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Very interested in seeing what an Aures 2 system looks like.

From the pictures, the hammer sensor system looks very similar to what is on the ATX/NV-10. So likely there are no additional hammer sensors in play.

Might there be key sensors? Or more likely, a different stop rail to account for letoff height requirements and update SK-EX Rendering on the software side.


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In the UK the GX2 AR2 is listed at Bonners:
https://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/products/kawai-gx2-aures-2-180cm-grand-piano-polished-ebony

So a £5k premium over a standard GX2. I think the Yamaha premium on a C3X -> Transacoustic is around £7k.

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Originally Posted by Boboulus
Also amazing that Kawai decided to remove the touchscreen on the uprights... i looks like they listened to the feedback.

Well, this guarantees no sale to me.

An instrument of this size and price should contain the necessary controls to use its core features, rather than depend on unreliable third party tools and services that may or may not continue to exist in 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years.

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Originally Posted by pppianomarc
An instrument of this size and price should contain the necessary controls to use its core features, rather than depend on unreliable third party tools and services that may or may not continue to exist in 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years.

I agree with the sentiment but the harsh reality is the guarantee on a Transacoustic is 5 years (was just 2). So there’s no guarantee the electronics will work or be fixable after that.

This is why in this situation I’d rather they be separate/removable.

I think there’s a different debate as to whether you’re likely to get more longevity with a dedicated screen built by the manufacturer with all the pros and cons of that versus relying upon a tablet.

I’d hope that the aps aren’t tied to just one ecosystem and aren’t necessarily for the basic operation of the electronic parts.

The Bonners description suggests the Kawai warranty is 10 years which if true and applies to the electronics is a step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by dhts
Originally Posted by pppianomarc
An instrument of this size and price should contain the necessary controls to use its core features, rather than depend on unreliable third party tools and services that may or may not continue to exist in 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years.

I agree with the sentiment but the harsh reality is the guarantee on a Transacoustic is 5 years (was just 2). So there’s no guarantee the electronics will work or be fixable after that.

This is why in this situation I’d rather they be separate/removable.

I think there’s a different debate as to whether you’re likely to get more longevity with a dedicated screen built by the manufacturer with all the pros and cons of that versus relying upon a tablet.

I’d hope that the aps aren’t tied to just one ecosystem and aren’t necessarily for the basic operation of the electronic parts.

The Bonners description suggests the Kawai warranty is 10 years which if true and applies to the electronics is a step in the right direction.

Nu EU law a manufacturer need to guarantee that a product is reparable for 10 years meaning they have to make sure there are sore parts for that long. It’s not the same as a product warranty but just meaning the product should be able to work for that long. ☺️

I think the 10 year warranty is for the acoustic parts and the electronics has about 2 years… don’t remember exactly what my Kawai K-200 ATX3 has but it was separated like this.

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I think Kawai cancels the touch screen, and uses loss-less digital modification and external controller box on the grand piano. Even after 10 or 20 years of use, even if the electronic part is damaged, it can also have a complete acoustic piano to continue to use for us.
So for me, the ultimate and dream piano is SK3 AURES2 or 3...


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I'm wondering how much these silencing systems with a mute rail affect the feel since I believe the escapement distance is increased to allow for the mute rail to be inserted and stop the hammers before they hit the strings, yet have a working escapement.
In the Kawai upright and grand pianos featuring the previous ATX/Aures silent system, the impact was quite significant. In the uprights, the overall key travel is reduced in both silent and acoustic modes, even with silent system disabled. This means that playing a silent upright in acoustic mode is not the same as playing a similar upright without silent system. This can be easily checked if you go to a showroom and play for example a K500 upright without silent system and a K500 ATX/Aures. The difference will of course depend on how properly regulated the piano has been, but I the Kawai uprights (and other brands as well) I have checked in showrooms had major differences to their acoustic only counterparts.

With the Kawai silent grand pianos, the difference is more subtle in acoustic mode. There is still a difference compared to a grand without silent system, but it is not as noticeable as with the uprights. However, in silent mode, the key travel is reduced and the overall feeling is quite different (for example, the resistance at the escapement point is not noticeable).

As far as I know, only the Yamaha grand pianos with SH/SH2 silent overcome this limitation (note: Yamaha only uses this system in grand pianos, not in uprights). Yamaha call this mechanism "Quick Escape". It physically changes the geometry of the action and allows for separate regulation in acoustic and silent modes. The result is that the regulation in acoustic mode is exactly the same as in a piano without silent system and the regulation in silent mode feels almost the same as in acoustic mode. Hopefully, Kawai has done more than just a software/sound engine update and introduced a similar mechanism in this new version of their silent system.

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Originally Posted by Boboulus
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I'm wondering how much these silencing systems with a mute rail affect the feel since I believe the escapement distance is increased to allow for the mute rail to be inserted and stop the hammers before they hit the strings, yet have a working escapement.

According to KawaiDon the new action oh the Kawai Grand silent pianos it supposed to match Yamahas silent system that has the quick release action that doesn’t effect touch at all. But so far there is not much information about it (...)

This would be excellent news and a game changer.

Getting a Kawai upright with silent system makes sense because all other model will display the same limitation. It can be minimized to some extent by proper installation and regulation at the factory, but, afaik, only higher tier models (e.g. Bechstein and Schimmel Konzert uprights) actually try do it.

