence system, I believe there will be a SK AR2 grand version in addition to the GL/GX series.


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Originally Posted by Boboulus
I know for a fact that Yamahas grand silent pianos feels amazing and i could not tell a difference. But my Kawai K-200 ATX3 (I’m renting it so will upgrade) is not as good.

I tried some pianos recently and felt the same way about the ATX3 I tried. Haven't gotten a chance to try a Yamaha equivalent.

I really wanted to give the Novus 5 or 10 a try but those things are unavailable everywhere.

So I will wait another year, or two, or three.

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I guess maybe Yamaha use different muting system for their silent or TA upright and grand piano, as Kawai do on K-series and GX2 Aures2. Cuz my friend tried U1TA2 but feel not good enough for its keyboard, although she didn't compare with CXXTA2 grand.
And I think TA2 or Aures2 A/DP is a different type of product compared to hybrid DP likes NV.


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Originally Posted by robinlb
I guess maybe Yamaha use different muting system for their silent or TA upright and grand piano, as Kawai do on K-series and GX2 Aures2. Cuz my friend tried U1TA2 but feel not good enough for its keyboard, although she didn't compare with CXXTA2 grand.
And I think TA2 or Aures2 A/DP is a different type of product compared to hybrid DP likes NV.

Correct. It’s actually an addition to the grand action called quick release that makes it possible to regulate the same distance to string as regular grams piano. The Yamaha upright has same limitations as Kawai upright silent system as all other has. Previous version of Kawai grand silent system also had this limitation (and was also extremely loud… sounded like wooden hammers actually hit wood) but the new one is supposed to be as good as Yamaha. But not much info about it.

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There was an announcement news item on the Kawai global website for the Aures 2 models a few days ago, but they have removed it from the site again shortly after. Not sure why they removed it again, but it looks like more info from Kawai is imminent.

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