However, in my opinion, it makes no sense getting a Kawai grand with silent system due to negative impact of the silent system on the action in acoustic mode. So far, the only realistic option is a Yamaha grand with SH/SH2 system and the underlying Quick Escape mechanism.

But it is quite strange that pianos with ATX4/Aures system have been available in stores for ~2 months and there is no information whatsoever from Kawai. If Kawai introduced something similar to Yamaha's Quick Escape, this would be a major change. And if they apply such a system to the uprights as well they could have a significant market advantage. Let's see.

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Originally Posted by robinlb
I think Kawai cancels the touch screen, and uses loss-less digital modification and external controller box on the grand piano. Even after 10 or 20 years of use, even if the electronic part is damaged, it can also have a complete acoustic piano to continue to use for us.
So for me, the ultimate and dream piano is SK3 AURES2 or 3...
The system you are describing is exactly what Yamaha did with the SH system over a decade ago... so you can get a CX3 or S3X SH2 as alternative ;-)

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Originally Posted by acdp
But it is quite strange that pianos with ATX4/Aures system have been available in stores for ~2 months and there is no information whatsoever from Kawai.

They are not really available. So far they are only listed on shop’s websites, but I’ve not seen a single ATX4/Aures2 model anywhere actually available in stock ready to be delivered, and I’ve been looking.

But regardless, the models being listed would be reason enough for Kawai to make an official announcement you’d expect.

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Originally Posted by Monoch
Originally Posted by acdp
But it is quite strange that pianos with ATX4/Aures system have been available in stores for ~2 months and there is no information whatsoever from Kawai.

They are not really available. So far they are only listed on shop’s websites, but I’ve not seen a single ATX4/Aures2 model anywhere actually available in stock ready to be delivered, and I’ve been looking.

But regardless, the models being listed would be reason enough for Kawai to make an official announcement you’d expect.
They have been listed for 1-2 months. However, in the last weeks a few online stores (at least in Germany) state they have the Kawai ATX4 in stock with a delivery date of 3-4 days. Other stores show an expected delivery date of 2-3 weeks.

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Originally Posted by acdp
The system you are describing is exactly what Yamaha did with the SH system over a decade ago... so you can get a CX3 or S3X SH2 as alternative ;-)

I personally have no need or interest in silent pianos, no matter it's ATX4 or SH2.
I am interested in soundboard transducers on Acoustic Grand, and through it to playback of external VSTs. So only focus on TA2 or Aures2 grand on SXX or SK in future. It represents a trend toward digital add-ons for acoustic pianos

Last edited by robinlb; 10/05/21 11:40 AM.

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Originally Posted by acdp
Originally Posted by Boboulus
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I'm wondering how much these silencing systems with a mute rail affect the feel since I believe the escapement distance is increased to allow for the mute rail to be inserted and stop the hammers before they hit the strings, yet have a working escapement.

According to KawaiDon the new action oh the Kawai Grand silent pianos it supposed to match Yamahas silent system that has the quick release action that doesn’t effect touch at all. But so far there is not much information about it (...)

This would be excellent news and a game changer.

Getting a Kawai upright with silent system makes sense because all other model will display the same limitation. It can be minimized to some extent by proper installation and regulation at the factory, but, afaik, only higher tier models (e.g. Bechstein and Schimmel Konzert uprights) actually try do it.

However, in my opinion, it makes no sense getting a Kawai grand with silent system due to negative impact of the silent system on the action in acoustic mode. So far, the only realistic option is a Yamaha grand with SH/SH2 system and the underlying Quick Escape mechanism.

But it is quite strange that pianos with ATX4/Aures system have been available in stores for ~2 months and there is no information whatsoever from Kawai. If Kawai introduced something similar to Yamaha's Quick Escape, this would be a major change. And if they apply such a system to the uprights as well they could have a significant market advantage. Let's see.

I had decided for a Yamaha grand with SH2 because of just this reason. But now Kawai is an option to if this really is true. And second factor for me is how laud the actual stoping mechanism is… i tried the GL 10 ATX2 and it was extremely load… so loud i would not be able to use the silent feature at home even in day time. The Yamaha CX1 HS2 is very quite… its about the same kind of sound that my Yamaha P-515 produced.

The only video reviewing the GL30 ATX4 (linked in this thread) say it’s quite but hard to trust this.

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I’m reading this on Bonners website

https://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/prod...o-polished-ebony-with-free-concert-stool

“The GL30 ATX4 features a new and improved hammer stop rail system, allowing the hammer's escapement from the strings to be identical when in muting mode as in acoustic mode. This means there is no compromise in the quality of touch when playing digitally using headphones.”

This doesn’t mean that the escapement is similar as a non silent grand piano so it doesn’t mean anything. I think this is the case with most silant piano to. Hope there will be more information about the new stop rail system and if it really is like KawaiDon says. Fingers crossed smile

Last edited by Boboulus; 10/06/21 02:20 PM.
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by NordWest - 08/10/22 11:19 PM
Are these George Winston sheet music books legit?
by ShiroKuro - 08/10/22 10:41 PM
How old do you think this piano is? (from hammer felt wear)
by 88Key_PianoPlayer - 08/10/22 09:20 PM
what might exist (a keyboard view)?
by keystring - 08/10/22 05:49 PM
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